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Location: Flahdaw | You CAN blame Mark for a certain percentage of what's wrong with Idaho, though. |
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Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | absolutely! |
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Posts: 12759
Location: Boise, Idaho | No more free legal advice for you guys. If Waskel was referring to the high percentage of lawyers in the federal government, I agree with him 100%, though. But that might be talking politics, which we can't do. Lawyer bashing is allowed, though. Apparently there's an exception in the "be kind" rules for that.
Edit: There's nothing wrong with Idaho, db. |
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January 2009
Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
Edit: There's nothing wrong with Idaho, db. Hey! I've had a few bad potatoes lately. |
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Posts: 4049
Location: Utah | Originally posted by javaman:
I've been playing live gigs for yeas and never had any problem doing covers as long as there isn't sheet music for the song on stage. As far as open mics, my feelings are that the clubs are using the musicians for free entertainment while they sell drinks and food. Very seedy on the establishment's part. I don't know what sheet music has to do with it, perhaps the appearance of playing a cover vs the appearance of playing an original?
Around here, the seediness of the operation seems to be directly proportional to how badly they treat musicians. We have three distinct classes of live music venues (besides major arenas), the open mic coffee shop or bar, the pay-to-play small club, and the truly professional bar.
For the amateur, there are a number of open mics at coffee shops and a few bars. It is controversial, but for the most part it is hobbiest musicians, old guys in mid life crisis, and high school kids trying to get some stage experience. I think it a fair trade for both the venue and the performer.
The crappy situation is the pay-to-play, which is really the entry level for those wanting to be professional. Virtually all the venues require the performers to "sell" a certain number of tickets in order to perform. Meanwhile the venue is making money on food and drinks. You can only convince your friends to buy a ticket a limited number of times.
Which drives many musicians back to open mics, hence the controversy that nobody can make money in music other than coffee shops and bars who have open mics without paying musicians. |
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Location: Scotland | The problem stems from bars who use live music to attract drinkers (note: attract drinkers - not music fans) so they book any old shite under the guise of "live music" and don't charge a cover. Consequently there is no respect for the musician, the audience or the art, they just want profit from the sale of booze. If you give it away, either as a musician or a venue owner then your product has zero value and will be treat accordingly.
Compare to the places that book competent (at least) musicians and charge a cover. Those places are respected and valued by all concerned. The bottom line is: it's all down to the competence of the promoter, and while it's a very delicate balance, if money comes before the art it will fail. Thus endeth the lesson. |
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Posts: 137
Location: Massachusetts | FlySig, as far as the sheet music goes, that's what I've been told and that was over forty years ago. I'm still currently playing with a very popular area band and we haven't heard anything about the clubs having a problem with ASCAP. This could be due to the fact that they are paying the fees.
As for darkbar, I had to reread my post to see where I insulted anyone playing open mics as he lambasted my post with insults about people who complain about what he does to get to play out in a club. I have also played open mics when I get down to Florida and I've met some real nice people doing it. darkbar, if I've somehow ruffled your feathers, I apologize. |
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January 2009
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Location: Flahdaw | Hey Java. Damn, I had to reread this whole thread to see what you were talking about. I was using YOUR post to talk about an ongoing debate in the Sarasota Craigslist, not to diss YOU. There is not much talent in this area, and the guys here bitching about open mics generally suck and should be working at Walmart instead of trying to be "professional musicians." I'm sure that doesn't apply to you and apologize if you read it that way. |
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Posts: 137
Location: Massachusetts | dark,you didn't mention any particular area before so I interpreted it as a generalization. I'm in the Ft. Myers area during the winter and we have a great open mic venue there and I'm not aware of any conflicts between musicians. Let's let this whole thing drop. Apology accepted. |
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Location: Michigan | ft.meyers ,,,, leapin lizard :cool: GWB |
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Location: Massachusetts | And we've got plenty of them |
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Fees the Clubs pay...
