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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Something that has occurred to me lately....does a brand new acoustic guitar require a "playing in" period before the sound quality gets to the expected point of a new guitar? It certainly is that way with new strings.
The reason I ask is that I tried the New England Burst Standard Elite LX at Elderly back in February, and it lost sound-wise to the non-LX Legend, which I bought. Now I'm wondering. The SE LX had not been put out on the floor, and they had to get it from storage for me to play.
I may have been the first person to play it at the store. It sounded a little "dead". The 1777 Legend had been out on the floor for 2 months and had been played extensively, I'm sure. Did the 1777 get an "unfair advantage" by getting "played in"????? Interested in your opinions......
Roger
1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String
1978 Ovation 1617-4 Legend 6-string
1981 Ovation 1118-1 Glen Campbell 12-string
2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String
2003 Ovation 1777-NAT Legend 6-string |
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Location: Florida | Somehow I'm wondering if that were true, why Guitar Center doesn't charge extra for floor models.... calling them vintage instruments. Sigh.
Anyway, it could be the case. I think even my SMT opened up after a few days of playing - and folks here said carbon fibre, no way. I say hey, but the braces and neck are wood. It just seemed sorta brittle at first, not really dead.. more like tight and less resonant. |
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Location: Fayetteville, NC | I purchased an 1858 12 String with a Mid Bowl lastyear. It sounded great when i tuned it up and played easily enough. But i did notice that it sounded even better after playing it for a day or two. So what you stated could be a factor.
Don't know if it's Scientifically correct. But it sure seemed that way to me and i've heard this being stated by others as well. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Roger,
Here is my offer. When you get that new 6 string I think you should allow me the honor of breaking it in for you. Surly you don't want to do all the work to get that sweet sound yourself do ya? Just give me six months and I'll have that thang sounding swwwweeeet!
Aren't you getting one of those new Mustangs also?
Same deal.
I heard that Jimmy Page used to have someone break in new shoes for him. Urban myth?
By the way...as of this hour I have decided to wait for the deep bowl LX.
and....Guitar Club on Tuesday if you are interested.
Brad |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | I have heard that the sound of a quality guitar will improve with age. Apparently, the more that the top wood vibrates, the better it sounds. I was under the impression that this process would take place over a matter of years, not weeks. I don't know if this is as big of a factor with Ovations since only the top is made of wood. Interesting question though. |
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Location: Scotland | One of the biggest myths about Ovation guitars is that they do not "mature" like a traditional guitar. The main factor in the sound of a guitar is the top. The primary function of the back & sides, regardless of what they are made of, is as a structure to support the top. The tone of a solid-top Ovation develops with playing just like an all-wood guitar. |
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Location: Waurika OK | just my $.02.
I believe there are two things than come into play.
If the difference is noticed in a day or two, that is probably your ears getting accustomed to the "different sound" of that guitar or a different type, dia. of strings. Also, your technique is beginning to fit that guitar.
It seems to me that the top "playing in" or "ageing" or whatever you call it would be a much slower, longer process and so gradual as not to be noticed until maybe years later.
noel |
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Location: SoCal | I believe both Temp and Noel are spot on correct. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Yes they do require a break in period. And I just got a new car and that has one too which I haven't seen in many years. For the first 1000 miles no jumping on it to kick down for passing gear, no going over 4500 rpm, no going over 85 mph. God they really know how to take the fun out of things! At least a guitar you can play flat out for as long as you can! |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | My question was directed at whether a few hours or days of playing would "break-in" a guitar. The 1777 Legend got it, the Standard Elite LX did not before I tried them at Elderly.
Brad, actually the 1777 Legend is already nicely broken in!!!! :) You will hear how well Tuesday night...see you and everyone else around 7:00. I presume Brian will bring his new Adamas and put us to shame...... :D
I definitely agree with Paul T., xnoel and Moody about Ovation sound improving with age. I bought a 1978-vintage Legend two weeks ago, and it sounds SO good....a lot of depth and character, much more so than any new Ovation product I have heard.
cwk2, there has ALWAYS been a break-in period for FoMoCo vehicles as long as I have worked there(28 years)....it's just that the details are buried in the owner's manual, and the salespeople usually don't mention it!!!! If your salesperson for whatever brand it is DID make a point of it to you, good for them!
Roger
1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String
1978 Ovation 1617-4 Legend 6-string
1981 Ovation 1118-1 Glen Campbell 12-string
2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String
2003 Ovation 1777-NAT Legend 6-string |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Old Applause Owner
There is no way that a new guitar can be improved by playing as the ageing process is measured in the very least months if not years.
