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April 2011
Posts: 97
Location: Marlton, NJ | Beyond the bling, what are the differences between a Balladeer and Legend (the 1861 & 1867 for example)? Is the Legend a superior guitar?
How about the Legend and Custom Legend (1867 & 1869)? Any difference beyond bling?
I'm not even sure where the Custom Balladeer fits in.
I keep narrowing my scope on which Ovation I should be targeting. I've already ruled out the models with multi-soundhole rosettes - though they look cool, I prefer the sound of the standard soundhole. Now I'm just trying to determine if the Legend is "better" than the Balladeer, making it worth spending more for one, and in turn in the Custom Legend is better still. The bling is nice, but I more care about the functionality and sound of the guitar.
So far my list seems to be one of the following: 1860, 1861, 1862, 1867, 1869
Thanks,
Mark |
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April 2011
Posts: 97
Location: Marlton, NJ | Nevermind; I found the answers I seek on Ovations website. The main difference seems to be the quality of the soundboard wood and the type of wood used on the fretboard. The ebony on the Legend makes it worthwhile to seek one out instead of settling for a Balladeer.
So I think I've narrowed it down: I'm looking to buy either a Legend 1867 or Custom Legend 1869. I'm looking for a guitar in near-mint condition and with a modern preamp (OP-30 or better). And at a good price. :)
Wish me luck.
Mark |
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Posts: 639
Location: NW of Philadelphia | Happy hunting!
I prefer Ebony over rosewood too, but don't overlook any Balladeers that may cross your path. You might be pleasantly surprised by what you feel and hear. |
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Posts: 4233
Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | Some Custom Balladeers have ebony fretboards as well. Not that there's anything wrong with a Legend at all. |
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Posts: 97
Location: Marlton, NJ | I found an 1869 with an OP-50 preamp, carved bridge, and in excellent condition for $750. Does that sound like a reasonable price? I've seen them sell for cheaper, but the newer preamp and excellent condition would seem to make it worth more. |
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Posts: 843
Location: CA | Forgive me, but how does have an ebony fretboard make one guitar "better" than another. Last I checked, the fretboard is purely cosmetic and has nothing to do with the sound of the guitar. On ovations, the top wood and bracing determines the sound, does it not? (On all-wood gits, the back and sides also contribute.) I would very much like Ovation to have put high-end (AAA) tops on balladeers, since I personally don't care for all the 'bling' of Legends. (I'm also not Ovation-savvy enough to know if Balladeers get the primo bracing, but seems like I've read they get the more 'bargain' bracing.)
That said, I've heard Balladeers that sound pretty fine. And some Legends that sound pretty plain. |
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Posts: 843
Location: CA | Forgive me, but how does have an ebony fretboard make one guitar "better" than another. Last I checked, the fretboard is purely cosmetic and has nothing to do with the sound of the guitar. On ovations, the top wood and bracing determines the sound, does it not? (On all-wood gits, the back and sides also contribute.) I would very much like Ovation to have put high-end (AAA) tops on balladeers, since I personally don't care for all the 'bling' of Legends. (I'm also not Ovation-savvy enough to know if Balladeers get the primo bracing, but seems like I've read they get the more 'bargain' bracing.)
That said, I've heard Balladeers that sound pretty fine. And some Legends that sound pretty plain. |
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Posts: 97
Location: Marlton, NJ | IMHO, there is a slight sound difference between fretboard woods; some would argue the difference is huge, while some would argue there's no difference at all. I've owned electric guitars with ebony or pau ferro (another hard wood) fretboards, and found them to be bright sounding, but who knows, it could have been something else about the guitars.
My primary reason for preferring ebony over rosewood on acoustic guitars is I prefer the feel of it. On an electric guitar, I'll stick with rosewood because the improved feel of ebony isn't worth the brightness I've experienced.
And obviously there are different qualities of rosewood, some better than others. |
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Posts: 1433
Location: Right now? | I prefer an ebony fret board ... for the feel of it, also. Very smooth and comfortable and they almost always look great. I have a few gits with other types of fret boards, but if I was ever having a custom guitar made, it would have an ebony fret board. Not sure if they have much of an effect on the sound of the guitar. I agree with Oddball that it's more about the bracing and wood.
I have a 1617 A braced Legend that sounds incredbile ... so much so that I really, really wanted that one that Damon was selling a few months back as a greedy second, ha. I was broke at the time.
;)
Willa |
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May 2008
Posts: 1562
Location: Indiana | Proposed:
-Neck materials & design significantly effect the sound of an acoustic guitar.
-K-bars sound way better than LX's.
-Most ebony fretboards look cooler than walnut.
Fire away... |
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March 2007
Posts: 843
Location: CA | Truthfully, lookswise, I prefer an all-maple neck, but you don't see too many of those on acoustics.
Ebony/Rosewood (or any other dark wood) on the fretboard? I honestly never ever considered it as a determining factor in buying. Or sound. Or looks. Dark wood is dark wood.
I'll concede that a neck, and certainly how it's attached, and certainly something like a K-Bar, could have SOME influence on an acoustic guitar sound. But "significant"? Maybe I just haven't played enough of them.
Not sure how you'd quantify something so subjective without 'sound testing' a lot of guitars. So I'll mostly rely on most of you folks who have a lot more experience than I do. |
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Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | Fretboards....I have ebony, rosewood, cocobolo, and maple. All play beautifully. BUT, a cheap, grainy, fibrous rosewood fretboard, (like on an low end Ibanez) is noticeably sucky. |
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Posts: 6996
Location: Jet City | fretboards make no difference to the sound, and I could care less about the cosmetics, in fact, I've seen some beautiful grained rosewood fretboards that blow away an all black look.
