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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Hello everyone. Seems I am getting more people asking me guitar questions lately. I need alittle help on this one. This fellow wants to buy a used Elite 6868. This is a shallow bowl guitar, and I don't have alot of experience with shallow bowls. Anyone out there own one of these? He plays in a band, and wants an acoustic that he can play at high volume. How does it sound not plugged in? PLEASE HELP ME! He wants to buy is soon, and is bothering me to no end. Thanks.....Paul Hebert |
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Location: NJ | Paul
you have been very vocal on your opinion of shallow bowl guitars.
Why are you posting this question here?
You seem to have amnesia concerning your own opinions.
Did you just post this to start another shallow vs. deep flame war? |
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Location: NJ | I'm actually a bit confused by the whole concept of this question.
This guy plays in a band.
He wants an acoustic guitar that he can play (with the band) at a relatively high volume.
This seems to be a good choice of a guitar for his needs.
The question is how will it sound "not plugged in"?
Forgive me for answering a question with a question, but "WHY?"
His primary concern is a good, "working band" guitar. I'm sure everyone would agree this fits the bill very well. Major concerns about strictly acoustic sound should be a moot point (at best).
If a full-sounding, "unplugged" guitar is a major issue, then this is obviously not the guitar for him. If it IS, then it'd be best that he seek out a mid-bowl model.
If there is ANYTHING that ALL of us have learned is that old chestnut that:
"Opinions are like assholes . . . everybody has one . . . and everybody else's stinks, but your own".
Theoretically, we could run this until we get 1389 different opinions, suggestions, debates and arguments, and in the end it would provide this guy with the same outcome:
"Let your ears decide".
I would suggest that this guy tries the guitar for himself (or if that's not possible, find a comparable model in a store and "test drive" it)
and formulate his own opinion/asshole.
"It's All Ice Cream". |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Al, excuse me if the question bothered you. Did you not see that I put I don't have any experience with this guitar? Yes I don't like shallow bowls, but my friend knows I like Ovations. If you don't have an answer on this particular guitar, why did you post anything at all? Do you enjoy trying to be a trouble maker? GEEZ! All I did was ask a question about a guitar I know nothing about. I am curious on how it sounds not plugged in. Again, read my lips, I never played one. I am not trying to start a discussion on bowl sizes, I am just trying to see if I should advise my friend to get the guitar or not. And yes all knowing Al, I have had good luck with the people in this group telling me about a specific guitar. Now Al, if it is ok with you, I again would ask anyone out there who has an Elite 6868, to let me know what they think of it. Is that ok Al? Do I have your permission to ask that question? Damn....Paul Hebert |
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Location: Scotland | From the initial posting by PH: "This is a shallow bowl guitar, and I don't have alot of experience with shallow bowls"
From previous postings by PH........
"But I have played so many shallow bowls, and they are not for me" Dec 10 2002
"I will never be a fan of the shallow back"
Dec 13 2002
"I know I am biased with my Adamas, but those shallow bowl guitars sould terrible to me"
Jan 1 2003
"I remember the first shallow bowl I played. I had talked my brother into ordering a 1984 collectors series guitar. We were so excited when it came in. BUT, I will never forget his face when he strummed it. Where is the bass he said. Hell I didn't know" March 21 2003
I don't think anyone's else's opinion will mean a damn, you've pretty much got your mind made up. |
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Location: NJ | Paul H
I did not deserve the personal attack.
I have personally spent much time answering e mails and questions from you and sending you pictures and giving opinions. I do not have a problem with that it is what I do.
I do have a problem with being attacked in public.
I spend a lot of time and devote a lot of time to this forum FOR FREE. |
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Location: Back in the Valley of the Sun Mesa Az. | Gentleman,
There must be bigger fish to fry, or we're all fishin in the wrong pond!
Peace,
Norse("Where's the Love?!")man1 |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Paul T, you are correct sir. I don't like shallow bowls. I am just asking for a friend what the groups feeling is on the model 6868 Elite. Can someone please tell me what they think of this guitar. Oh who cares, I tell him make up his own mind! |
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Location: SoCal | Paul: That after all, is always the best answer. |
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Location: Back in the Valley of the Sun Mesa Az. | I would glady end the debate, if someone would be willing to send me a deep bowl Elite, and a shallow bowl Elite.
Norse(sounds like a win-win situation either way to me)man1 |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Moody, you are correct on that one. I just got off the phone with him. He got it and loves it. Oh well, thats good (lol) |
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Location: The Shop | It is about time somebody told P.H to get off his deep bowl horse! |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Hey cms-man, I don't believe I will get off that horse anytime soon. Did you see the post about the MEGA-BOWL, now that is a horse I would like to ride.(lol)...Paul Hebert |
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Location: NJ | Paul
Get off the horse.
