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Location: UK | I experienced a really good guitar shop here in London, today (a rarity to which I'm sure Paul T will attest). It is called the Acoustic Centre and is based too conveniently for where I need to be sometimes in the City.
I'd basically gone down to check out the Collings' because I owned one couple of years back and it is consistently the one make of guitar out of the many that have been through my hands over the years that I miss. Anyway, I played through a number of very nice Dreadnoughts including Collings', Martins and a particularly good sounding Gibson rosewood J45 (yes, it surprised me too).
Here's the funny thing though. The shop has a number of 'vintage' Ovations, including a very nice Elite non-cut, natural finish with the volume and tone on the side of the upper bout (if that helps anyone identify it). Although there were a few dings in the soundboard the top was flat and without any sign of movement. The neck was nice and straight as well.
I thought that after playing my way through the conventional dreadnoughts that the feel of the roundback would perhaps be uncomfortable - a complaint that a lot of players level at the roundback.
What was surprising to me was how I immediately felt a lot more comfortable playing the Ovation than I had with the conventional Dreadnoughts. It was like putting on a comfortable pair of shoes. The neck access above the 12th was much better, even though it was a non-cut.
It is difficult to make a tonal comparisson because to be fair the Martin HD-35 I played was very good and the strings on the Ovation were as dead as a dodo. I must say I hanker after having one all wooden instrument because I think that it will definitely allow me to create different tones and patterns.
Am I being drawn to the dark side or will the force (of Ovation) maintain its sway over me (or have I watched too many reruns of Star Wars, with my kids?) |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Young Jedi-
The power of the dark side is a stubborn presence. You must feel the power of the force, and tell the shop owner you are possibly interested in purchasing the Ovation, but would like to hear it with a fresh set of strings to make a fair comparison. You can't feel the force with dead strings.
And bring your light sabre.
Yoda has spoken. |
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Location: SoCal | With new strings on it, the Elite (if it's a 2 knobber then the model number is 1537 -- do a search on this board and you'll be amazed at the great comments on them) will come alive. Wouldn't trade mine for a Martian or Snailor or Vivson. |
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Location: Scotland | Big L, If it's the one I'm thinking of they've had that Elite for a while. I nearly bought it at their stand at the Manchester guitar show last year for £500 & I've been kicking myself ever since. If memory serves It has one main ding on the treble side upper bout & a few minor dings elsewhere, but nothing to worry about on a 20 year-old guitar. Those early non-cut, 2-knob Elites with the wood binding are classics. How much were they asking? Last time I was in there there were still based in Wapping. They had a blue Adamas 2 for £650 & a Mandocello for a little less. Where's the new store? I'll be in London for a day on my way out to the USA to pick up my Ovation book Mando, Tornado & 68 GC 12-string from the Moody storage company.
Just checked an old post & the guitar I saw was a slightly later 3-band Op24 version, not a 2-knobber. That Elite is worth having if the price is right |
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Location: SoCal | Prying that book mando out of my hands.....
Damn |
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Posts: 7236
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | If you want a more woody tone, but like the "feel" of the Ovation, check out the 2001 Collectors. Something about the Redwood, makes the tone VERY woody, yet, it still has the consistant volume going up the neck and all the other things we love about Ovations. |
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Location: SoCal | If you can get the music store to just put new strings on the Elite, you'll be amazed at the "woody" tone. Have them put on Elixirs. They are not so bright right off the bat, and will give the Elite and wonderful warm tone. |
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Posts: 69
Location: UK | Thanks, all, for the comments!
Strummin' 12 - you really made me laugh out loud, not only because of the humour but I ain't been called young since my thirties!
Paul T, believe it or not they want £899, they must have been reading posts here at the OFC and decided to up the price! I'm sure an offer would be possible. The shop on the edge of Spitalfields market near Broadgate, at Brune Street, E1 7NH (if you use streetmap you'll find it easily).
