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December 2003
Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA | Let me open up my observations to and for the Board. What I gather from some recent posts and the changes in what I can see is that the Adamas assembly line is not constant, but is done seasonally/ or as needed.
One noticable change was the newer Mellissa E 12 string:
MERB 12 with OP Pro
I know my world is small but I have not seen any excitement over the new shaped "Q". It may be because I hang out with a bunch of wood top enthusiasts, bless your hearts.
At what point will the carbon tops be put on lighter bodies (mids no doubt) with ANS necks?
And finally - what is the difference with the textured tops vs. others?
My wife and I have discussed that upon my retirement in 11 years we could sell out and move to Hartford CT where I could go to work for the Factory. In the mean time all I have is speculation :(
What say the Board? |
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December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | mom taught me if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anthing at all. |
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June 2002
Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ | IMHO: The real "Q" is a dead dog. Probably won't ever see the light of day. The protos I played at the factory all sucked. O did the wise thing and chose to focus on wood topped traditional guitars (Legend LX). The Adamas with the "Q" soundholes is not actively marketed. That's an understatement - is any O actively marketed? The factory is loaded based on orders. If the big boxes and distributors want Balladeers, that's what the factory will load up on. I imagine orders for Adamas are scant, to put it kindly. To me, Adamas died long ago when they stopped making the textured tops (yeah, I know you can still order one if you really want it). O seems to have a history of killing off their best models and not replacing them with something better (deep bowl Legend, 12 fret slotheads, deep elites, adamas, ...)
Sorry to sound so cynical. I bet reading this you would never guess what a huge Ovation fan I am. It just really bothers me in all walks of life to see wasted potential. The LX is hopefully the fountain of youth for Ovation, and not just life support. But they have to get their act together and spread LX into DEEP F**KING BOWLS !!!! If LX is so damn good, why is it not standard on their top of the line instruments (Adamas, AD ???)
Rant over ... click |
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January 2004
Posts: 648
Location: Florida | I've some production experience here, so let me add my two cents.
As can be imagined, it is highly inefficient for factories to make all products all the time. The whole idea of a _factory_ is to make things efficiently!
Ok so what do you do when you can build say... three of four models at a time? Well, one thing is to warehouse the stock, but thats dead money. The better way is to offer your best customers (or maybe all customers) "incentives" to place early orders. The way it works is the reps take orders to be filled on a certain future date. The factory then knows what it must gear up to produce, and makes enough to fill those orders, plus a little extra. On the other hand, the dealers are bound to take what they order, and can order more, but delivery is not gauranteed.
I'd be VERY suprised if Ovation doesn't do something similar in concept to this.
Al, care to elaborate? |
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November 2002
Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Dave, you reminded me of a situation I had with Ovation a few years ago. Since the only guitar I really used was my Adamas, I thought it would be cool to get a new Legend to go with it. I had not looked at an Ovation catalog in years, so I had no idea what models were being made. I went to the music store and told the guy there I wanted a natural deep bowl Legend. He handed me the catalog and there were no deep bowl Legends. Wait, there was one no electric one you had to special order. I had the guy call Ovation and I got on the phone with someone there. I can't remember who he was, but I do remember what he said. He told me that Ovation was a "stage" guitar, and that my Adamas was from another era at Ovation. I was like "what the.......????? This was really an eye opener for me. But now my favorite guitar is a mid-bowl Legend LX. It is everything I could want in a guitar. If the deep bowl model sounds better than this, bring it on! (lol) :p |
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December 2003
Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA | Two add-ons:
First - There are a lot more living rooms, Family rooms, garages or what have you than there are stages in this world. Everyman has one.
Second - I have no problem getting extremely excited over what an Aero Engineer and an Economics Major with a love of guitars can pull off. I think I'm in good company there. If I feel a certian amount of "Ownership" it's in part because of what they have generated. The frustration AND excitement over where MY company is going must be a natural byproduct.
Let us look ahead in hope for this next era.
And if we don't get what we want!!!! |
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April 2004
Posts: 234
Location: Phoenix, AZ | I'm confused. Why don't people think the LX is the future of Ovation? Certainly it doesn't make any sense to keep making two kinds of bowls, necks, pickups or preamps. Nor does it make any sense to keep making three kinds of non-center sound holes (outlaid epaulets, inlaid epaulets and Q holes). Since the Legends and Elites are the most popular non-Adamas top of the lines, doesn't it make economic sense to get the LX changes into these models as soon as possible? Isn't that what Ovation has done? Therefore, doesn't it make sense Ovation has a timetable to bring the LX changes into the rest of their lines? Likewise, after the Q holes are fully worked out, doesn't it make sense to expand them as epaulet replacements through the rest of the lines? Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my guess as to what will happen. |
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December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | How it goes...
guitars are shown at the Namm show. Orders are taken. The dealers not reached at the namm show are then contacted for orders.
The LX guitars are a huge success. there are a ton of orders for them and the factory has to fill these orders. The same happened with the 30th anniv CL all made were sold. If I want an LX anything I have to wait. Same as anyone else. The pending orders have to be filled.
How can you expect a company to NOT make what they have backordered? it make NO sense at all to do that.
The Q is not dead IMHO. If it was not for the Q you would not have seen some of the stuff in the LX. Can I say that the Q will come out soon or it will never come out, no I don't have that information.
