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Posts: 347
Location: Reno, NV | This 1771LX has been a real rollercoaster as far as market value goes. Seems to be at an all time low at $699 at MF. Once was $1149 a few weeks ago. Kinda makes me wonder what guitars are really worth, and how I may be getting suckered at any point in time when buying one. This makes the entire industry seem shady to me. How much markup is typical on guitars. 100%? ...or more? There are no rules in the guitar game huh? ...just what he market will bear? |
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Posts: 1234
Location: Tidal Mudflats of Virginia | IMHO they are worth what you are willing to pay for them. Is there mark up? of course, otherwise how would music stores stay in business. Does an instrument depreciate as soon as you buy it? depends on quantity made and popularity of the model. They definitely aren't as bad as a new car that depreciates 50% as soon as you drive it off the lot, that's for sure.
I bought a 1778-RF LX a couple years ago for $1600, it was one of the early ones with the full bowl paint and the OP-PRO. I've since seen them go as low as $699 at MF and on the bay as low as $400 used. Does this make mine worth any less than what I paid for it? not to me, it was a model I liked and I don't have any intention of getting selling it. For insurance purposes, it's still worth $1,600 because of the receipt in hand.
I don't recommend trying to use the guitar buy & sell market to make some coinage, I think you lose in the end.
Tim |
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Posts: 2711
Location: Vernon CT | I agree 100% with Tim. A Guitar is definitely
worth what YOU will pay for it. If you play and like it, you may be willing to pay more for it and walk out the store as opposed to Buying on line for less and waiting for it. I am learning to not buy new anymore. You can get some quality guitars in excellent shape for a lot less used as opposed to buying at a "store" new. The sound boards have opened up and the tone is great. |
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Posts: 29
Location: Kennesaw, GA | Yak,
Your question is interesting, because a guitar is worth what the market will bring for it. To gauge your 1771, I would suggest benchmarking off of the average retail price by call checking the major sellers. I recently went on a quest for a classical, and called the major sellers for a quote for a new item. They all were within $150 of each other. If you are in a store with cash in hand (and not a credit card or check), you may cut a better deal with the sales staff. Regarding shopping in other areas, ebay is just one way to gauge the perceived value (actually, a fairly decent gauge at that). You will ultimately pay what you want to pay, and all retail is shady in that profit margins are easily abused; it almost becomes a philosophical question of what is an honest price. There is much to cover in pricing, as many costs are factored in the entire production process. A $1500 guitar may only cost $350 in materials and labor to make, or it may cost more (factors such as wood, labor, transportation, etc will always be dynamic). "Costs" is an extensive area and has many facets, so I guess there is no simple answer to your question. If you find a product you like, and it fulfills your qualifications for value, then get as many of that kind as you can. To jump back to my classical hunt from a few months back, I have guesstimated that most dealers cost on a classical selling for $1599 was around $1100. That's a rough guess, so 30% might be a working number. And, market value may not reflect YOUR value. With the economic situation we are presently in, and with how our fiat money system operates, the science of economics is almost moot. In my ramblings here, I googled the 1771: Guitar Center lists the MSRP as $1649, and is selling it for $699 (a 58% markdown); this is slightly peculiar, but there could just be an effort to move this specific model or batch out of inventory, to make room for another type of inventory. And, with Ovation being recently sold to Fender, I will cross my fingers that we can still have available the quality USA made Ovations that we still have now. Others in this forum may be able to add/qualify this info. |
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Posts: 6996
Location: Jet City | Tim, what does the "RF" stand for on that LX? |
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Posts: 1234
Location: Tidal Mudflats of Virginia | Red Flame |
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Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | Another thread (Al's) talks about discounting out inventory, Balladeers going to Korea. The 1771LX is the Standard Balladeer. Might be why it is offered at $699. Their loss is your gain.
Fair difference in the 1777LX or the 1778LX...not sure if you will see discounts on these upgraded models. Might want to talk to Al. |
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Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Money, time period, desired product availability and the severity of the 'itch/GAS' are all unpredictable factors. Just as in the 'puter world, buy what you want for the least amount possible at the time AND DON"T LOOK BACK!  |
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Posts: 4833
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | BTW: profit is not a dirty word. It is the reason we in the 'western world' have the ridiculously high standard of living we enjoy. (yes, even those of us living in a dark basement suite.)
You are not required to pay the price someone asks for their property, nor are they required to sell to you at the price you would prefer. Worship that ideal and fear the alternative....
(thus endeth the lesson.....  ) |
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Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Most small shops pay about half the list price when they buy from the distributor. Larger places, like "what's their name", buy in huge lots, and pay much less. That's why they can still make money selling for 58% of list. I know some small shops who charge full list price, and then there are places like mine, who charge enough to make a small profit, but win the loyalty of their customers. As far as used guitars, I find the info on Harmony Central to be of great use. E-bay doesn't really help that much, because you never really know the condition of guitar. I've heard some horror stories about e-bay guitars.But in the long run, as most have posted before me, all that really matters when buying, is what YOU think it's worth. And when selling, it's worth whatever the buyer is willing to pay. |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Just buy your stuff from Al and you don't have to worry about getting ripped off. |
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Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by John B:
Just buy your stuff from Al and you don't have to worry about getting ripped off. You're still getting ripped off, it's just that there's comfort in knowing the perpetrator ... just kidding.
