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Posts: 1225
Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | "re: In marketing terms, it's a sin to have the cheaper Celebrity guitars look nearly identical to the Adamas guitars."
I couldn't agree more. It's hard for most people to tell the difference between an "Applause" model and a U.S. made "Baladeer" just by looking. I think that Ovation should consider upgrading the "Applause" line to the level of the "Celebrity" and have all of the Guitars with the Ovation name be U.S made guitars. |
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June 2004
Posts: 95
Location: Monroe, Ohio (Cincinnati) | In my opinion, the only reason to confuse Celebrity by calling it Ovation is to sell more Celebrities. An attempt to capitalize on the Ovation Name. This may have been a calculated financial/marketing decision to sell more guitars at the expenxe of using up some of the market capital of the brand name.
When I bought my Applause in 1980, it was because it looked like and was made by the same company as an Ovation, but mostly because if fit my budget and I liked the guitar. It did not say and I did not confuse it with a real Ovation, even though it was manufactured in the U.S.
I have been shopping and trying a lot of Kaman roundback guitars over the last couple of months and the following has become apparent to me:
(Excluding Adamas models about which I am uninformed)
1. Best sound = deep bowl, solid wood top.
2. Lesser sound = Medium bowl, solid wood top.
3. Even lesser sound = Shallow bowl, solid wood top.
4. Still lesser sound = Laminate top.
5. Worst sound = Shallow bowl, Laminate top.
Some ignorant people may make a decision about Ovation based Celebrity or Applause guitars, but they are probably just as likely to make that judgement based on Indiana and other counterfit roundbacks.
WANT BEST ACOUSTIC SOUND = buy a deep bowl U.S. Ovation.
WANT GOOD ACOUSTIC SOUND AND MORE COMFORTABLE PLAYING POSITION = buy a mid bowl U.S. Ovation.
WANT TO PLUG IN MOST OF THE TIME, WITH JUST OK ACOUSTIC SOUND, AND WANT MOST COMFORTABLE PLAYING POSITION = shallow bowl U.S. Ovation.
WANT TO PLUG IN MOST OF THE TIME AND SOUND LIKE CRAP ACOUSTICALLY = shallow bowl import. (Laminate top)
Different woods, bracing, sound hole configuration, etc. will have some effect, but is more about personal likes than actual sound quality.
That is why I picked up an 1861 shallow bowl Balladeer to plug in for P&W. Fit the budget, won't cry if I get a ding hauling it around, should do the job nicely. I have other guitars to play acoustically.
It is ok to be uninformed, but to make decisions or form opinions upon something you are uninformed about is what I believe they call ignorant.
Play 'em all, listen to 'em all, get informed, choose the right tool for the job, ignore the ignorant people. (That's what ignorant people are for.) |
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December 2003
Posts: 95
Location: Fort worth Texas | I understand where you guys are coming from but I still have to say I am getting way better than just an OK sound out of my shallow bowl 1867 Legend,..... maybe mine is deffective |
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February 2004
Posts: 116
Location: Freeport, IL | Hey,
Just received my Glen Campbell Artist Balladeer 1127-4 from Tony Calman. I also have an Adamas SMT and very recently owned an Elite 1537. The 1127 with a shallow bowl compares very favorably to either of the aforementioned guitars. It has plenty of bass response and beautiful trebles - great sustain. This particular model has no pick-up of any kind. I don't know if this contributes to the amazing acoustic sound of this shallow body or not, but, the 1127 rocks hard.
Regards,
Jon Van Gilder
Freeport, IL |
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March 2002
Posts: 873
Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | Originally posted by Billy Blaze:
I understand where you guys are coming from but I still have to say I am getting way better than just an OK sound out of my shallow bowl 1867 Legend,..... maybe mine is deffective
i have to agree, and so do allot of my musicial friends when i play my ss 83 collectors series. i must admit it has the tightest grain top i have ever seen, but it is still one fine ss guitar plugged or unplugged. and the electronics are the stack knob type that i scavenged from a folklore (the powertools are dangerous to your guitar's health guitar i bought for the case and parts). the adamas ss 12 string bill sold me (prototype) is hands down the most crystalline sounding 12 i have ever played. it is exactly like what i think a 12 should sound like. never muddy, and always super clear individual tones from each string. never played a deep bodied one, but moody pi says i need to try his deep adamas 12. i'm sure i'll be impressed, but still, mine never lacks what it needs to cut through the mix, and make a distinctive statement.