HOWEVER, there is one aspect of new instruments that is not given any respect today, my friend Bill Hards, owner of Poway Music and ex Marine with Korean combat experience, (I try to honor every veteran of war as they deserve) took every new guitar into his "shop", checked the action, put on good strings, tuned to standard pitch, and monitored it for a few days for slippage, warping, or anything that would affect the playing and sound. If you walked into his store and pulled a guitar off the wall and tried it out, (under Bill's fatherly eye, e.g. no flailing, beating, abusing allowed backed up by his Marine presence) they sounded as good as they could and usually that was pretty good for a quality guitar.
My grandson, bless his soul, bought me a mandolin last week that he thought looked good and he included a beautiful case. When he handed me the mandolin and I tried to tune it, it wouldn't stay in tune, and even though it showed signs of quality sound it was marginal. He left, concerned that his Dad's long time friend who ran the Music Store where he bought it, might have been less than candid. After he left I checked it out, removed the shipping pad that was damping the strings at the string attachment under the cover plate, cut an 1/8 inch of the bridge screws that were preventing the action to be lowered to where it could be played, and moved the bridge to where the intonation was correct, and VOILA!! it sounded great, played great, and I am very happy with it. I WOULD HAVE NEVER BOUGHT IT IN THE CONDITION IT WAS IN WHEN IT WAS GIVEN TO ME. It would be like being shown a new car with two flat tires and a dead battery. Store owners beware, people wont pay good money for what appears to be junk.
That's my two cents.
Bailey |
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin | Seems like we've discussed this once or twice before but I remember talking about putting guitars in front of your speakers and playing music to vibrate the tops. Don't use rap or opera, it makes them sound worse.
I also remember seeing a clip on PBS,I think, about a guy in the Northwest US that developed a machine to "break-in" guitars quickly by vibrateing the tops. I think Paul T. might have talked about this method too. |
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Location: Scotland | That machine was called "the Shaker" and while it proved a point my attitude towards it is pretty much the same as my attitude to "relic" Fenders. I'd much rather play it in myself. |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Bailey, I'm open to either viewpoint about whether a new guitar needs "playing in". I didn't think that it would really be necessary, but after my experience with the 1777 and the new LX, I really couldn't think of another explanation. I presume that the new strings are "played in" at the factory before shipment.
Bailey, that's a great story about your mandolin and congratulations!!!
Also....Bailey, I was thinking of you Tuesday morning....I had to go to a organization-wide "rah-rah"(communication and morale boosting) meeting that lasted all morning...at the conference center where it was held, they had put a 2005 Mustang prototype and a Ford GT prototype in the lobby, so I got my first good looks at both. Nice!!!!
Also, Brad, ain't no way I'm getting a new Mustang....they are lousy bicycle haulers, which is my prime requirement for my ride. I have 5 "sports cars", and they all have two wheels....
Roger
1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String
1978 Ovation 1617-4 Legend 6-string
1981 Ovation 1118-1 Glen Campbell 12-string
2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String
2003 Ovation 1777-NAT Legend 6-string |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Once again, Paul M and Paul T are correct and W2 has way too much time and resources on his hands! :D |
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Location: south east Michigan | I guess Roger won't be sending me his new guitars to "work in" for him. Oh well.
I'm sure that guitars take years to show signs of a "mature" sound.
I think that percieved sound changes in the first few weeks is more about the player making adjustments.
Kinda like the first kiss on the first date. It may take a few trys. But then......lookout.
Brad |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Roger
I am impressed by what I see of the Ford GT, and I saw something recently of a Ford prototype that I immediately said I would sell my house and buy it when it appears on the market but I can't remember what it was. Any idea of what I saw, it impressed my 50's adolescent mind?
The point I was trying to make, and I think an important one, is that a good instrument will sound good from day one if properly set up. If an instrument doesn't sound good, be extremely wary as it may never sound good no matter how long it ages.
Bailey |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | That Ford GT looks absolutely Killer!! I understand they are 130K and will have a wait list that's very long. A dealer friend has said he recieved a request from another dealer and would buy every GT40 that could be supplied to him for 60K over list. That kills that idea....... |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Bailey, what you probably saw was the new Cobra show car that debuted at the Detroit International Auto Show in January. I didn't go to the show, so I didn't see it, but a spare engine for it was on a pallet in our garage(I work in Advanced Powertain) a couple of weeks ago. Very impressive looking V-10, with all sorts of cool-looking manifolding.
I agree with your point, if an instrument doesn't sound good in the first place, I wouldn't buy it with the hope that it will sweeten up. That is why I bought the 1777 over the SE LX.
I've not noticed ANY sweetening-up of any of the guitars I've bought new. Not that I've noticed, at least. The 1777 sounded good new, and it still does, although it lost a tiny bit of depth when I went from the OEM .012"-.053" EXPs to the .011"-.052" Phosphor Bronze D'Addarios.
cwk2, FoMoCo is supposed to be rationing the GTs to dealers to PREVENT what the one dealer is trying to do!!!! If they get wind of it, they may "have a talk with him". But then, dealers seem to be a force unto themselves, anyway. There is only so much the company can do.
