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Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4081
Location: Utah | Our local Pop shop seems to sell entry level Applause and Celebs without much problem. He carries several small sizes for the younger students, too. Those customers, though, can't do what my daughter did, moving from a 3/4 size Applause to a new USA built 1778 Red Flame. That 1778RF directly led to two of Sara's friends buying new USA built O's, plus several that Sara sold to customers at GC when the salesmen didn't know squat about what was hanging on their wall!
Perhaps most buyers of TX and AX won't notice the shortcuts in materials and workmanship, and will find the guitars compare favorably with their price competitors. Most of those competitors are imports, too. The playing field is not under Ovation's control. I get that part of the price war.
And I am glad that the craftsmen in New Hartford are still employed and are still making great guitars, whether they carry the Adamas or Guild nameplate.
FWIW, I've purchased new 1 Applause, 3 Ovations, 1 Adamas. The used purchases are guitars I could not afford to buy new, like the Hamer, or guitars no longer available such as the Patriot, Viper, and Preacher Deluxe. |
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Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
Prof, don't forget that Taks are built in Asia (and they're pretty damned good guitars). Considering a recent purchase, I'm not likely to soon forget this.
Even so, you make an excellent point here, Paul. A $3,000 custom Takamine from Japan compares favorably with a $4,000 to $6,000 custom from a USA shop. Although the price thresholds may be a bit higher, the cost/benefit analysis behind the decision to choose the Tak instead of a more expensive Martin or Collings from the US is no different than what many other Joe Consumers go through when choosing a guitar.
For many consumers, consideration of price comes first and name brand is second. For instance, consider the last time you bought a small kitchen appliance. For me, I went to the local discount retailer, looked at a half dozen models on the shelf, all with brand names I recognized and simlar features, then I chose a model based on what I thought was good value for the price. When making this point in class, I ask my students the following question: How many of you brand-shop for gasoline? Most students don't, but then a small number usually raise their hand. I then ask them directly if they'd still buy that same gasoline if a different brand of gas was selling for a nickel less per gallon across the street? Rarely do they stick to their favorite brands. If they do, there's is always a price break where they'll switch to the less expensive brand.
My point is that when buying a product, the first consideration for most consumers is price. Once the price is determined, we then go out and search for what we consider to be the best value for the price. Cost or price thus becomes the primary driver of our definition of quality/value, with all other factors taking on secondary importance.
This point may be somewhat more difficult to make on this forum with respect to guitars because, after all, we are all committed to the Ovation/Adamas brand. That's why I raise the kitchen appliance and gasoline product examples. Chances are, we are not so committed to kitchen appliance and gasoline brands as we are to Ovation and Adamas guitar brands. |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15680
Location: SoCal | Originally posted by alpep:
I still have a good supply of NEW and nearly new guitars.
not anyone beating my door down. Yeah, but that's only 'cause we don't like you (we buy from you because we like Sue)...... |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | If I'm reading this correctly, we all have Al's permission to beat his door down next time we're in New Jersey, even if we only want to see Sue. |
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Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
Stephen, of the guitars you bought new, how many were from stores and how many were thru Al, and how many were custom shop builds?
Well, the twins were a custom shop order so thats 2
The OFC2 was a custom shop order so there is 3
The slothead was obviously used so that is 3 out of the 4 I still have.
Out of the other 7, I probably bought 4 through Al and the other 3 were most likely impulse buys or low ball offers on ebay that I did not expect to be accepted......
I currently have a Takamine Madi/Adi on order through Al. |
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Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 3111
Location: Nashville TN. | Originally posted by Damon67:
I bought my first several guitars new, the first being in '83, an Ovation UKII. My first acoustic electric was an Ovation as well. I've recently bought a new Custom Elite LX that was hanging in the store here locally (though I believe it was only brought in due to the roadshow coming through).
Mark and PEZ make the point here. The bottom line is that it USED TO BE you could visit a store, try one out, then buy it if you like it. It's a very hard thing to shell out the price for a new guitar you have never had a chance to try out. It's much less of a risk to buy a used piece, see if it works for you, and either keep it, or sell it off for roughly the same $$ you had into it.
If there was a 2074LX in store, I probably would have bought one already. but the nearest new one I found (when they were still being made here) was in San Diego, 1600 miles away. Unfortunately now, and most likely due to lack of marketing and visibility at stores, I only know of 1 single OFCer who has one, so I can't even buy a used one now.
Bottom line... If they were in stores, more would be sold... period, end of story. You can't expect to sell brand new high-end musicial instruments on eBay and online music dealers only and expect to do any volume whatsoever.
The only new guitar I've EVER bought sight unseen was from Al, the Adamas re-issue, and that's only because it was sold at a "used" price, and the last of an era. Agreeded btw I did not want to try my first new Ovation. Pretty woman who worked at the store asked me to try it.... the Thunderbolt I had new 1989.
They missed to sell guitars because they were not in store. Had there been a new deep no cut away Adamas or Custom Legend in stores I would not own the Martin D-28 or the Guild D25.
I am not keen on buying blind....
I did that USA Standard Elite with conture...
I hated it once I had it.
Bottem line Ovation still isn't fixing the dealer problem. If they don't American made in gear they going to lose a lot of potential consumers.
Right now the brands is in a death spiral... |
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Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 2985
Location: Sydney, Australia | I'm with Pez, while a few die-hards like the people here will buy sight-unseen from some grumpy bearded guy, most people won't. If the top-shelf models are not in stock, they won't sell many.
Disclosures:
Legend 1117* (bought new, gave to nephew);
Adamas W597* (bought new, sold);
Adamas 2008 Collectors (bought new from GBG, keeping)
Adamas 1680 (bought new from GBG, keeping)
Adamas 1685 12 string (bought 2nd hand);
Celebrity 12 string* (bought new, selling).
(*These were in-stock at a shop in my area) |
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Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I can count the number of guitars I've purchased after playing them in a brick and mortar store on one hand. I have no qualms about buying gear sight unseen, and the substantial majority of my gear has been purchased in this manner. There really is no other way with gear that is rare, of limited availability, or a custom order. I've also purchased a number of guitars based totally on the word of certain members here who I trust for their honesty, knowledge, and reputation. And, of course, you have to trust others if you want them to reciprocate and trust you. I can't imagine a world where people can't be trusted and don't live by their word. Fortunately, I am not close to very many people like that. |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | "Grumpy bearded guy" Al has a beard?? |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
"Grumpy bearded guy" Al has a beard?? grumpy? |
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Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 2985
Location: Sydney, Australia | Originally posted by alpep:
Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
"Grumpy bearded guy" Al has a beard?? grumpy? |
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Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Al can be a little abrasive sometimes, but never grumpy. He's either pissed or he's not. |
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a bad preception..... its setting in.