The feel is the difference. Can I play on a grainy fibrous fretboard? Yes
Do I prefer a smooth tight grained ebony? Yes
If you're playing cowboy chords and or barring a chord here and there, honestly it makes zero difference. The difference is when you're fingering notes all over the board, bending, etc. When you're bending notes and adding vibrato and such, THAT'S where you'll get a new found appreciation for a smooth tight grain on a fretboard.
As for acoustics, I'll take a resin impregnated walnut board on an Adamas any day!
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Posts: 6996
Location: Jet City | Mark, the other thing to consider is bracing. The A-bracing on the Legend is much better tonally to my ears than the bracings on the Balladeer. I don't have a Balladeer, and never have except for the Deluxe Balladeer Bobbo mentioned that was really the first run of Legends. But those older Legends (pre-80's) had the same VT bracing as the Balladeer. It was the Custom Legend that first gave us A-braced guitars. I eventually got rid of the Deluxe Balladeer/Legend because I didn't bond with the tone.
The older (pre-80's) Balladeers are also Ebony on the fretboards I believe.
If it were up to me, and a center hole was the only option, the first thing I would look for is an A-braced Legend or Custom Legend.
Are Legends superior to Balladeers? Yes, that's why they cost more. And it's not just the bling or the wood on the fretboard. It's not the top wood either as the "grade" is really all about the cosmetics. It's THE SOUND... and that's because of the bracing.
Now what you have to decide is what sound do you like better? I know some here on the board that prefer the VT braced sound. |
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Posts: 6996
Location: Jet City | BTW, at one point, they all were A-braced, but I'm not sure when that happened. |
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Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Some Adamas models have a walnut FB, too, but I agree with Damon on the tone. There's so many other factors that contribute to the final tone that I wouldn't be able to denote any difference, all other things being equal. |
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Posts: 823
Location: sitting at my computer | Originally posted by Damon67:
It's not the top wood either as the "grade" is really all about the cosmetics. so... a grade AAA spruce top won't resonate any better than a grade A? I thought (apparently incorrectly) that the grade related to the tightness and evenness of the wood's grain and thereby produced better resonance. :confused: :confused: |
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Posts: 6996
Location: Jet City | from what the folks at the factory told me, it's all cosmetic in regards to the grades. All tops will be inspected for tap tone and only the best will get through, but I believe the grading is based on looks and lack of visual defects, neither of which promise a better tone |
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Posts: 15678
Location: SoCal | Originally posted by Jonmark Stone:
Proposed:
-Neck materials & design significantly effect the sound of an acoustic guitar.
-K-bars sound way better than LX's.
-Most ebony fretboards look cooler than walnut.
Fire away... Can you really tell the difference in sound regarding the neck bracing system? |
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April 2011
Posts: 97
Location: Marlton, NJ | I know there are differences in opinion on if the wood type of the fretboard effects the sound of the guitar - I'm sure you can find hundreds of threads on the topic on various forums - but I'd give a little more weight to the opinions of luthiers.
When I bought a custom Teuffel Tesla, coming from mostly playing Parker Flys, I wanted a hard and dense fretboard and requested that the guitar be made with an ebony fretboard. The builder strongly discouraged it based on his experience that ebony made the guitar sound too bright, so he recommended pau ferro as somewhat in the middle between ebony and rosewood. I went with his recommendation and found still found the guitar to be bright.
I've heard similar feedback from other builders, like Koll. Unlike a guitar owner, the builder gains experience in having guitars built exactly the same except for the fretboard wood, and based on their experience, can form an experienced opinion on the matter. So if someone has built hundreds of the same model guitar and has an opinion on the effect of fretboard woods, I'd value their opinion over the average guitar owner whose comparison is based on wildly different guitars.
Again, my experience is mostly based on electric guitars, in which I've owned a greater variety. On acoustics, I haven't owned enough to have a good comparison, but comparing guitars at a store, I find ebony to have a snappier sound, which I like; I don't like it so much on electrics. |
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Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | All my life, I have LOVED the ebony on my 1117 (1974 Legend). But in the last 5 years I've developed a real appreciation for the resin-impreg, walnut on my Adamas. It's hared and beautiful. GREAT tone. |
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Posts: 15678
Location: SoCal | I feel so shallow. I love ebony and walnut but don't care for rosewood. And that opinion is just based on looks. I can't tell the difference in sound or feel. My 3 chords feel and sound the same no matter what.... |
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Posts: 97
Location: Marlton, NJ | The resin impregnated walnut does look great! |
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March 2007
Posts: 843
Location: CA | Oddly, my preference is for minimal bling, which is why I would much rather have a nice-sounding Balladeer than Legend. Never did like all the dots and diamonds and trapezoids, etc. on any fretboard, no matter what wood it's made of. I like just the tiny dots on the side. If I could ever have the Ovation of my dreams built, it would look just like the 2005 Collectors — with a medium bowl. I'm also in the minority that never cared for the contour bowl or — sorry — that cheap-looking plastic piece around the sound hole. |
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Posts: 1562
Location: Indiana | Hi ya PM. I was mainly stirring the pot looking for debate... but, yeah I do believe K-bars sound different. I suspect the mass of the bar makes a difference, but it's a very subjective claim I know. And, there's always the possibility that I'm just FOS.
MarkF786, I agree with those pointing you to the A braced Legend. And you know my neck preference.
Good luck-
Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
Can you really tell the difference in sound regarding the neck bracing system? [/QB] Originally posted by Jonmark Stone:
Proposed:
-Neck materials & design significantly effect the sound of an acoustic guitar.
-K-bars sound way better than LX's.
-Most ebony fretboards look cooler than walnut.
Fire away... |
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Differences between Balladeer & Legend?