Only bigger dealers are supposed to even get ONE GT, and even then, not every one can get one. The first year's production is supposed to be already sold out(so us employees were told).
And they have already told employees "no A-plan" on them (employee discount). :D
Roger
1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String
1978 Ovation 1617-4 Legend 6-string
1981 Ovation 1118-1 Glen Campbell 12-string
2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String
2003 Ovation 1777-NAT Legend 6-string |
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Posts: 1380
Location: Central Oregon | "If an instrument doesn't sound good, be extremely wary as it may never sound good no matter how long it ages."
"I agree with your point, if an instrument doesn't sound good in the first place, I wouldn't buy it with the hope that it will sweeten up."
Same can be said about a potential spouse :)
Sorry about the c&p still 1 handed
/\/\/ |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Isn't it our nature for a woman to marry a man thinking she can change him and a man marrying a women hoping that she never changes!
M(wish you a speedy recovery and wondering where the Norseman went)Woody |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Roger
THAT WAS IT!!! A 10 cylinder Cobra is temptation enough to get me to meet robert Johnson and the Devil at the crossroads and sell my soul for the Cobra. I already know how to play bluegrass, so I can't gain much from the Devil from the playing standpoint.
I just saw the TV showing of "Oh Brother..." last night and was impressed by the music but appalled by the portrayel of southern musicians. It seems like it was more influenced by "Tobacco Road" than the recordings that exposed us to musicians like Huddy Ledbetter, Robert Johnson, Jimmy Rogers, The Carter Family, etc..
I would choose a car like the 10 cylinder Cobra to haul me to the graveyard as I would not be able to lay still as expected, but would insist on driving no matter how dead I was.
Now for the mystery of life, my Mother's name was Johnson just like Robert, but she was of the Irish minority, the mandolin my grandson bought me is labeled "Johnson" and has "Made in China" on the label. It is a perfect copy of a Gibson F model that Jeff, a member of our Poway Bluegrass Club, bought for $1100 in the 70's, and even sounds like it. The headstock has an absolutely beautiful mother of pearl inlay, but haven't Chinese been doing inlays for 2 or 3000 years? I have visions of Chinese communes turning out Les Pauls on a five year plan until they get it right and destroying western civilization as we know it.
Get well Nils, your message comes through loud and clear even when you're crippled.
Bailey
I typed this frantically the second time after I spent 20 minutes on it and lost my connection before I could post it. |
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Location: NJ | We're in the process of moving in the NY AutoShow right now. In fact, the "Press Preview" is tomorrow. Think I'll take a ride over . . . . . |
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Location: New Jersey | How old are the strings? I was told the reason Taylor ships their guitars with Elixir strings is because they last longer and make the guitar sound better when they are being tried in the store. |
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| Okay, yes it does take some time for a guitar to get its "sound". This is not breaking it in. It is called "stabilizing", and that is when a guitar gets to vaporize off all of the solvents used to finish and build the guitar, and then gain moisture to the point where the wood has achieved a balance of moisture and complete curing of the finish components. This takes a bit of time, and modern mass-production techniques push guitars out the door long before they stabilize. On top of that, they are put in a case which produces a closed atmosphere with no air movement and very little air volume. The guitar will then stabilize in this environment until it is taken out of its case. Anyone who has done that has been hit in the face and nose with the release of fumes from that closed atmosphere. Once a guitar is hung up in the store, or on a stand, it will start to finish the curing process and gain moisture. At this point, guitars often sound "thin", but given several days to several weeks depending on the finish and woods, the guitar will stabilize and will usually sound better than when it first came out of the case. Another thing that guitars need to do after being built is called "relaxing". The guitar is built is certain conditions, and the bracing and other stress related components are installed under those same conditions. Once those conditions change, in the form of temperature and humidity, the wood must move and respond to those changes before it finds a comfort zone. Often times you will be doing something and your guitar, sitting on a stand, will suddenly let out a snap, creak, or even a loud POP. You check your guitar and see nothing out of the ordinary. This is the top "relaxing" in response to the changing conditions. It will stop doing this after it has completely "relaxed" and will usually never make another wierd sound again, unless that is what your playing sounds like. Playing a guitar will sometimes accelerate the "relaxing" process, but I personally believe that the more you play a guitar, the better it sounds. It gets "broken in", and just starts to sound smooth and inviting.
My $.02
Mike Overacker
Luthier - Gazer Guitars
www.gazerguitars.com
www.ovationcollector.com
2003 Collector
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Does a new guitar require "playing in" from a sound standpoint???
