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November 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma | I'm aware the subject of the XLR cable with GROUNDED SHIELD has been thoroughly discussed. But I just made a discovery that thrilled me (okay, I'm easy to impress sometimes).
I only had one XLR cable that I could use with my guitar, the Ovation LO-Z cable, and I was intending to modify a couple of other mic cables, for backup, after opening the shell on the Ovation XLR cable, and seeing exactly what was meant by "connecting ground to shield." Maybe I'm a visual learner. Also, wiser musicians have recommended using 4-channel mic cable wherever possible (like Canare Quad), so when I stumbled across the Blue Kiwi cable, I thought I'd just get it, add the jumper cable to connect the shell to the cable ground, and have myself a quality new green (easy to recognize) 20' cable as the primary cable for my Ovation guitar.
When I got the cable package open, I plugged the cable into my cable tester. It indicated that GROUNDED SHIELD was already present. Cool! I tried it with the guitar and my mini-mixer, and sure enough, it worked :D
I got the cable from Sweetwater Audio. Currently, they offer free shipping on all orders. I sent an inquiry as to whether the other Blue mic cables have the GROUNDED SHIELD feature, since the Blueberry and Cranberry cables are less expensive (two-conductor cables). If I get a response, I'll post it. |
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April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | GREAT INFO! I have one of the blue Kiwi cables and while I wasn't overly impressed with it as a mic cable, I had never thought to try it as an Ovation cable.
Thanks for the tip Tim! :) |
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July 2002
Posts: 1900
| TimG, Can you recommend a phono/xlr cable? I need a quality shielded cable with the standard male phono-jack on one end (for the guitar 'out') and an xlr on the other end, to use my Legend direct to the board. Perhaps there is a more descriptive name for this particular type cable?
Steve |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by Steve:
Perhaps there is a more descriptive name for this particular type cable? "Homemade" |
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July 2002
Posts: 1900
| I had one of these at one time, don't remember what happened to it, just know it's a low impedance cable and some boards had both low-z and high-z xlr inputs... |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Steve, I'm confused. Are you looking to go from your guitar's 1/4" to an XLR in on a mixer? |
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July 2002
Posts: 1900
| Hi Waskel, I didn't see your late post, I logged off early yesterday. Yes, That's correct. I called it a phono jack yeserday. Sorry for the confusion. It's the standard 1/4" male on one end and an XLR male on the other. I had a lo-z converter but lost track of it, but it would be nice to get a cable made anyway. |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | You can make one, or here\'s one you could order. But I really can't recommend this.
If your board has high-z (1/4") inputs (I've never seen one that doesn't) you would be much better off going in that way. Low-z source (output) to high-z load (input) is ok, though you'll get a weaker signal. But high-z source to low-z load can be noisy and harsh-sounding (low frequencies will roll off).
If you really have to (or want to) go into an XLR input from 1/4", get a DI box, either active or passive (active is better). |
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November 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma | I always (normally) use a DI box with my guitars when using the 1/4" jack. My fancy ;) one for my acoustic guitars is an LR Baggs Paracoustic. But they all work, as far as I know. That being said... before I started collecting DI boxes, I got a couple of 1/4"-to-XLR adapter/transformers. One was simply a silver cylinder from Radio Shack. In a pinch, it worked fine. It's kind of an emergency piece of gear now. I let a drummer use it once, when he needed to go into a PA system. When I used it, I just plugged an instrument/guitar cable into the 1/4" end (from the guitar), and plugged the cylinder into the XLR floor receptable, and all was fine. The other cable has a 1/4" plug on one end, a foot-long cable, then an XLR connector on the other end. I don't remmeber if it's male of female XLR. I got it a couple of years ago, and don't remember from where. Probably Radio Shack, Mars Music, or GuitarCenter.
I'd think if you were going from your guitar to an XLR port, you'd need the stepdown (or is it step-up?) transformer, to go from Hi-Z to Lo-Z. Isn't that right? Play it smart, and get a DI box. While I've gotten some very nice ones, I'm not sure I can tell the difference between a $180 one and a $30 one. I've never actually tried.