i do agree 100% that ovations economy line (still a hell of a guitar for someone starting out) needs to look different than the expensive older brothers in the line. make them distinct and dont pump the econo line to be something it isn't. i remember a guy getting up to play on open mic night here with a black celebrity special (limited?) edition. from a distance i thought "wow, there is a guy with some bucks and good taste". it actually sounded pretty good too, but not like what it was made to copy. my elite standard is plain jane by comparison, but has a better tone. it is rare to see other ovations down here. i guess i was a little dissappointed it wasn't like one of those top of the line elites, but ya know, he loved it and it coaxed some good music out of him. maybe i was the only one there that was disapointed. |
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September 2004
Posts: 21
Location: Lawrenceville, Ga. | Hmmm...I guess my Elite T is also one of the flukes. Even with the coated top it was the unplugged sound that pulled me in first. It's gotten even better after a dozen or so gigs in varied weather conditions. Very balanced, plenty of bass, great projection out front. Maybe not quite as loud as my old D-15, but surely loud enough for 'unplugged' jams with other guitars. I mainly play plugged in though, even when at home, to stay consistent with that sound and tone. But I do love the unplugged sound as well. My own not-so-shallow front won't allow me to play deep bowls any more unless I want to end up playing lap slide (or would that be more like belly slide?). |
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February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | The current Elite-T has a mid-bowl, I'm not aware of a super-shallow version. The tonal diference between mid & deepbowls is pretty subtle |
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February 2002
Posts: 1817
Location: Minden, Nebraska | I had an 1868T with a shallow bowl. It surprised me with its tone -- quite good for the price, but it didn't have quite the depth of the mid-depth bowl model. |
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May 2004
Posts: 8
Location: Pennsylvania | I don't know that I have anything to contribute other than more folklore.
Had an old - mid 70's Ovation (stolen out of a car in a hotel parking lot at 5a.m. in DC in 87) which was what I'd call a "canonical" Ovation. My only complaint was that the sound went out from the guitar, and not much came up to me - as a singer, that was a real drag.
I played an Ibanez for the past 12 years - it had deep rich full tones, and at 12 years old, was a nice guitar. A year ago I put a Fishman pickup in it, and plugged in it was also rich.
This May, I picked up a CE 868 shallow bowl (maybe its a super shallow bowl?) and I agree that it is less impressive unplugged, to be sure. This may be as much because the quality plugged in is _so_ good, that the comparison leaves you tricked.
However, it's certainly rich and balanced, even unplugged. Its just not as loud and does not have quit as much low-end when its not plugged in.
However, this one I can hear when I play it (I'm guessing its because the face of the guitar is 2 or 3 inches closer to my body than it was on the old one). This feature I really like.
I'm not prepared to give it up, that's for sure.
Ray |
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February 2004
Posts: 2487
| I guess I have not owned nor tried enough of the other Ovation models to have an "educated opinion" but I can say I used to own a deep bowl, classical ovation, that put most traditional classical guitars in their place. It had a rich full clear sound. And although it is an unfair comparison, My 6 string Elite with a shallow bowl can not compare with the Adamas I have now. I know there are some big differences between these two guitars but I fell it's the bowl size that makes the most noticable sound difference in these guitars.
From what I have heard played "at me" from the audience side of music I find the Ovations all seem to cut through the mix but it is the deep bowl models that have the fuller sound that I am impressed with.
These guitars are still so unique in their style, especially the multi-hole models, that I think the audience notices these when they are played and they are concentrating on what sound they have much more than they do with a standard acoustic guitar. If you see what I am trying to say?
On a solo piece it would be difficult for me to tell you what guitar is being used. If there are two guitars playing side by side and one is an Ovation I can hear the difference right away. In a band situation I think many acoustics are just kind of lost in the mix but when you use an Ovation and you see it and your watching the guy play it you here the sounds it has more clearly because your attention is more focused. That may explain why Ovations seem to have to answer to what they sound like more than traditional guitars do? I am amazed the outright dislike shown by other musicians for these guitars ( I think it's because they are an attention getter's)! and then on the other side the following they have with guy's & girls like us?
