|
|
Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3615
Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Poise. Bob's still a class act. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 3111
Location: Nashville TN. | Originally posted by 2ifbyC:
Originally posted by PEZ:
Terry stop My personal main concern is the Baker Act!  |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 3111
Location: Nashville TN. | Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
Originally posted by PEZ:
You are not arrested when taken in to get id on you. You are detained.
None of this new.
I did the Hartford Citizens Police Academy. When you are "Detained" you cannot Leave!
But if you are "Arrested" you have Rights.
If you are detained, they do not need cause.
If you are arrested, there must be a reason. And you have a right to counsel and you have a right to Bail.
By saying that they must hold you until they verify your identity they are in fact telling you that you Must have an ID.
So they have defacto instituted a mandatory ID program. Even though it is against the will of the People and the Law.
The fact that the Hartford Police Academy sez that this is lawful gives me no solace. The Police also say that Tasers are not deadly force, even though dozens have died.
In 2002 I was held in Boulder, Colorado for 27 days cuz I did not have ID and they wanted an excuse to hold me. I was not arrested, I was detained. It took a writ of Habeas Corpus to get me out, filed 'pro se' (by myself) with the help of other inmates held for Major Felonies (Murder, Armed Robbery) that I was housed with. Without their help, I would have been held without any recourse to the courts. A fellow inmate gave my writ to his lawyer who filed it, cuz I had no access to the court. Every day I asked for a court date and was told that I did not have one cuz I was not being held for a charge.
The Police also think that it was alright to arrest Professor Gates on his own doorstep.
Had Bob Dylan not been "Bob Dylan", and just some innocent citizen, he would still be in jail. They thought that he was a homeless person, and were gonna lock his butt away.
This stuff happens every day... Every Hour! We only hear about it when the screw-up and get someone famous. They arrest, detain, lock-up, haul-away hundreds of people nationwide everyday. But nobody hears about it cuz they are nobody.
[As to my case in Boulder, they found me guilty of giving false information to a police officer, although I did not. But I had a choice of accepting that, or waiting another 30 days for a court date. It was 'Wrong'... But it is what I had to do to get my Freedom.]
NO drivers licence?
No Social Security number?
No provable address?
It sounds like did not cooperate and the refusal got ya charges.
Failing to propererly ID yearself is a crime in most jurisdictions.
You likely were arrested when you failed to cooperate. You proably were not detained for more than a couple days max.
Requirering you to identify yourself is not against the law. You are correct that there is no national ID card.
The practice of a Terry stop goes back decades before the SCOTUS case.
It was challenged and up held by a very liberal court with only 1 decent. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4049
Location: Utah | Terry stop does require some reasonable suspicion or probable cause. A Terry stop does allow the officer to search your person in the name of officer safety. Not every contact with an officer rises to Terry standards, such as a simple traffic stop with no other complications.
I don't believe that it is generally a legal requirement that a person carry identification, but it is required that you provide your name to an officer if asked.
Because of the residents' calls about a suspicious person, the police had every right to investigate and contact him to see what he was up to. It does seem odd that Mr. Dylan would go out without any form of ID or his wallet.
It is rare that I don't have need to carry ID, usually some form of government issued license or permit. Even when going for a mountain bike ride I will carry my medical insurance card and my drivers license just in case someone needs to identify my unconscious body or I need to get some emergency care.
I was instructed by a lawyer to cooperate with an officer until the officer started on a fishing expedition. At that point he said to ask if I was being detained of if I was free to leave. Mr. Dylan apparently did not ask that question so we don't know if the officer intended to detain him or if Mr. Dylan was cooperating beyond what the officer could demand.
The one time we saw Dylan in concert he was stoned, belligerent, and ended the concert quite early when a fan walked to the front of the stage to take his picture during a song. I have not been a fan since. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 1851
Location: Newington, CT | Interesting posts...VERY tenuous link to music, but interesting posts. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Great story. It doesn't say if the officer took him back to the neighborhood. His handlers probably boo-hooed the idea. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | In NYC my wife and I had both been detained for riding our bicycles in the subway. My wife started arguing with the police officer, there's no signs blah blah blah. I instantly realized where this was going, and suggested that she question us separately, and verify the information right there instead of hauling us anywhere. we verified the info, and fortunately for us, some other bicyclist came riding by and she, yes it was woman, let us go.
