|
|
Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Hello everyone I believe there is some truth that as a guitar ages it sounds better. But I really don't know why that is. What happens to a spruce top of a guitar as it ages? Does playing a guitar change the wood top in some fashion? This afternoon I was playing my Custom Balledeer, and feeling the top at different locations. It is amazing how much the top vibrates. An explantion on guitar soundboards would be appreciated. Thanks |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 613
Location: Zion, Illinois | From what I've heard, new guitar tops are a bit stiff at first and playing loosens them up. So just having an old top isn't any good enough if it hasn't been played often.
Don't know if its true, its just what I've heard.
Bradley |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Good subject
I don't think there is any scientific explanation of what happens as a guitar ages, but there is tons of observation of the more pleasant sound of older acoustics of various types. I have had a 50 to 60 year old Washburn roundback mandolin that, IMHO, even though the wood was top quality, would never achieve a sound close to any brand new Gibson style mandolin, so good design has to be part of the ageing process. Likewise, any instrument that has a top that sags, a neck that warps, bracing that cracks, will not age beneficially. So, the guitar that ages to that great resonance must be a quality guitar to start with in design and material and construction. An example, my son and I went to a local "bluegrass" jam at NMSU and one of the jammers had a Martin 00 prewar guitar rescued from a Mexican pawn shop and restored from atrocious treatment, it had the "sound" that we all look for, why? enough of the original was left to give that sound, it was the top and the bracing (and the effort of the restorer to rescue it). The most plausable explanation is that wood is a material that begins a process of curing the day it is sawn from the log, and it continues to change slowly but inevitably either to rot or if a part of a quality instrument, to improve to the point that, as with my 30 year old acoustic, I won't take it anywhere because I CAN'T REPLACE IT. (sorry, my capslock stuck)
Bailey |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Take a look at this:
http://www.acousticguitar.com/Gear/advice/vibration.shtml |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2002
Posts: 12
Location: Bloomfield Ct | As guitars age, and get played in, they change. That does not absolutely mean they improve.
I have a 40 year old Dreadnought that was really great when I bought the thing, but is a dark mud bucket now. No sparkle at all left in it. It sustains well, but got so loose it is just overwhelmingly dark. I have other old insruments that did get sweeter with age.
With age and use the woods used will change on a cellular level. Grain will shrink, and the mechanical and chemical bonds will relax. This usually makes an instrument more resonant. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | There is also a theory that a flat-top guitar's aging process peaks & hits a plateau after about 50 or 60 years or so, & then they actually begin to deteriorate. Whereas a carved-top takes dozens of decades to peak. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Thanks Paul, the article you suggested was very good. I just need to keep playing the guitar. This is interesting stuff. I have always wondered what happens to guitars as they age. Thanks again |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | That article was interesting & illustrated your question, but I think the idea of prematurely advancing the aging process of an acoustic guitar doesn't make a lot of sense. It's is a little like the concept of Fender's "Relic" guitars. If they look, feel & sound "old" they day they're made, what will they end up like in 40 years time? I've used this analogy before, but if a car dealer said "there's a hundred thousand on the clock & it needs new tyres but we're only asking three times the price of a new one" you'd know he was on drugs.
Paul
[ December 05, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 35
Location: Reading, PA | This is an interesting topic. I picked up a thread on the rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic which mentioned the vibration machine. I was wondering if I could get the Blues version. I don't think any of us (if I may be so bold) bought our guitars for what they would become. Rather we bought them for what they were when we first heard them. When I went to buy my 1868, I was originally looking at Celebs and swore I would only spend a certain amount of money. I wasn't going to be lured by some particular sound, little did I know... Anyway after a few follow up visits I was convinced the 1868 had 'the sound' and bought it. All was well until two months later when my daughters were rough housing and one fell on the guitar which I had just shown to my brother. It was in the open case on the floor. The top had a crack from the cut away side epaulet down to the bridge. The sound was gone. I took it to the factory for a replacement top and after almost 18 months it is just starting to sound acceptable. Still I'm not sure it's worth keeping. Please excuse the thread drift
Jim |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Jim
That reinforces what I was trying to say, the guitar has to be good to start with and I suspect yours will improve as it loosens up, but if it doesn't, look for another as there is some pleasure in the search. The vibration treatment is interesting but IMHO, will not turn a plunker into a singer. The guitars "tested" were all instruments that had been selected for their quality before shaking and who knows if the shaking might interfere with the ageing process, for example accelerating the 60 year old problem mentioned, causing them to die at 5 years. I am saying that if you see a 30 year old guitar on Ebay, don't buy it expecting the vintage sound just because it's 30 years old. They made as much junk 30 years ago as they do today.
A very interesting article nonetheless, but I am always suspicious of attempts of applying science to art, wine, or musical instruments. When the factory replaces the artist, we will dine at McDonalds as we admire the wall hangings and drink aged Ripple, and listen to Yanni.
Bailey
[ December 06, 2002: Message edited by: Bailey ] |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | bob taylor made a guitar out of a shipping pallet and people play it and say it sounds as good as the other taylors.....THINK ABOUT IT..... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Al
Is the hidden meaning here that the other taylors sound as bad as the pallet one off? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | bailey
I didn't say that you did... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Al
I shouldn't knock Bob Taylor cause I think I met him in the 70's when he had a little shop in Old Town San Diego, I think I took my prewar Washburn round back mandolin to have the neck corrected, the shop removed the fretboard, shaved the neck and reinstalled the fretboard. They were super busy and in order to get it back in anything less than 6 months, I didn't get it refretted and he gave me a piece of rosewood cut to fit a missing piece that he didn't get around to installing. I think the price was all right and the work was good and they did it because we were all into the folk scene, but they were getting out of the repair type work for guitar building full time as their guitars were becoming very popular.
Bailey |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Different woods will age differently too. Spruce will usually get better with playing and age and has a long timeframe. Ceder has a much shorter time. I remember hearing a story from a reliable source that Segovia could only get 7-10 years out of a guitar, that after that time the ceder was played out and got tubby sounding, or as it was so eloquently put, mud bucket dark. It makes sence since ceder starts out much more warmer sounding than spruce. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | I never said Bob Taylor did not have luthier abilities |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Al
I'll say that the transition from a guitar made by a talented luthier to a guitar made to his specs by an assembly line does not always produce a guitar equal to the original. My recollection is that Taylor had a talent for selecting the wood for the best sound and that talent works great when you have much wood and one guitar to build, it falls apart when have much guitars to build and not much wood. That pile behind the shop goes fast when you go national. Especially if you are competing with some major manufacturers for the wood. I always wondered as an aside, if there wasn't some great guitar wood in that roller coaster on the beach in San Diego that was many years old.
Bailey |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | Bailey
I have a few pallets sitting in my back yard. After I am finished using the lumber on them I would be more than happy to send them to Taylor if they send me a ups call tag. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Al
Be sure you tap them to determine the tonal quality and key before you ship them, seems like the "cowboy way" for your charitable act. |
|
| |
Sprue top age improvement
