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Posts: 672
Location: New South Wales, Australia | I know there's some pretty talented songwriters here and I was just wondering if anyone can tell me if there is any sort of tried and true formula to make a key change in a song?
For example, if I'm in the key of G, is there one key that's better to change to than another, and if so, how do I get there? Is there a transition or passing chord that can lead me to the new key. |
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October 2007
Posts: 2711
Location: Vernon CT | Ozwatto,
All though I'm not one of those talented songwriters you speak about,nor am I a talented musician as is a good number of members here I will give you my "2 cents" worth of "wisdom". The only reason I change Keys is to sing the song. As someone who does not have a lot of range vocally, I try to keep or change the songs to the 2 key's I can sing in. I have mentioned Chordie.com in other threads. It has a "button" that allows you to change the Key in 1/2 semitones. I start there and do my best to make improvements as the majority of the tabs are only 75% correct on average. |
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February 2004
Posts: 2487
| Well, I keep trying notes and chords until I get something that sounds good then I experiment to see if I can find some other form of that chord to make it unusual and interesting to the song. But that's the hackers way of making music. There are a few musicians in here that understand theory and there probably is a rule you can follow. Until they chime in just putz around till ya get it. |
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December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Recently I found a YouTube clip on key change theory. It was quite good. I'll try to find it fer ya... |
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January 2006
Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | We modulate all the time, usually one step up. From G, we'd modulate to A flat. Sometimes, two steps up. Don't know why, but so often choral music is written in E flat, then we modulate to E and F. I have a John Denver song that modulates a full 4th, from G to C. I don't know if there are any rules, but the modulation adds a little color to what might otherwise be considered repititious. When you're playing by ear with others who are using sheets, its good to know exactly where the modulation happens and where its going. Guest keyboardists have a way of not telling you beforehand. |
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January 2007
Posts: 430
Location: WNC-God's Country | Most of my songwriting is based on a 1,4,5 with a 2minor theory...This means if your in the key of G, this will be the 1 chord, from G count 4 keys..this will bring you to C as your 4 chord...then count 5 from G and this will be your 5 chord....subtract 2 from your 1 chord (G) and this will give you the minor which will be E minor...Based on this theory (Nashville), your song will be in G..C..D and E minor...This works with whatever your 1 chord is....
Hope this helps
Keith |
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Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Coming off the 5 you'll come back to the new 1 which will be up however many steps you want to take. |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Key change? You mean there's more than one???? |
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July 2005
Posts: 3410
Location: GA USA | But you're talking about a key change within a song like BB was, right? The standard is probably one whole step (2 frets) up. Beal laid something on us at g8rbowl, and I'll try to get it right. You may even try a temporary key change for a bridge or passage within a song, to the fourth, fifth, or relative minor.
The formula for what chords lie in any key (for guitarists who don't read music) is:
1= main key of song
4= major chord 5 frets above 1
5= major chord 7 frets above 1
Then:
The relative minors for 1,4,5
Find the relative minor for any major chord 3 frets below and play a minor
Also useful is the major chord 2 frets below 1
So for the key of G:
1=G, 4=C, 5=D
Rel. Minors are Em, Am, Bm
And you may find an F
Then as you change keys to A:
1=A, 4=D, 5=E
F#m, Bm, C#m
G
The real musicians may pick this apart, but it's what I keep in mind when playing, learning songs, writing... |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | I don't recall exactly what I was telling you but I can tell you the source and ya'll can go there and get the facts. Matt Smith. |
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Posts: 2487
| In Theory Matt is a fact! |
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Location: closely held secret | The most common one I find/play/write is one whole step up. The easiest way to get there in a basic 1,4,5 song is to throw in the 6, then the 2 becomes the new 1.
example in C:
Normal verse:
C / / / C / / / C / / / C / / /
F / / / F / / / C / / / C / / /
G / / / F / / / C / / / G / / /
Modulate verse:
C / / / C / / / C / / / C / / /
F / / / F / / / C / / / C / / /
G / / / F / / / C / / / G / A / ("A" is the "passing" chord)
To:
D / / / D / / / D / / / D / / /
G / / / G / / / D / / / D / / /
A / / / G / / / D / / / A / / /
If you want to modulate more or less than one tone, I've found that going to the 5 of the key you want to mod to works most of the time. |
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January 2007
Posts: 672
Location: New South Wales, Australia | Thanks for the input everyone. Wabbit, in your example, is the sixth (in this case A) played as a major chord to effect the change, when normally I think of it as the minor 6th? |
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Posts: 5575
Location: big island | notice, as in wabbit's example that the passing chord, A, becomes the 5th of the new key. as a simple rule of thumb, if you want to modulate to any other key in a song, the passing chord (the chord that helps make the transition) will usually be the one that is the 5th of the key you want to change to and is often the 6th of the key you are currently in.
edit: i just realized wabbit already said that and much more concisely. |
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Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Yes, Oz, it would be the major. If you're gettin funky the major 7th is very tasty.
...you funny, Wandy. |
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January 2007
Posts: 672
Location: New South Wales, Australia | Thanks Wandy and Wabbit...it's early Saturday morning here..kids have just got up so my peace and quiet has gone. I'm gonna grab my guitar and fool around with it for a while.
It's too early for me to get funky but I like that major 7th tip Wabbit so I'm gonna noodle around with it this afternoon when the kids are out and I can concentrate properly. |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Are you writing some more tunes Oz? |
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January 2007
Posts: 672
Location: New South Wales, Australia | I'm trying Muz. A little melody popped up out of nowhere early this morning and for some reason I heard a key change in there.
I had garage band practise this avo and as I type this I suppose you and Richard are enjoying yourself at AJ's. Have a great night. |
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Posts: 486
Location: North Carolina | You mean you start a song, decide you want another key, and how do you get there?
Go to the V chord of the new key. Say you start out in G, decide you'd rather be in A. OK find a way to sneak in an E. That will set you up for A. |
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Location: GA USA | That tidbit alone is worth the read. Thanks FA, Waskel and Lanaki. Hey - I learned something! |
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Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | That's two... :rolleyes: |
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Key change -- one for all you songwriters
