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Posts: 608
Location: Caribou, ME | Back in 2009 (I think) I bought Balladeer #093 on ebay fairly cheap. The top and bowl are in excellent condition, the top being made of multiple pieces of helicopter blade with no cracks or bulging, bridge solidly attached, bowl in wonderful shape...
The action was high and the truss rod quite tight. The fretwork was horrible; jagged edges, some unseated altogether, etc. I refretted it, at least up to the 14th fret. I placed it in a homemade jig that would pull the neck back somewhat, so that I could straighten the neck some. That did work, but the neck is just flat at the wrong angle. I don't see any collapsing of the top under the fingerboard extension; it's flat as a pancake. There is a definite angle change at the 14th fret; if it were a Gibson I would simply say the neck needs to be reset.
I sold it to Nick B in 2011; I was going through a tough time emotionally and I found some catharsis in getting rid of possessions. Nick can attest to the fact my fret job looked excellent and if you didn't know it had been refretted, it would never show. He can also attest to the high action.
Nick sold it back to me in late 2012. It has sat in the case ever since. I knew that would happen but I absolutely had to have it back and I have every intention of keeping it now.
I have read posts here where guitars have been sent back to the factory and rebuilt. I have yet to see ONE negative comment about the experience. My dilemna is this: If the neck on this guitar was shattered, twisted, mangled, and easily considered ruined, then I would have no aversion whatsoever to having the neck replaced. Because of it's crappy angle, you might as well say it's ruined, as it just plays like crap and therefore will never BE played. In a perfect world, the neck would be removed and reset like other guitars. It will, I assume, be bandsawed off, chiseled out, and a 2014 neck installed.
So then what would I have? Half a 1966 Ovation?
Do I preserve an unplayable guitar because aside from 14 frets and one tuner, it's original? Or do I have the neck replaced and actually get to use it?
If it were a 1990, I wouldn't be in this quandary. I think you know what I'm saying. So to those of you who have had old shiny bowls "rebuilt", what are your thoughts? |
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Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Things... like people, aren't meant to last forever.
To allow those left to become valued and rare, a thousand other shiney bowls has to meet a tragic end.
The gazelle heard is culled of the weak, old, and diseased.
That's just the way it is young Simba.
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If you want a player, get it fixed but it will loose it's history.
Want conversation piece?... put together a historical plaque and hang it up on the wall.
Edited by Slipkid 2014-03-22 7:42 AM
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Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | That's gonna be the exact opposite of most of the Mothership re-builds. Usually, it's a soundboard that needs replacing and the soundboard comes with the bowl attached, so the only original thing they get back is the neck - with a shiny new body. It'll be interesting to see what they'll do with this one... |
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Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | If that's the way it goes, it will be interesting.
I wonder if it's more difficult to save the old top & bowl than a neck.
Getting the old neck off and getting the new on might put some pressures and torque on the bowl and top.
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Those shiney bowl re-issues are nice. |
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Posts: 3618
Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | "the top being made of multiple pieces of helicopter blade"
Out of wood?
As many of you are aware, I don't give up on much, in terms of resurrection, and take most of my inspiration from My Learned Colleague from Caribou.
Myself, I'd try to reset the neck (somehow). Retains the originality, and MAY return the playability. After that, I go with the wallhanger scenario. A 1966/2014 hybrid just loses its allure.
Just my $0.02, anyway.
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Posts: 608
Location: Caribou, ME | I know what I would LIKE to see done, understanding the neck will likely never come out in one piece. I would like to see the fingerboard shaved off and replaced with one with a slight taper.... a little thicker at the body end. The original board is very thin and probably not very strong, ergo the 'hinge' at the 14th fret to begin with. A new board with a little more meat to it would stengthen it up there, the installation of which will likely shift the neck back a little also, and if it's a little thicker at the body end it will bring the board up to meet the strings. If we're only talking 1/16 or so thicker at one end, it isn't likely to be noticed. I mentioned this to John B a year or more ago and I could sense him shrugging over the phone... his concern was finding someone who had the ability to taper a board. I know it can be done and has been done, based on a phone conversation with a guy at Martin about 30 years ago. I was rebuilding a 20's parlor guitar and he found me a fingerboard to fit. Not tapered, but that came up in conversation.
If I could do THAT, I would feel "less bad" about it going under the knife.
It's not worth a whole lot of money, it's just a shiny bowl, but it's a very early one! |
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Posts: 4051
Location: Utah | So is the bowl slightly bent, thus causing the high action? If so, perhaps a bowl-bend would fix the problem.
Presumably this is a glued in neck, right? So no chance of loosening a couple of bolts and removing it? |
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Posts: 13988
Location: Upper Left USA | Bowl Bend.
There is risk but also great potential for success.
