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Location: SoCal | I was looking at the videos of at the youtube website
OvationGuitars
and started thinking about something. A lot of the professionals that are featured in the promo videos (gotta scroll down to see the videos -- they're at the bottom of the list on the right) and I'd say that more than half of them are playing celebs or less expensive USA built Ovations. Only a few are playing guitars that sell for over a grand.
It's my understanding that when Charlie Kaman was developing Ovation guitars, his goal was to make a good workingman's guitar at a great price. Yeah, sound was very important, but the people who were buying these guitars were people who were using them. Not buying them to put on the wall and add to collections.
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to transfer the bulk of manufacturing to Asia. Most of the guitars Ovation builds and sells are less than $1000. And despite the popularity of Taylor and others, a lot of people buy these guitars.
Of the expensive Ovations and Adamii,sometimes I think that this group and the Asian collectors are really the only ones who value them for more than just being a really good tool. Which brings up a question of "how big a market are we"? Certainly not so big that we couldn't be handled by a custom shop.
This may sound like I'm ripping Ovations and Adamii, but the reality is that they are great tools for the gigging musician (I would imagine that that's a huge market which dawrf's the superstar market everybody looks at). And while we are a bit bummed that manufacturing is going overseas (or already there), it's actually a statement of success for the company -- that Charlie's dream was a correct one. |
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Location: south east Michigan | I see your point.... but I also see some spin being applied to a bad situation. |
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Location: SoCal | Maybe, but watch the videos. It's amazing how people who can afford really nice O's & A's, rave about the cheap models..... |
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Location: NJ | martin
breedlove
and maybe some others all make a USA build guitar for under 1K |
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Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | Good point Al, but they're probably doing it just to have something to do with their scrap materials. (: |
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Location: SoCal | If the guitars from Asia are good and they sell well, then what's wrong with maximizing profit? And let's not forget that the people in CT are working.... |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | But the folks in Tacoma and Rhode Island are not. |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Which constitutes a continuing need for these fora.
Gas on , Ladies & Gentlemen- our opinions, and a coupla custom orders, will get a round of drinks for The Wizards. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Originally posted by alpep:
martin
breedlove
and maybe some others all make a USA build guitar for under 1K While this may be true.. they certainly aren't for the "working man" or aren't touted that way. You would not generally take either to the beach, or outdoors, or wherever on a general basis and have it last the 10, 20, or 30 years that Celebrity or Ovation imports will last for a fraction of the price.
Is a $600-ish import built like, or sound like, a top or near top of the line Ovation? No, which is why it is $600-ish. But it will sound nice, and even similar to it's high-end buddy in many cases... and it will play well, and last for many years. Now lets look at a $600 wood box, from anyone, made anywhere. The sheer fact that it's wood puts a damper on the whole quality / durability argument. Go ahead... throw stones at me. It's my opinion.
For most other guitar makers "the Sound" is their PRIMARY or nearly ONLY focus along with figuring out how to sell them. That's fine for them. For Ovation it's SOUND AND QUALITY AND PRICE... and as we have seen and "discussed 'till we're disgusted" Ovation really doesn't need to "market" themselves to sell.
I with MWoody on this. I'm glad to see Fender taking this direction for now. They are sinking money into real marketing with the roadshow. More musicians are popping up being seen playing Ovations. I believe if this keeps up, the "market" will drive the reintroduction of "production line" models made in the USA.
In the mean time, there truly is a guitar for everyone. Want a USA Made one.. fine, just call and they'll build it for you, completely to your spec, for a reasonable price. Need a decent gigging guitar, student guitar, travel, beater, whatever... All available, all at a reasonable price, all will generally out-sound, and outlast any other guitar for up to twice it's price out there. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
I with MWoody on this. Don't you mean Paul Moody? |
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Location: SoCal | Originally posted by Slipkid:
Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
I with MWoody on this. Don't you mean Paul Moody? |
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Location: closely held secret | ...most of which aren't appropriate for a 'family friendly' forum. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Whoops... sorry about that... LOL !!!! My apologies to BOTH of you depending on the perspective... LOL !!!
I scrolled up real quick to see how the originator was and could have sworn I saw MWoody.. but Paul it is... :)
Mr. Ovation...