Thsi is an interesting thread. I read all the way back at the top someone mentioned 100% markup. WOW, in your dreams. I don't know details but I would guess the markup is more like 10-15% on instruments. I know my local shop says he makes a (meager) living selling pics, strings and capos. He has to stock guitars just to bring people in the store.
My only advice, having bought numerous new and used guitars is to ignore the market, ignore what it "costs" and ignore any speculation of how little or how much it mighgt be worth in the future. Just buy with your "gut" and if the guitar moves you and you've got the money, then do it.
If you've got $1500. and want to buy a guitar as an "investment", slap yourself in the face and go buy a 5 year CD at 5.5%
Dave |
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Posts: 3084
Location: Brisbane Australia | Everything is an "investment"
It's only the passage of time that tells you whether it's good or bad.
Bearing in mind that could be 10 years or 30 seconds.
AJ |
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Posts: 2150
Location: Orlando, FL | The used guitar market especially with Ovations fluctuates so much that todays great deal may be way over priced tomorrow.
I always try to get whatever deal I can get on what I really want and then stop looking at prices. At that point it doesn't matter what they are going for, I have mine and I'm happy with it.
If I buy a guitar I love, in 5 days, 5 months or 5 years, it doesn't matter that I could have gotten it for $100 bucks cheaper or $500! |
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Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Other then what you can afford to pay, the purchase of something as personal as a guitar should never be soley based on logic and monatary investment.
The only dividends you need to put any value on are the intangable things like joy, contentment, and time well spent.
Or in other words... what Dave said. |
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Posts: 665
Location: Tychy, Poland | Tupperware: You could buy a $1500 guitar as an investment. Buy it, send it to Poland, pay taxes + toll (about $500 of additional expenses) and then sell it here for $2500-$3000.
Last prices of Ovations on allegro.pl (biggest polish auction portal):
1778T - 3200 zl = 1400 USD
1986 collectors 6 string - 2900 zl = 1270 usd
1773LX - 3999 zl = 1750 usd
1867 legend - 2299 zl = 1010 usd
6778LX elite - 3500 zl = 1535 usd
1769 ADII - 6100 zl = 2675 usd
probably it'd be a good business to someone to import guitars here.
BTW. Martin "Eric CLapton" 0028 went for 11900 zl = 5220 usd USED! |
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Location: Brisbane Australia | Sounds like a business opportunity |
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Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | That's if what you looking for is a business opportunity.
A business the changes a guitar from something full of mystery and contentment into a soulless commodity whos only purpose is to make a buck. |
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Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | Is that really you, Brad? So pessimistic. I quit trying to buy anything as an investment. I put all my retirement planning into the hands of experts after I failed at picking stocks. The experts have lost enough in the past couple months that I will now get to work a few more years to replace it.
Oh well. I decided this weekend that working isn't as bad as staying home and doing chores. |
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Posts: 665
Location: Tychy, Poland | Mark, if you didn't withdraw your money from stock exchange, you should be able to regain what you've lost with profit. |
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Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by Designzilla:
The used guitar market especially with Ovations fluctuates so much that todays great deal may be way over priced tomorrow.
I always try to get whatever deal I can get on what I really want and then stop looking at prices. At that point it doesn't matter what they are going for, I have mine and I'm happy with it.
If I buy a guitar I love, in 5 days, 5 months or 5 years, it doesn't matter that I could have gotten it for $100 bucks cheaper or $500! I paid more for my use Stealth Black T than they are charging for a new one now.
Am I pissed? :mad: Sure. Do I still Love my Guitar? Yes.
Am I gonna buy a New one, and eBarf the one I got? That is an "Idea" :rolleyes: ...
Every Guitar that I have gotten, I have seen for less (and more) after the purchase.
A Guitar is an investment! You invest your time, get your enjoyment, then maybe pass it on...
I think that is acceptable! |
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March 2005
Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | Originally posted by LBJ:
Mark, if you didn't withdraw your money from stock exchange, you should be able to regain what you've lost with profit. I know. It's all still in there. Fortunately, I did not cash in when it dropped a few years ago and invest in real estate, like many people did. It's just that after 30 years I am not sure I can wait until the next peak to start drawing it out. |
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December 2004
Posts: 2150
Location: Orlando, FL | I think the only guitar I ever got a "great deal" on was my 65 Gibson Melody Maker I got for $35 at a garage sale back in the 70s. Other than that I think I have mostly paid a fair price or overpaid a couple of times to get what I wanted on eBay.
Buy what you want for what you are willing to pay, then forget about it! |
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February 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: Warren,Pa. | Anyone remember when the factory got all their CNC machines in place and started calling the new guitars that came from them "LX"?
For the next 6-8 months you couldn't interest anyone in an "old" style K-Bar Ovation. Everyone was on a feeding frenzy for the new guitars.
It's all about what we, "the market", want at the time.
John <>{ |
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What are guitars really worth...?