Just a week or so ago, I had occassion to shop for the cable you described. At church, we're revamping our sound system for a new area, so we're figuring out connections, scrounging up gear, repairing/purchasing cables, etc.. One goal was to connect our mixer's output to a few power amps (for speakers), and we noticed that the amps all had XLR-F inputs. So I went shopping for some short 1/4" TRS to XLR-M cables. Could just as well have used TR (Tip/Ring) connectors, in this case, which is what you'd want for a guitar. Since I didn't want to order parts (because of the delay), I visited a couple of guitar stores, as well as scoping out the internet.
I ended up with some Hosa cables. Not premium quality, but it wasn't for my personal use. I drift to higher quality for my own personal gear. I paid $9 each for them, and also saw them on the internet for $5. I'm only talking about 5-foot cables, but they come in longer lengths. GuitarCenter had similar cables for $12. Now, if you're talking premium cables, I found that same type of cable by Mogami Gold. Cost was $36 for a 5-foot cable. I didn't price longer ones. |
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July 2002
Posts: 1900
| Hi Waskel, I Just got back to this post...Our board is 150 feet from the stage, so I will be going into the XLR mike inputs on the stage (I doubt they will provide 1/4" stage inputs). TimG, So, I guess a 12ft Hosa (or Horizon) cable will work. The DI box sounds like a sophisticated impedance transformer to maintain signal gain. One of the simple hi-z 1/4" to lo-z xlr cylinders will probably be sufficient for us. We definitely aren't 'carnegie hall', that's for sure... |
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November 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma | In my amateur opinion, I think it's likely that the cylinder transformer will work; but I've received absolutely no encouragement for using it. The "correct" answer, from all I've been told, is "DI Box" :) Warning: You're going to be fair game for merciless mocking by any experienced musician who sees you using the cylinder. Just saying.
You could probably get a DI box for $10-$20 on Ebay. About the same as the cylinder transformer. $25-$35 would get a decent one from MF or other internet store.
In that regard, "common wisdom" (if there is such a thing) seems to be that a cheap ACTIVE box is likely to be better than a cheap PASSIVE box, if frugality is an issue. Get an active box that can be powered from your mixer's phantom power (check that your mixer actually does deliver phantom power. Otherwise, use a passive box to avoid using up batteries). Good passive boxes are highly regarded, but will probably cost $80 to $100+ (for a serious passive box, the magic ingredient--and buzzword--is "Jensen transformer"). I have a dual passive box from ART. Cost less than $30 (plus a little for shipping). Seems to work fine. But I donated it for use by the pianist and drummer, since I have better ones for my guitars/bass.
Let us know how things turn out. |
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July 2002
Posts: 1900
| Hey Tim, Serious information, I appreciate it. I'll get a passive cylinder sooner or later. It's been a while, I don't remember them being that expensive.
Steve
1111 Balladeer
1621 Artist
1624 Country Artist
1627 Campbell Artist
1758 Elite 12
1767 Legend
Deacon 6-string |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Steve, bear in mind the cylinders are not impedance matching transformers (well, very few of them are). They are physical adaptors only.
The majority of those which are transformers are designed to go from low-z signals to high-z inputs. Shure makes a couple designed to work either way, but for the price ($25-$30) you could get an active DI box which might offer other features, such as ground lift, pads, secondary 1/4" outputs and balanced XLR outputs. |
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Joined:
July 2002
Posts: 1900
| Thanks Waskel, I will keep a copy of the these posts for all the valuable information. I can have the music center over in Boone order me one of the Horizon hi-z cylinders. |
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November 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma | Final information on the "Blue" (brand) cables. Since there seemed to be no other way to get the information (and I wanted some more mic cables), I decided to purchase the Blue Cranberry and Blueberry cables. Sure enough, all three (including the green Kiwi) have grounded shield. The Blueberry's ground is intermittent, however, leading to some horrible pops when plugged into my PA mixer. My cable tester confirmed that condition when I wiggled/pushed/pulled the female connector. So I'm going to have to open the female connector and resolder the not-quite-grounded shield, I suppose. |
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Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma | Update on the Blueberry cable. I removed the shell of both connectors, tested the pins and ground over and over with an ohmmeter. Could not find a problem. Finally reassembled the cable. It now works 100% fine. Even the cable tester approves. Go figure :p |
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Off-The-Shelf XLR Cable for Ovation Guitar Found
