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Location: Virginia | After years of internal debate, I've decided to part with my 1974 1115-4 12-string. It has spent much of its recent life in the case in a closet - a sad place for it, indeed. So, I got it out to photograph it and check on its current condition. Pretty good for a 40 year old guitar, but in checking the neck, I have found that it is twisted.
I was quite bummed when I saw the twist. Not just because of the loss of any value, but because it's otherwise in pretty good shape and I hate to see things like this in disrepair. So my question is, what should I do? Should I try to repair it or sell it as is? CAN I repair it? If so, how much work is involved? Is it worth the effort?
I would appreciate your opinion.
Thanks,
Mike
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | It is not an easy, nor quick, repair. A longitudinal twist is a distortion in the wood fibers, around a central axis. To remedy this problem, essentially, reversing the torsional forces is necessary. So, you need to put the poor thing in "traction", and apply an opposite force on the twist, in a long-term "attitude adjustment". I fabricated a device, several years ago, to do just that, on a 1113 Classical model, as I recall. Took about 3 weeks, of continual & incremental correction, & then it was not altogether perfect, after all that, but playable. The other option would be to lift the fretboard, plane the neck level, & probably replace the fretboard, with a straight one. Good luck, with both removing the neck, & finding a 12-fret replacement.Selling it to an ambitious, & fearless, shadetree luthier, like some of my brethren around here, might be the best option. Heck, they might even volunteer to repair it for you! |
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Location: Virginia | Thanks for the detailed response. It definitely sounds like an easy decision for me - she'll have to go "as-is". Fortunately, it's in pretty good shape otherwise, so it's still a good guitar to own for the right person.
Again, thanks for taking the time to respond.
Mike
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Location: Atlanta, GA. | Place an ad in the For Sale forum for another neck. Someone might have a good one laying around. |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | If someone was to get real creative, they might put a 6-string neck on it. "Grafter" was an 1115 I obtaines, with a missing peghead, for which I made a replacement, slotted head, but with 6 strings. Essentially, became an 1114 Folklore. |
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Location: Virginia | You guys are way more ambitious than I am! Although it does sound like it could be fun - if I had more time to tackle something like that...
Mike
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | This kind of re-engineering is a daunting task, and done right, should probably go to The MotherShip, if they would be willing. Otherwise, deconstruction & reconstruction of this type, I would assign to DanSavage, or MWoody. I've never had the best luck, getting those dovetail neck joints apart. But, that's what is probably required. |
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Location: Utah | The textbook answer is probably as seesquare described, removing the fretboard and planing the neck, then reinstalling the fretboard. |
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Location: Indiana | Question for the gurus... assuming it's not a massive twist that exceeds the depth of the fretboard, why not remove the frets and plane the fretboard? |
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Location: Virginia | The fretboard is arched. Wouldn't that make planing it difficult? Also, I suppose the dot inlays would pose a problem, too.
One suggestion I found was to loosen the string and truss rod tension for a few days to see if the twist is relieved at all. I did that a couple of days ago and I'm thinking it might be making a little difference (wishful thinking? Maybe!). As I examine it more closely, it also appears that the fretboard part of the neck might not be twisted very much at all. The head stock is clearly twisted when sighted against the body, but not a lot. So, my thought is to give a few more days and then tighten it back up, lubricating the truss rod nut so it doesn't bind, and see what happens.
I also saw a procedure on video that showed checking the twist with a bubble level. You find the center line of the fretboard, level it at one end, then check the other end to see if it, too, is level (and various places in between). I guess the trick there would be to make sure the level is dead center each time, so it's not affected by the arch in the fretboard. Does that sound like an appropriate measurement?
Mike
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Location: Utah | Jonmark Stone - 2015-02-12 11:59 AM
Question for the gurus... assuming it's not a massive twist that exceeds the depth of the fretboard, why not remove the frets and plane the fretboard?
IANAG (I am not a guru), but....
It depends on how bad the twist is. A small twist might be easy enough to correct with minor wood removal from the fretboard using a radius sanding block. The complication for me would be the radius of the fretboard, whereas the neck will have a flat surface. It would be easier to create a new planar surface on the neck rather than mess with the 3D geometry of the fretboard.
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Location: Jet City | Recycle: Wall hanger, lamp, oversized candle snuffer, etc... |
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Location: Virginia | damon67 - 2015-02-12 5:38 PM
Recycle: Wall hanger, lamp, oversized candle snuffer, etc...
Blasphemy, I say, blasphemy! |
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Location: Jet City | birdbath?
Just saying, unless the thing has some sentimental value, you could probably buy 2 of 'em used for what it'll cost to do the neck work. They can be found pretty cheap. |
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Location: Virginia | Yea, I agree. No real sentimental value, I've just had it a long time, it's otherwise in good shape, and I was bummed to discover the problem. But I'm hopeful it won't be too bad once I get it tightened back up in a few days.
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Well, cross your fingers.......
Could you alter the plane of the saddle, also? |
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Location: Fitzwilliam, New Hampshire | This sounds like a good Dan Erlewine question at Stew-Mac. He's got more answers to unique things like this than most. If the guitar is that old and you've had it that long, it be a good tinkering project to see if it can be brought back to life! Steaming it to get it movable and clamping it back to its original position? Maybe a local luthier has the tools to do it. A long shot but if you cannot get much for it as is, it could be salvageable while keeping it with all original parts. That depends on you! Good luck. |
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Location: Michigan | mikedj - 2015-02-12 1:40 PM
The fretboard is arched. Wouldn't that make planing it difficult? Also, I suppose the dot inlays would pose a problem, too.
One suggestion I found was to loosen the string and truss rod tension for a few days to see if the twist is relieved at all. I did that a couple of days ago and I'm thinking it might be making a little difference (wishful thinking? Maybe!). As I examine it more closely, it also appears that the fretboard part of the neck might not be twisted very much at all. The head stock is clearly twisted when sighted against the body, but not a lot. So, my thought is to give a few more days and then tighten it back up, lubricating the truss rod nut so it doesn't bind, and see what happens.
I also saw a procedure on video that showed checking the twist with a bubble level. You find the center line of the fretboard, level it at one end, then check the other end to see if it, too, is level (and various places in between). I guess the trick there would be to make sure the level is dead center each time, so it's not affected by the arch in the fretboard. Does that sound like an appropriate measurement?
Mike
Loosen the string and truss rod would be my first choice. I would also stick it in a case with a little humidifier for the time you let it sit. It may take more than a few days. I would give it a few weeks to a month. The truss rod and strings put a lot of stress on the neck and it may take a while to go back if it does at all. In any case you will have to do this to take the stress out of the neck to work on it. |
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Location: Virginia | Thanks for all the tips, they have been very helpful. I have not yet gotten around to checking the fretboard with a level, but I still plan to do that. I appreciate all the suggestions.
Mike
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What to do about a twisted neck on an 1115-4