(the old senile one) |
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Location: NJ | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
Originally posted by alpep:
martin
breedlove
and maybe some others all make a USA build guitar for under 1K While this may be true.. they certainly aren't for the "working man" or aren't touted that way. You would not generally take either to the beach, or outdoors, or wherever on a general basis and have it last the 10, 20, or 30 years that Celebrity or Ovation imports will last for a fraction of the price.
Is a $600-ish import built like, or sound like, a top or near top of the line Ovation? No, which is why it is $600-ish. But it will sound nice, and even similar to it's high-end buddy in many cases... and it will play well, and last for many years. Now lets look at a $600 wood box, from anyone, made anywhere. The sheer fact that it's wood puts a damper on the whole quality / durability argument. Go ahead... throw stones at me. It's my opinion.
For most other guitar makers "the Sound" is their PRIMARY or nearly ONLY focus along with figuring out how to sell them. That's fine for them. For Ovation it's SOUND AND QUALITY AND PRICE... and as we have seen and "discussed 'till we're disgusted" Ovation really doesn't need to "market" themselves to sell.
I with MWoody on this. I'm glad to see Fender taking this direction for now. They are sinking money into real marketing with the roadshow. More musicians are popping up being seen playing Ovations. I believe if this keeps up, the "market" will drive the reintroduction of "production line" models made in the USA.
In the mean time, there truly is a guitar for everyone. Want a USA Made one.. fine, just call and they'll build it for you, completely to your spec, for a reasonable price. Need a decent gigging guitar, student guitar, travel, beater, whatever... All available, all at a reasonable price, all will generally out-sound, and outlast any other guitar for up to twice it's price out there.
these guitars are absolutely meant as working man entry level USA built instruments |
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Location: NJ | Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
But the folks in Tacoma and Rhode Island are not. there has not been a factory in rhode island for a number of years.
and I am sure the folks there were given the opportunity to relocate to corona just like the tacoma folks were given the opportunity to move to new hartford.
not always an option but more than some companies offer |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | Given Charlies passion for building and marketing in the Aero industry first and the guitar industry next, t seems to me that even a casual look into these industries indicate a desire by him to being made in America...of course, in order to stay competitive, business is all about the bottom line and that is exactly what is happening here...it is what it is...still seems a shame to me...ymm |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Yeah... If people in your country don't have jobs to afford your guitars, all that bottom-line in manufacturing is useless. I cannot speak for Charlie's motivations... But there comes a time when creating a company that is also a community, and providing jobs and Pride in your own country is more important the just Profits. How much money do you really need. Buying companies to ship manufacturing overseas does not help your own country. But since all the corporate culture thinks of is making more money than their competitors, they won't understand such concerns.
Speaking of Tools, I don't think many Stanley Tools are made in New Britain, CT any longer either. |
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Location: closely held secret | Shame on all those evil, evil companies trying to make a profit. Even the president doesn't seem to be able to stop them. Though God knows he's trying. |
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Location: SoCal | Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
Yeah... If people in your country don't have jobs to afford your guitars, all that bottom-line in manufacturing is useless. I cannot speak for Charlie's motivations... But there comes a time when creating a company that is also a community, and providing jobs and Pride in your own country is more important the just Profits. How much money do you really need. Buying companies to ship manufacturing overseas does not help your own country. But since all the corporate culture thinks of is making more money than their competitors, they won't understand such concerns.
Speaking of Tools, I don't think many Stanley Tools are made in New Britain, CT any longer either. You know Arthur, this is a really stupid comment. There's nothing wrong with a company being profitable. All the people who work for the company, around the freakin' world, have jobs. The shareholders of the company receives value for their investment. The communities in which the company operates benefit from people living there with jobs who can pay taxes and shop in those communities. People with jobs means less money going out in unemployment and more money coming in in tax revenues.
And if to stay profitable, some of those jobs need to go overseas, then so be it. Would you prefer the company to go out of business because it's not profitable? Hell, let's all go on unemployment and let the government take care of us.
As a small business owner I can tell you that it's government rules and regulations which make it damn difficult to do business in this country. You don't want jobs to go overseas, then tell the government to ease up on all the costs they impose that are associated with hiring employees. And just wait til you see all the new paperwork that Obamacare is going to require.
Miles, go ahead and shut this thread down if you want. I don't need anymore stupid asshole comments like the one above on a thread I started which was only meant to discuss the pros and cons of Ovations. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Well put Sleepy Bones Lee. |
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Ovations as tools
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