Worst case is you have a Wall Hanger when you're done. |
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Posts: 608
Location: Caribou, ME | I've pondered a bowl bend but.... on a fiberglass bowl? |
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Posts: 1609
Location: Colorado | The way I read it...it isn't being played, so either make it playable, or hang it up. I understand John's hesitation over the phone..it is difficult to make those judgments without holding the sucker in your hands. I'll give you some perspective. I come from the foundation that for the longest time guitars were my tools - not works of art, or investments to sell later - even though I ended up with a guitar that met all those criteria. In 1985 I was working a lot playing guitar for a living. Wanted a 1537 in natural at the time (there are a lot more of those around now than then)...couldn't find one then, so I ended up buying SH #43 at one of George's stores in Atlanta. Though I knew what it was - at the time we could not figure out which one it was exactly because those original labels with Charlie's signature didn't stick very well. (Uncle Beal and Darren helped determine the Ser. #later). I bought it because it sounded great - played great - held tune...and was rugged (all necessary on the road). I learned quickly I needed more flexible and quieter electronics than the old stereo two-knobber system (not a slam...the rules in preamps and transducers were changing). So I had the Mothership update the electronics - in the end - it made it a better sounding instrument for my work. I still have it...and it is still #43...and anyone who knows about these suckers merely says...oh - you swapped out the electronics. The guitars I have - I play. There is a reason some great guitars are sold as "Player's Guitars".
One more example.
Owned a great Karmann Ghia convertible...(Cliff looked better in it than me)...but the sucker is and was always uncomfortable. I decided to put more comfortable seats and a kick-butt audio system in it. Was it OEM? Heck no...but I drove it a lot more...and had fun with it.
My two cents...fix it and play it...however...I understand those who buy for the collectablility and novelty...different purpose...still fair game reasoning. The only question remaining on # 43 is is there will be a war when I die....both ProfessorBB and my daughter want it! The wife suggested I be buried with it....Naw...guitars are for playing. I like Beal's unspoken comment in another thread...there were reason's probably that one SH was at the factory...and a different one his father preferred to play at home. |
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Posts: 3618
Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | FYI- another $0.02- I've had more success bending fiberglass bowls, than lyrachord.
Nice treatise, elginacres! |
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Posts: 887
Location: Always beautiful canyon country of Utah | Fix it and play it. A guitar is an instrument -- not a wall hanging. And as it is an old friend of yours you will be on much more intimate terms playing it than looking at it on the wall. And to me the face and bowl are more important than the neck!! It would be too lonesome hanging on the wall!! |
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Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I concur with Mark (and his comments about SH43). I borrowed it for maybe a month about six years ago and there still could be a vibration lingering in the bandroom as a result. I've never heard anything with more amazing sustain than No. 43. As for KSdaddy's question, I'd fix it and play it. More likely, I'd fix it then hang I up for gawking. Like Mark, I have some real "players" that I keep going back to. |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Who's Mark? |
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Posts: 13988
Location: Upper Left USA | C'mon Muzz... try to keep up will ya?
Mark is obviously Elginacres who owns SH43 and let Brad borrow it (both Coloradans).
KSDaddy - It's time to Jig up and get out the heat gun and the spray bottle! Fix it or melt it bro! |
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Posts: 1609
Location: Colorado | Glad you chimed in Brad (ProfessorBB)...Muzz...sorry every now and then those of us who have actually met each other face to face slip up and use our names! mark (Elginacres) |
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Location: SoCal | Mark, is #43 still your "go to" guitar? How much does it get played? |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | heat the bowl and bend it back, then let it cool. You'll need a new saddle after that but no biggie. |
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April 2003
Posts: 608
Location: Caribou, ME | I'm trying to get a visual on the procedure. I'm assuming I'd concentrate the heat just below the heel and maybe off towards the shoulders somewhat. But what's the purpose of the spray bottle? (The only dumb question is one that goes un-asked.) |
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Posts: 1609
Location: Colorado | Moody: yep...I actually have bought a couple others though...I usually only had the one...can't play more than one at a time...stay tuned...the basement reno is about done...then I'll be playing some others....I actually have to work playing professionally for a month or so in the summer of 15...so I'm trying to get my chops back. 43 is my player...I just am very comfortable with it. Holds tune..s.ustains...jangles...mojo...now if I could only learn my fourth and 5th chords... |
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Location: Texas | KSDaddy,
If you tackle the bowl-bend, PLEASE post photos and notes here afterwards?
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Posts: 6994
Location: Jet City | someone should do a youtube |
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December 2003
Posts: 13988
Location: Upper Left USA | spray bottle is for immediate cooling if you think you have heated too fast.
And to keep the cat out of the case... |
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Ethics - leave it be or make it work?
