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Balladeer 12 String

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clrules
Posted 2019-10-08 2:16 PM (#550048)
Subject: Balladeer 12 String


Joined:
September 2005
Posts: 138

Location: Birmingham, AL		I have just received a 1968 Balladeer 12 string in need of some TLC.
Good stuff - low fret wear, fingerboard in very good condition, excellent neck set and neck isn't twisted.
Not so good stuff - many top wood cracks and it looks like the guitar is dried out the top is sunken but with an Ovation you never know....also the big transverse brace of the fan between the bridge and the soundhole is about 50% loose. From what I can tell the other braces look solid except for one near the transverse brace that is cracked in a small place. The rosette is also delaminating but what's new about that?
This is new ground for me. This could be a very nice guitar given the neck and bowl are in such good shape.
I am thinking about the order I should proceed:

1. hydrate and see where the cracks go
2. repair cracks as much as I can
3. re-glue braces

Does this seem to be a good order to follow?

Another question what type of glue did Ovation use for the braces. If it is epoxy will hide glue work for the repair?


Edited by clrules 2019-10-08 2:41 PM




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clrules
Posted 2019-10-08 2:32 PM (#550049 - in reply to #550048)
Subject: Re: Balladeer 12 String


Joined:
September 2005
Posts: 138

Location: Birmingham, AL		dual post......

Edited by clrules 2019-10-08 2:33 PM
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DanSavage
Posted 2019-10-08 2:56 PM (#550050 - in reply to #550048)
Subject: RE: Balladeer 12 String



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2315

Location: Pueblo West, CO
clrules - 2019-10-08 12:16 PM

I have just received a 1968 Balladeer 12 string in need of some TLC.

...

I am thinking about the order I should proceed:

1. hydrate and see where the cracks go
2. repair cracks as much as I can
3. re-glue braces

Does this seem to be a good order to follow?

Another question what type of glue did Ovation use for the braces. If it is epoxy will hide glue work for the repair?


Sounds like a good way to proceed to me.

Ovation used epoxy for pretty much everything, including braces.

If you're talking about fixing the split brace, then yes, you could use hide glue.

If you're talking about gluing a brace back down to the top, then you'll have to use epoxy.

If I were going to attempt this repair I would use Hysol 0151, mainly because of the long working time and because it's thixotropic and won't drip like hardware store epoxy could.

The only downside to Hysol is you need to buy the applicator gun which costs $25. McMaster-Carr does sell 0151 in tubes, but the problem is that unlike hardware store epoxy which is mixed 50:50, 0151 is mixed 2:1 (resin:hardener)
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Oldvation Guy
Posted 2019-10-08 3:40 PM (#550051 - in reply to #550048)
Subject: Re: Balladeer 12 String


Joined:
May 2011
Posts: 81

Location: Ozark, Arkansa		I have been thinking about what to do with a sunken top, and I would be inclined to buy one of those little screw jacks to put under the brace and lift up on it so it glues up where it needs to be. There is a way to do that with braces that have sagged and not come loose too. If the one brace is cracked you could make a cap/splint for the broken spot.

After you have rehydrated the top, the finish cracks may be able to be filled with thin CA glue, and then polished down. They probably will not be invisible, but it will keep the wood from flexing at the crack and breaking through the top.

Edited by Oldvation Guy 2019-10-08 3:43 PM
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clrules
Posted 2019-10-08 3:53 PM (#550052 - in reply to #550048)
Subject: Re: Balladeer 12 String


Joined:
September 2005
Posts: 138

Location: Birmingham, AL		Thanks, guys! I think I have an applicator for the Hysol 0151 I used it to glue down a top that had separeated from a bowl on a guitar a little while ago.
I just don't know where it is
But if it costs $25 a scavenger hunt is in order!
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clrules
Posted 2019-10-14 2:48 PM (#550134 - in reply to #550048)
Subject: RE: Balladeer 12 String


Joined:
September 2005
Posts: 138

Location: Birmingham, AL

I tried humidifying the top first to see if the cracks would close up and it made the bridge-to-endpin crack worse. It actually pooched out more. Really weird but Ovations aren't exacly your everyday guitar. It did sort of help the other ones. After assessing the guitar the cracks were probably made when the brace came loose and changed the stresses on the top. Sort of coincides with the big crack being on the bass side of the bridge where the loose brace is. And also being near the bridge screw which may have put additional pressure on that area of the top. The sad thing is that I really believe that most of the cracks could have been avoided if the brace had been reglued when it came loose.