As for the CVT with the Q sound holes, It is not my favorite guitar. I think it was released to keep the Q spirit alive. Unfortunately it does not meet up to the expectations of the potential of the Q and for all intents and purposes is a Q in name only. My advice is Buy one and put it in your closet. |
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Posts: 389
Location: RI. That small State out East | (IMHO)
Adamas textured top is the best sounding Ovation made.
The Mother Ship got away from it for a reason... Maybe cost? It wasn't supply.
This textured top found on Adamas 1 models has been available and being sold to the Japan market for years. On the 2003 tour I was shocked to see them being made.
No mention of price and no price list... Soooo, it was my thought that it must be "expensive".
The past few years (I believe) the "O" leadership has maintained a "goal" to build and deliver under $2,000.00. Yes, we can pump up a MSRP...But, a $2,400.00 still comes in around $1,850.00 (30th CL example)
I read recently that last year the auto industry had 18 cars available over $100,000... This year that number is over 100 cars available.
I believe we need the Adamas line to push the dream. IT'S TIME!
A carved head, cut away, textured top, deep bowl... This is your Adamas anniversary guitar. Add an acoustic only slot head as a choice.
This wont be cheep. It will be special.
I'm sure something like this is being talked about. I'm also sure "we" can't keep up on the LX demand. A good and bad problem to have.
Just my thoughts.
Woz |
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March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | This is an interesting discussion and is a variation on a theme that reocures here on a regular basis. For all of us, it's a best guess situation.
My own personal best guess is that Ovation made the decission to go for the "stage"market along with the entry level market. Deep bowls went away and supershallow bowls and Celebs came on strong. They were selling guitars so how could they be wrong?
But the deep bowl Adamas didn't fit into the picture. There was probably no budget left over to promote it and it wasn't a profit center. The solution was to make it less expensive and again, promote it as a performers guitar. I don't think that worked.
Now Ovation is making a comeback (or trying to) as a great acoustic guitar. Not plugged in acoustic, but just acoustic. They have to change people's perceptions about them. When they do that, an old style deep bowl Adamas can't be far behind. |
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December 2001
Posts: 7222
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | My Observations....
1. The Q is not dead, it is the constant prototype. As stated, much of the LX is derived from the research on the Q. Many of the elements and designs of the Q are fantastic, but the sound itsn't there. Someday it will be, of that I am sure, but for now, as useful technology is uncovered via the Q experimemts, it becomes available.
2. I was going to comment on the textured top, but that is all just opinion. I will say that last year I saw MANY posts about several BRAND NEW deep bowl textured top guitars that were available. I believe they all went to Japan eventually where people tend to put their money where their dreams are.... at least for guitars. |
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December 2003
Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA | Now that amps and instruments are modeling it must be impossible to hold a "Plugged In" advantage. There's probably a set up to make a "Sears" Classical sound like a Martin D45.
I prefer the "hands on beauty". I was able to play an FD 14 at a fellow Ovationists house the other day - It is awesome!
More of the same please! |
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December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | I have had textured top Adamas guitars available since last year. Most of the inquiries come from overseas buyers. Stop the whining. If you really wanted to buy one they are out there, of course there is not a bottom feeding price on them. |
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January 2004
Posts: 648
Location: Florida | Al, let me see if I have this correct. The NAMM show(s) are the big order generators for folks like Ovation, and if you didn't order then, you cant be gauranteed availablity later?
I'm assuming that during the year they must run some incentives too - ie, runs of stuff they made to keep the factory busy? Of course right now they dont seem to have THAT problem. |
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Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | Charlie
that is not the case. Usually there is stock available in the warehouse, you may not get the color you want but they are there. Currently with the LX they are filling orders. If you order them you get them if not they are backordered.
on occasion there are incentives but generally they are in the slow months or when there is a stock of FRGs or something that they want to move out of inventory. Just like any other business. |
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December 2001
Posts: 7222
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Charlie... just FYI... NAMM is twice a year. I would guess the sales force has a 6 month cycle be it planned or not. Take orders, fulfill orders, correct orders... repeat with a subset of this happening on a monthly basis too. Remember KMC is one of the (if not THE) largest distributer of musical instruments on the planet. |
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May 2004
Posts: 89
Location: Brentwood,TN | I had an Adamas I 12-string deep bowl non-cutaway in Beige made last December. M. Lammanna told me at the time that they only consider it a "custom" order . I ordered it and got it back in 5 weeks! It is definately the best sounding 12 string I have ever played! I am however,not of the mindset that the only kind of "O" is a deep bowl. I have several shallow custom elite 12's and they sound great! Sitting around playing non-amped sounds a little tingy, but eq through an amp properly sounds awesome... |
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January 2004
Posts: 648
Location: Florida | This all makes sense... and I know there is summer/winter NAMM shows.
Al, what you're saying makes sense. Need a Balladeer, probably no problem at all. Need a (less popular model) more restrictive. The point still is - and I think its validated - that factories cannot produce everything, all the time.
The fact that Ovation is willing to warehouse as much as they do, is a ANOTHER credit to their customer service. From what I hear, getting Fender and Gibby product is more hit and miss than anything. |
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Seasonal Adamas Production Rant?