If you can't think on your feet, it ain't so easy to get away from the police.
Other times I was taking a short cut on my bike and a beat cop shouted at me to stop. I just waived and kept going, but that's another story. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | well I think in this instance dylan would have been labeled a "person of interest"....
whatever the hell that means.
I think I am going to have my SS # tatooed to my butt so I can just drop my drawers for my ID |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Officer- "Central, I have a person of interest that just dropped his drawers when asked for an ID!"
Central- "... and?"
Officer- "Well, since both ends match, I just need you to run a SSAN."
 |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2008
Posts: 489
| Originally posted by an4340:
In NYC my wife and I had both been detained for riding our bicycles in the subway. Watch out for that third rail. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2009
Posts: 335
Location: Reisterstown, Maryland | Originally posted by alpep:
I think I am going to have my SS # tatooed to my butt so I can just drop my drawers for my ID As long as it's cute, works for me. :eek:
Anita
Retired Police |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12759
Location: Boise, Idaho | If I would have done that a few years ago, I wonder if the numbers would have grown bigger as I did.
Frankly, I don't think it would be a good idea, Al, although I tried to immediately erase the image from my mind, until Anita brought it back up. Anita, if it's as hairy as his face, you probably wouldn't be able to find the SS number. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | We were just riding thru the train station, from one end to the other cause it was pretty big and there were no other people. Except the female cop who wanted to show she was in charge. All in all I thought it was rediculous.
Funny thing is I know cops saw me and friends in college taking a whiz on the subway platform and they did nothing. It's much easier to bully an innocent couple, then a mob of drunken white boys. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2009
Posts: 416
Location: On the Coast - Halfway between SF & OR | Originally posted by Ken C:
What I find depressing about this story is the idea that, in some neighbourhoods, an old geezer simply taking a walk, getting caught in the rain and - god forbid... gazing at a house with a 'For Sale' sign outside it - is regarded as automatically suspicious and/or threatening. :rolleyes: Very sad. Ken, I can't agree enough!
I would also like to add that it's an equally sorry state when folks will call the police instead of getting off their rears, walking outside, and talking to someone who seems out of place. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | by PEZ:
Why would not simply not provide a source to iD yourself?
NO drivers licence?
No Social Security number?
No provable address?
It sounds like did not cooperate and the refusal got ya charges.
Failing to propererly ID yearself is a crime in most jurisdictions.
You likely were arrested when you failed to cooperate. You proably were not detained for more than a couple days max.
First... I am not allowed to drive. I was homeless. My wallet was stolen. My provable address was three states away. It is very difficult to get ID without first having ID. A Social Security Card is Not ID, sez so right on it.
Second... I was 'detained' when I called the police myself, to report a dead body in the creek.
Third... I was held for 27 days, are you implying that I wasn't?
I think that because the nice policeman let you ride in the car and play with the siren, you have a skewed perspective about the way police deal with their "undesirables". |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Whoops, did we take a wrong off ramp? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2009
Posts: 416
Location: On the Coast - Halfway between SF & OR | Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
you have a skewed perspective about the way police deal with their "undesirables". I respect the work police do, but I too had to reset my perspective a few years back.
I had worked as a "contracted" training instructor for the DOD for about 10 years and upon moving back to CONUS, the rural community here was short of money and needed help in the sheriff's department so I thought going into law enforcement may be a good fit for me.
I spent the next year going thru a POST course but in the end found that my idea of law enforcement was more in tune with TV's Andy Taylor while the instructors and other students were more of the TV "Cops" mentality.
Everyone seemed to be a potential "bad guy" (their term) that you shouldn't trust unless you proved them innocent.
After passing the course, I thought I would volunteer with the sheriff's dept. just to get a true idea of how they saw things, but found the mentality to be the same as in the class. I simply wasn't a good "fit".
I understand the need to be aware of your surroundings and the potential risk that may posed, but what happened to the concept of innocent until PROVEN guilty? |
|
| |
Bob Dylan questioned
