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Location: south east Michigan | Since we are talking about how important our old Ovations are to us, I was wondering. Is the mystic about old guitars about the aged wood or is it about the sentimental value they hold. Is it true that my old Balladeer rings & sings because of some changed physical properties, or is it because of the history I have with it?
Brad |
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin | yes |
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Location: Athens, GA & Gnashville | Wood and wine: age good.
Breasts: age not good!! |
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Location: Zion, Illinois | Age, as in the older it gets, the better it sounds? Maybe not.
Age, as in the more you play it, the more it opens up and sounds better, yes.
Bradley |
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Location: Florida | What Brad said - I once workded with a gal who also played in the Palm Beach Symphony. Actually she'd just quit because her hubby was being transferred to play in the main US Marine Orchestra in D.C., but his transfer was deferred for about 90 days. We took her on to do general office work for a bit.
Anyway, she told me she had two violins, and that if she didn't play them daily for at least an hour apiece they'd die. It was either her or somebody else that told me they have a process to use sound waves to excercise the instruments too.
Thats what got me thinking the Adamas top was breaking in a bit. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Great story Charlie B. And Bradley make a good point also. So far it seems like emotion and experience might play meaningful part.
So physically, what happens to wood over time. Dryness can't be the only factor. Does wood become more "brittle" and thus more able to vibrate?
Just wondering.
Brad |
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Location: Athens, GA & Gnashville | On a more serious note, in my experience I have seen that the perfect combination is an instrument with age that has been played on a regular basis. However, age alone does change the nature of the wood and opens it up.
But, it is usually better (not always!) if the instrument has been played regularly instead of sitting under a bed. There are a lot of subjective variables in this whole process.
I've heard a 50 year old Martin D-45 that was played a lot and sounded like crap!!
Still, age is not good for breasts. :cool: |
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Location: On the beach in Southwest Florida | Amen and amen. |
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Location: SoCal | There was a thread on this subject about a year ago. It's an interesting subject.
Wood molecules need to vibrate to work well as guitar tops. The more they vibrate, the more they can vibrate. Which is why a guitar needs to be played. The more it's played, the better it will sound.
There was a guy, a couple of years ago, that came out with a machine that would literally shake a guitar and would loosen up the top. There were people who swore that the machine made their guitars sound better.
Personally, I think that that would be a short cut I wouldn't take. Half the fun of buying a new guitar is playing it enough over the years to get it to sound it's best.
As for breasts, if you take the time to play with them enough, even tho' they might be old, they can still be cherished. |
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Location: south east Michigan | That makes sense. If age was the only factor we could just take some 200 year old barn wood and be done.
The breast thing makes sense also.
Brad |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | As was described to me by I think CWK2 at one time.. Think about the top like a piece of cardboard. The more you bend a piece of cardboard, the easier it is to bend. Of course on tops we hopefully are not "bending" them but the principle is the same. A new top is stiff, graphite or wood they both move and over time will loosen up. As someone else mentioned this is almost always a good thing, but logic would dictate that there is going to be the odd top that sounds like mush after 50 years. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | So hanging your guitar on a wall or on a stand infront of a speaker can settle it in? I have heard this theory and since it takes a long time to prove it it will always be a point of conjecture. |
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Location: Scotland | Someone came up with a gizmo that would vibrate a guitar & put several decades of playing through it in a matter of minutes. A bunch of name players had guitars subjected to this & the results were generally positive. The consensus is that it's not just the passage of time that affects the wood but the vibration as a result of playing. I'm pretty sure that placing a guitar in front of a speaker would speed up the process, but life's already too short, I'll play my guitars in the hard way, thanks.
It's like those "relic" Fenders. Why the fuck would you want to pay top dollar for a guitar with fake distress? Imagine if it were a car..... "It's gonna need a re-spray pretty soon, the upholstery is shot & the tyres are worn, and those exclusive extras will only cost you an extra grand" Total madness. |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Actually, wood probably becomes LESS brittle with playing...brittle wood would not vibrate as much and would sound WORSE. Describing it as a materials engineer would, you are stressing the top repeatedly, well below the yield point, and this works the wood so that it yields more easily(and vibrates more).
My GC 12-string sounds much better than a new Legend 12-string. My Applause sounds better than almost any new guitar under $500. I'm a believer.
Roger
1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String
1981 Ovation 1118-1 Glen Campbell 12-string
2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String
2003 Ovation 1777-NAT Legend 6-string |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Paul T, man you are right on the money about the "relic" Fender Strats and Teles. Why would someone find this attractive? I freak out if I get one scratch on my guitar, but at least I put the scratch there. Why would someone want a guitar that was "aged" by a guitar builder. This makes no sence to me. And the prices they charge for these guitars makes it even harder to believe. :confused: |
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Location: Central Oregon | I've never heard of "relic" Fenders. What are you guys talking about? It almost sounds like you're talking about brand new intentionally beat up guitars. naahhh, that couldn't be it.
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Nils, that is exactly what it is. Well mainly these are vintage "reissues" that are made to look well played. They have nicks and dings in the body, the chrome hardware is made to look faded and rusted, and on the ones with maple fingerboards some are made to have the worn look of alot of playing. I know it's crazy, but it is done. So you end up paying alot of money for a guitar that is new but looks old. Got it? I sure don't. :confused: |
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Location: Central Oregon | That has to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of.
Ol' P.T. was right.
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Location: San Bernardino, California | I don't know ... seems like it ranks about even with 'future vintage'. |
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Location: Scotland | I don't have a problem with scratches & dings on a guitar, they're working tools, it'll happen. But if it's going to happen I'd prefer to do it myself, not have some "custom shop" do it on my behalf |
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin | I've seen demonstrations of "stressing" newly built furniture to make it look antique. My favorite was to give the table top or whatever a few lashings with a logging chain. Might look good on a Martuned or Trailor. |
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Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma | You would think that the engineers at Ovation would know alot more on this subject... Since Kaman founded Ovation guitars with the knowledge of vibration, and it's use and control within the confines of the body of a guitar there should be a wealth of information about how aging and playing affects the vibration caracteristics of different woods... After all, don't they dry and season woods before using them in a guitar?... The lyrachord backs might even change with age... The fiberglass they use in boats changes with age, sun and the effects of the environment...
Just some thoughts and observations..But, I would like to hear some comments from the sound engineers at Ovation on the subject..
Gerald |
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Location: Fort Worth, Texas | At Matt Smith's chop shop he mentioned something about the sap in the wood crystalizing over time. I didn't persue the topic that night.... |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | I think Keith Richards was the one who really got the ball rolling on new "distressed" guitars when he complained that his new guitar(I think a Tele) built for him in the Fender Custom Shop wasn't worn enough...he wanted it SCRATCHED UP like his nice old one. So they obliged him..... :confused:
Roger
1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String
1981 Ovation 1118-1 Glen Campbell 12-string
2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String
2003 Ovation 1777-NAT Legend 6-string |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Roger, you sure Fender didn't scratch up Keith Richards? :D |
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Is "Aged" Wood a Myth?