Ya Love em or Ya hate em
"Plugged In" these guitars can do so much. I am experimenting now with the Acoustic amp and a Mic at the same time and trying to blend the two sounds together through the board. If I can swing it one of those new Bose units would sound great as a seperate unit from the rest of the band for the acoustics only!
But that was another thread.
Randy |
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Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ | There are dozens and dozens of factors that effect how an acoustic guitar will sound. IF and I stress IF! all other factors could be made the same, then a deeper bowl should sound louder and more bottom end then a supershallow bowl. But that is not always the case. Every guitar has its character. Some Ovations are great and some suck. Same is true of other brands as well. Go listen to a plywood Martin with the Micky Mouse paint job! If anything, I would say the Ovation line is somewhat compressed, which is not necessarily a bad thing. What I mean is that the worst Ovation doesn't sound as bad the other crappy guitars on the market. And the best Ovation maybe doesn't sound as good as the best from Collings, Taylor, Larrivee, Martin, etc. But with Ovation at least you know what you are getting. With others, the sound can very a lot from one to the other of the SAME model. |
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October 2004
Posts: 14
Location: Ca | I think the shallow bowls serve a purpose: they are comfortable to play standing up and they are designed to sound good plugged in. They are made for a specific purpose. No, they are not going to sound as deep and rich as a good Martin, Taylor, or high-end Ovation. They are made so that we can justify having more than one guitar to our spouses.
Guy ;) |
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December 2003
Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | Re: "They are made so that we can justify having more than one guitar to our spouses."
Congratulations Bassguy! Only your second post and you have nailed the issue!
Diversification of Product exists so that a few will have the right tool but many will have more toys, choices and opinions!
Here we meet often but we are not looking for a cure! |
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March 2002
Posts: 873
Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | Originally posted by Bassguy:
I think the shallow bowls serve a purpose: they are comfortable to play standing up and they are designed to sound good plugged in. They are made for a specific purpose. No, they are not going to sound as deep and rich as a good Martin, Taylor, or high-end Ovation. They are made so that we can justify having more than one guitar to our spouses.
Guy ;)
i have around 50 stringed instruments, and when i arrive with something new, z9every trip to the states) kathleen doesn't even roll her eyes anymore. we have a house which i am in right now that we both refer to as the guitar house. "they are a good investment and our grandson will have them all someday" is a good spouse convincer. |
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February 2004
Posts: 2487
| "They are made so that we can justify having more than one guitar to our spouses."
Nope I ran it by the wife and shallow bowl or not it ain't gonna fly!
Dam though you had something there too!
Randy |
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January 2003
Posts: 1498
Location: San Bernardino, California | Just a thought:
With the introduction of the Viper, wouldn't the shallow bowl be competing with it? |
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October 2004
Posts: 180
Location: Chicagoland | Perhaps the Celebrity line could consist of Ovation's shallow bodies with laminated tops. But in addition, there should also be a substantially different look. The Celebrity line should not even reference the Ovation name. In marketing terms, it's a sin to have the cheaper Celebrity guitars look nearly identical to the Adamas guitars. It confuses customers.
But think back to the poor and young ones like me. I fell in love with my mid-depth Celebrity becuase of it's unplugged sound. It made me fall in love with Ovation guitars in general, and I'm dreaming of the Adamas and the Elite, but I won't have enough money for one of those for many years yet.
How well would Ovation fared if the only thing a poor, young (and most people start out playing young) buyer could afford was a shallow bowl Ovation. It's not as if we have the money for an amp to see how beautiful they sound plugged in.
We fall in love with Ovation only if we can actually afford one. |
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February 2002
Posts: 1817
Location: Minden, Nebraska | BruDev wrote: "With the introduction of the Viper, wouldn't the shallow bowl be competing with it?"
I don't think so. The applications may overlap, but they are obviously very different guitars. I am one who is blessed with good sounding shallowbowl Ovations, and I use my Legend or Elite on occasion in group settings. My Viper would never be suitable without an amp and I prefer the natural sound, anyway. I have used a Viper on occasion in my band, but then must rely completely on my monitor to hear myself. With my shallowbowls, I can still hear my guitar even in pretty high SPL environments. |
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Shallow body Issues: Subjectivity