I left the guitar on a stand in my house (50% RH) for a few days to let the guitar dehumiidify for a litte bit then used CA to fill and repair the soundboard cracks. It worked pretty well I just didn't put enough CA on the bridge--to-soundhole cracks to cover them whan I scraped off the excess CA when leveling. I had thought about re-doing the bridge-to-soundhole cracks, having to hand polish the top, so might do later if it really bothers me.

The big bridge-to-endpin crack did better. I decided not to cleat the crack because most of it runs right parallel to a brace and is almost impossible to get to because the soundhole is so small and I have big palms and short fingers. I can't even get my arm into the hole without running out of room quickly.

The other cracks I can get to and will probably cleat them.

After getting my inspection mirror and light into the guitar I could see the loose brace.

 

 I've never seen an Ovation with a bridge plate. Looks factory



Edited by clrules 2019-10-14 3:01 PM




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jay
Posted 2019-10-15 12:46 PM (#550154 - in reply to #550134)
Subject: RE: Balladeer 12 String



Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 1249

Location: Texas

 I've never seen an Ovation with a bridge plate. Looks factory

My 68 Glen Campbell 12 has a bridge plate...similar to your picture. 

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moody, p.i.
Posted 2019-10-15 3:53 PM (#550156 - in reply to #550048)
Subject: Re: Balladeer 12 String


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15664

Location: SoCal		My guess is that when a bridge was bolted down, a bridge plate was used. Just a guess.....
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DanSavage
Posted 2019-10-15 6:35 PM (#550157 - in reply to #550156)
Subject: Re: Balladeer 12 String



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2315

Location: Pueblo West, CO
moody, p.i. - 2019-10-15 1:53 PM

My guess is that when a bridge was bolted down, a bridge plate was used. Just a guess.....


A good guess.

There's no way the spruce top could withstand the tightening of a small nut like that without the nut being pulled all the way through the top.
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clrules
Posted 2019-10-17 5:06 PM (#550176 - in reply to #550048)
Subject: Re: Balladeer 12 String


Joined:
September 2005
Posts: 138

Location: Birmingham, AL		Pretty cool. So I have seen most Ovation sunburst guitars have screws or at least the pearl dots on the bridge and most natural tops don’t given the same model one has s/b and the other natural?
Is that because of using maybe weaker tops for sunbursts?
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DanSavage
Posted 2019-10-17 5:37 PM (#550177 - in reply to #550176)
Subject: Re: Balladeer 12 String



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2315

Location: Pueblo West, CO		Not weaker tops. My understanding is it's because of weaker glue joints between the bridge and top due to the coloring added to the top.
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clrules
Posted 2019-10-18 10:22 AM (#550184 - in reply to #550048)
Subject: RE: Balladeer 12 String


Joined:
September 2005
Posts: 138

Location: Birmingham, AL

Brace gluing and now the wait. I couldn't get all the old glue off so here's hoping it will be enough.

 





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clrules
Posted 2019-10-18 10:24 AM (#550185 - in reply to #550177)
Subject: Re: Balladeer 12 String


Joined:
September 2005
Posts: 138

Location: Birmingham, AL

DanSavage - 2019-10-17 5:37 PM Not weaker tops. My understanding is it's because of weaker glue joints between the bridge and top due to the coloring added to the top.

 

Okay that makes sense. I always wondered why they did that.

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jay
Posted 2019-10-18 10:34 AM (#550186 - in reply to #550048)
Subject: Re: Balladeer 12 String



Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 1249

Location: Texas		Serial?
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clrules
Posted 2019-10-19 6:13 AM (#550189 - in reply to #550048)
Subject: Re: Balladeer 12 String


Joined:
September 2005
Posts: 138

Location: Birmingham, AL		A-322
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