I don't think I'll be giving in to temptation anytime soon, though. |
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Location: Scotland | £899 from a London dealer isn't unreasonable, considering the quality of the instrument. I'd expect somewher around that if it were mine and I was selling privately. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | If this is the same store I remember it is right next to the Bass Centre. It's owned and run by Barry Moorehouse who is an A+++ person. Barry understands quality so you'll find it there. There was another guy there too, Russel Prince, don't know if he's still there but he's great too. Good singer and does a great version of "My way"
Now the dark side question, quality and tone know no color, it it feels right and sounds good, go for it. It has been said that Wapping High street is the dark side anyway. Either that or when you are that close to so many basses, well we all know about bass players.......
Tell Barry I said Hey. |
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Location: UK | cwk2
Thanks for the comments and your recollection is correct - the Acoustic Centre and the Bass Centre are in fact one and same thing (acoustics upstairs and basses downstairs). They are now housed in new premises in a much better location for visitors to London. I was served by a great guy called Grant Collins.
They do have a pretty astonishing range of instruments, including Takamine, Lakewood,Taylor, Martin, Collings, Lowden, Avalon and a few Gibsons (I get the feeling they are pretty choosy about what they stock with regards to the latter). They have three s/h Ovations in stock at present and again, I get the feeling, they've been choosy about what they have.
I have to say as a businessman, I just don't get it. How can these shops actually afford to stock 200+ guitars with an average price of say UKP 1,000? I mean unless turnover is phenomenal all their cash is tied up in stock. Do they get it on sale or return?
I guess I don't have to tell anyone who is involved in the business that you have to stock what sells and at present in the UK it would seem Lakewood, Taylor and Lowden are it. I can understand Lakewood and Lowden but why anyone in the UK would want another expensive US import like Taylor is beyond me. Especially as the pound against the dollar is sinking again!
In London, so far, the best outlet I've come across in terms of range and knowledge for Ovation has to be Ivor Mairants, followed closely by Rose-Morris - where I bought my first Ovation from a pretty clued up individual who was genuinely enthusiastic about Ovation guitars. Gave me lots of time to choose (I went back 3 times!) and even pointed out the 2-3 which he personally thought were the best even though they weren't the most expensive (which is a good sign, generally).
Sorry to rabbit on but I figured it might be of interest to those on the other side of the pond to hear about Ovation and the retail scene here in the UK.
Anyway, bottom line, if you love guitars (be they Ovation or otherwise) a trip to the Acoustic Centre if you are in London, as well as Ivor Mairants, would be of interest (along with the Tower, Buck House, Houses of P and other less important sights!).
L |
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Posts: 25
Location: UK | I put Elixirs on my Adamas and was amazed at the difference in response and tone from the standard Adamas strings I had on before. Can't speak too highly of them! |
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Location: Scotland | Big L, Mairants is owned by Ovation's UK distributor JHS, which is why they have such a good selection. The Boss-man there, Mak, is a nice guy & knows his stuff. Rose-Morris have some history with Ovation as they were Ovation's original UK distributors, and Adrian Legg was their tech for a while, but every time I've been in the Rose-Morris store lately they've had mostly imports. Having said that I found my '78 wide-neck Adamas in Rose-Morris about 7 or 8 years ago and stole it at the price I paid.
It'll be intersting to see what happens now that George Lowden has his name back & has split from the company and Avalon are intending to produce an offshore-built budget range .
You know, I ran a pub on Tower Bridge Road for 2 years, literaly seconds away from the bridge & the Tower of London & I have yet to visit either. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | I don't know what anyone else thinks, but as far as I'm concerned you guys can natter on as long as you like about the British guitar store situation. I sure can't afford a trip there, so how else could I hear such interesting stories. Again, the web is astounding.
Bailey |
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Posts: 69
Location: UK | Paul,
You made me laugh about never visiting the Tower or Tower Bridge - probably for the same reason as me - the lines of tourists waiting to visit the Tower puts off the locals!
Bailey, if you are ever in the UK I'll give you a personal guided tour of Denmark Street!
I never knew that about the change in ownership of Ivor Mairants. I bought a couple of guitars there when the old man still ran the shop. It could be quite a family affair buying a guitar with Ivor, his wife and whatever other extended family were in the shop all enthusing over your purchase! I bought a Norman and a Fylde from them in the early and late 70s respectively. Often wondered what happened to the ownership. Still a very good shop and I must have met Mak this last time when I was auditioning the Ovations.