Let someone else ride for a change.
I think it really gets down to how many new Ovations have you bought with deep bowls? |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Al, how many new Ovations I have bought with deep bowls? Well how many Ovations are currently made with deep bowls? I have had quite a few Ovations, and yes they were all deep bowl. Ok guilty, I like the old Ovations, as I am sure many people in here do also....Paul Hebert |
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Location: Scotland | Paul, I am one of those people who prefers the deeper bowls, but I can also see the place, both from a practical & commercial standpoint for other designs, and I am very aware that comparing a supershallow to a mid or deepbowl is comparing apples to oranges. I am bored shitless with the "My deep bowl sounds better than your shallowbowl" crap. Go on stage (do you ever do that?) with your classic 2-knob deep-bowl Adamas and crank the volume, then get the monitors happening. When the guitar sounds like shit because you have to eq out all the bass to stop it screaming at you, you might realise why Supershallows are very succesful guitars, designed for a very specific purpose. I'd like to add that I do not own or have the desire to own a supershallow. |
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Location: NJ | Paul H
The last time I was at the factory I had a long talk with Frank Untermyer where he was amazed at how the rumor that Ovation will not or does not build certain guitars gets started and perpetuated. He expressed that all someone has to do is call a dealer and have them spec out a guitar and they will make it.
I am a dealer. I can spec any guitar you wish. Call me any time.
In fact, I speced an Adamas gutiar last week for a customer. Oops, he wanted a super shallow bowl. He owns 12 ovations. He bought them all new. |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Paul T, I have used my Adamas on stage many many times. I must say it has never sounded like crap. In fact, I was playing once with a guy who had a very nice Taylor, and he had all kinds of eq problems. Al, I know Ovation will build anything you want. I just wish there were more deep bowls that were standard models like it use to be. I did notice in the new Ovaiton catalog that there are more mid bowl models. Look I know it is obvious by now that I am an acoustic guy. I just love big booming sound coming from a guitar....Paul Hebert |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Hey guys I forgot to mention this. I was lucky enough to see Al Di Meola a few years ago. And guess what he was playing a deep bowl Custom Legend. But I guess he must have had great eg guys....Paul Hebert |
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Location: So. Cal. | I have to agree with Paul T. on the love of deep bowl O's. I only have the '88 LE and Adamas Proto nylon with SS bowls. I have relegated to primarily using the Viper LE on stage because of feedback problem. I've used the '88 and Adamas nlyon with no problem but the deep/mid bowls are just hell to control. hbhhg lh tt [code] [/code] ';;;l.l'l;lk,;m,llopioi yugyftyftr66rt |
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Location: So. Cal. | Sorry about the garbled meesage (my 4 year old decided to take over...)
I have to agree with Paul T. on the love of deep bowl O's. I only have the '88 LE and Adamas Proto nylon with SS bowls. I have relegated to primarily using the Viper LE on stage because of feedback problem. I've also used the '88 and Adamas nlyon with no problem but the deep/mid bowls are just very difficult to dial in a good sound without feedback. This is mostly a problem playing with a full band (electric bass, drums etc.). If you are playing a duo and trio with only A/E guitars, you'd be fine.
The bottom line, we all have a purpose in this world. We can all get alone. Ovation actually did quite a good job with the mid-bowl, drawing a nice line between deep and SS. I personally love it.
Just me and my Adamas! |
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Location: Scotland | Yeah, great EQ, world class sound system, world class engineer, it get's easier at DiMeola's Level. I was merely trying to contextualize the reason why the SS guitars were developed.
I play fingerstyle guitar, without picks, with a very dynamic rhythm section and I like my monitors loud. All my guitars are mid or deep, but I carry a pretty sophisticated rig and have 20-odd years of pro-audio experience. If you know what you're doing and are prepared to invest in some good EQ, feedback is less of an issue.
PH, when you perform,what size venues do you play? do you run your monitors loud? Are you competeing with bass, drums & other instruments to be heard in a mix? There's a world of difference between small-ish venues, with vocals and a few guitars compared to a band gig or concerts/festivals with audiences of several thousand and the sound systems to cope with that. That's when the problems really start. |
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Location: Alabama | "Contextualize" I'm gonna make that one my 'new word for the day'! If I keep reading Paul T's posts, maybe I can learn English. ;) Thanks PT. |
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Location: The Shop | ANY model you want can be made in deep bowl. |
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(HELP ME PLEASE) Ovation Elite 6868 question