I don't know whether there is a thread like this on the board but I've bought my last ever Ovation here in the UK (unless it is something like the Elite in the Acoustic Centre) because the price differential between here and the US is absurd. Example, new 2003 Collectors in IM for approx UKP1,850 (=USD 2960). New 2003 Collectors on e-Bay for between USD 895 and USD 1100 (= UKP 560 and UKP 690). I know part of the problem is the e-Bay effect which is making all prices extremely transparent but even allowing for the 20% additional it costs to import a guitar the differential is still ridiculously in favour of buying in the US.
I don't know if people from JHS or Ovation read this board, but really guys you can't compete with Lowden and Lakewood if you sell pound for dollar in the UK.
Mind you, it is the same with the HD-35 I was drawn to the other day - even allowing for import duties I can save nearly UKP 300 by buying from the US.
I want to support UK businesses but there is a limit to my philanthropy!
L |
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Location: Scotland | Big L. The price of USA guitars over here has always been a contentious issue, but really it's unfair to compare UK prices of US guitars to European-made stuff like Lowden & Lakewood. VAT, Duty & Shipping will add almost 25% to the US wholesale price, then there's the distribution infrastructure to pay for (wharehousing, marketing, sales, warranty work etc) plus distributors profit & retailers profit to consider. It tends to work the same way for UK products in the US. For example a Lowden S32 lists at $3.5K/£2.2K in the US, but is available in the UK for around £13-1400. Even with a US discount price of around $2.6K there's still a significant increase in the price compared to over here.
Similarly UK street prices on US guitars are usually much lower than list, but it's still cheaper to import privately, bear in mind though that on a new instrument the UK distributor won't honour the warranty in the event of a problem.
With Lakewood the Acoustic Centre is not only a retailer but also the UK importer, so they have an advantage pricewise, and probably why very few other UK retailers stock Lakewood. There was an interesting article about Lowden/Avalon in the business section of the Times last Sunday. Basically since the last change of ownership when George Lowden became involved again, the company has yet to make a profit, despite selling all of their production, and they are not cheap instruments. The article is online here:
http://www.enterprisenetwork.co.uk/knowledge_store/casestudy_detail.asp?d_id=1010&ct_ id=5 |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Paul T.
That was an interesting story, and it seems to have a familiar ring. "We can put that name on a $300 guitar and sell thousands (before they find out that it isn't the same guitar that Eric played)". Alfa Romeo tried that by calling a Fiat by the revered name. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | That is a great article and really points to how forward thinking Ovation was. Ovation manages to keep some of the best craftsman around employed at good wages (I assume, as everyone seemed happy to be there), and still provide a quality product. |
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Posts: 69
Location: UK | Interesting read and it reminded me of an experience a few years ago.
I bought a hand made guitar from Rob Armstrong, a british Luthier of some repute. He told me at the time that he could not afford to own one of his own guitars. He lived in incredibly modest circumstances and probably made a guitar a month. His clients included Bert Jansch and other luminaries whose names I can no longer remember. What struck me was that clearly he was not in it for the money.
It would not surprise me to discover that Stradivarius died in poverty as well! |
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Location: Scotland | Big L, I know Rob Armstrong's work very well, several friends of mine who are quite well known on the UK folk scene use his stuff. I tour occasionally with a folkie from Colchester who uses one of Rob's guitars, and Irish singer Songwriter Keiran Halpin whose "Songbook" CD I've recently produced has a couple of his longneck guitars and is also a Lakewood endorsee. http://www.kieranhalpin.com/ Rob makes great instruments & sells them way too cheap. Luthiers are never in it for the money, I know several guys who are well-respected UK luthiers, none of them could be even vaguely described as wealthy.
Did you know that Rob Armstrong has been working for several years as a design consultant with the University Of Loughborough on a mass-marketable, cheap roundback guitar made from composites. http://www.lboro.ac.uk/departments/cd/docs_dandt/research/dr/polyguitar/ |
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Drawn to the dark side....
