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February 2010
Posts: 243
Location: Australia | Lads, I was blown away by Wizz's AER amp at the Downunderfest, and am looking at getting one. But at the same time, I am looking at getting a middle of the road PA system for a duet, trio type set up to be used with backing midi tracks.
In my previous band, the singer played his acoustic straight through the PA and sounded great, however he tried to do the same thing with his electric and sounded awful. On the other hand, I played my electric through my twin reverb, then mic'ed to the PA which sounded awesome, but the acoustic did not sound so great through the twin.
So my question.
Being a duet, trio, whatever we will have a stack of inputs left over. Should I play my twin with Strat LP, mic'ed to amp and then have a seperate input to pa for acoustic, or..is it worth it to get a acoustic specific amp (AER) then mic that to PA?
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September 2006
Posts: 275
Location: Canberra, Australia | Tricky..
historically, electrics to amp then mic'd to PA
Acoustics to DI to PA.
BUT, Wizz's amp was very tasty indeed. Crystal clear and a lovely tone.. And not huge too. Ticks a HEAP of boxes..
Personally, I'd DI the acoustic for simplicity of stage setup, not forgetting the mighty twin is gonna be there too..
Can U get a trial of prospective buys before committing - trying diff mixer/amps with diff speakers. That'd be awsome..
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February 2010
Posts: 243
Location: Australia | Ermmmmm.......DI?
As Pauline would say..."Please explain" |
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December 2001
Posts: 7223
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | If I may join in the party... ya'll are speak'n my language...
In a gig situation, an Acoustic is almost always going to sound better if you just send the signal to the PA via a DI.
However, there are some very valid reasons to have an acoustic amp on stage, and in that case, I would highly recommend the DI OUT (or line out through a DI or not depending on the setup) to the PA. The reason for the qualifiers of the "line out" to maybe go through a DI or maybe not, depends on the specific amp and the PA. My experience has been to generally use a DI on a line out, but I have seen amps that have a line out, that was just fine.
Back to the Acoustic Amps... a reason for having one on stage would be for monitoring. A very common setup is to have the Acoustic setup so you can hear yourself. The DI out goes to the PA for volume. You also might have effects in the amp that you like to use and want to hear. Again, you can make it sound exactly like you need... and the DI to the PA is handled by the FOH guy.
I would NOT put a mic on an Acoustic amp on a stage. You are just asking for feedback issues for one, but more importantly you are trying to get people to hear your GUITAR not that AMP.....
The reason most electric amps are mic'd is because the AMP is part of the sound. A significant part of the sound in most cases. On an acoustic, optimally you'd use a Microphone on the guitar, just like you would in the studio. But on stage, using a microphone on an acoustic guitar can be problematic so we Ovation folks (and others) use Microphones that are on the inside of the guitar. Think about it.. If you were in a a situation where you could mic an acoustic guitar amp on stage... wouldn't you be wiser to just mic the guitar itself?
This isn't the whole story, but I think it's enough to help if I may be so bold.. 
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February 2010
Posts: 243
Location: Australia | Yep makes perfect sense....but pardon my ignorance, what does DI stand for? |
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December 2001
Posts: 7223
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | DI = Direct Input. This wiki is actually a pretty good explanation.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DI_unit
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February 2012
Posts: 111
| Peter, The AER, like a few others has a DI output on it so you can run straight from the AER to a PA using the AER as your DI and also get the benefit of on stage monitor Miles is talking about. The AER (again like most good acoustic amps) has a few nice effects on board (2 reverbs and a chorus) as well as effects loop facility.
You may have also noticed I have a Tech21 electric guitar amp too. It is not a valve amp (cover your ears Dave) and it also has a DI that allows you run it straight into a PA for front of house control. I used to do this because it seemed easier than micing. The only issue is that the PA doesn't get the benefit of whatever the speaker contributes to the overall tone. That never bothered me but I can understand why it would bother others and why most professional set ups use mics on the elec guitar amps.
FWIW: The Tech 21 is made the people who brought us the SansAmp technology which is in effect a DI for electric guitars. They added a 60W amp on the back, a second channel and 2 x 12" Eminence spkrs to create a pretty nice combo package. |
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September 2006
Posts: 275
Location: Canberra, Australia | I gotta digress a little from the pack here..
To my humble opinion, acoustics should be a "pure" "clean" "uncoloured" as possible, hence direct to PA.
Yep, it's a line ball call whether U put it through an amp to give a specific tone (hey, I might even go as far as a tranny amp, given what I heard in the Wizz cave..!!LOL, but I will give myself twenty lashes for considering the heresy of non-valve amplification LOL LOL) ) or no. Somewhere back in the sands of time I formed the former opinion, and use on-stage monitors for foldback monitoring, but I DO concede there's an equally valid argument for going via an amp, ultimately personal preference plays a masive part.
Also, totally diff topic, but personally I really welcome Miles and others input. Everyones' got different opinions and experiences, and we melt them all together and make an informed opinion. Good stuff I say! |
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Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Use of the DI allows really long runs using low impedence XLR cable. They're mandatory when you're running to a house sound system 100's of feet away from the stage. All our signals are via DI to a satellite rack off stage, which then feeds the house system in the back of the hall. I understand the connection between the satellite system and the house board is CAT 5 or 6. Only for special occasions do I use a straight acoustic sound that bypasses my pedals. Most often, I'm using my own amp as a monitor with a built-in DI out for the house. I can feed the house either through the amp or the DI out on the board. Occasionally, I'll use the house monitor or an ear bud, but then I have to rely on the engineers to mix it right which they don't always do. My feeling is that I can't really control the house mix, but with my own amp as a monitor, I can always control what I hear and what I send to the house. For acoustic amps, I'm using Fender and Genz gear. |
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Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Hey Pete, you know you're not limited to posting in the Downunderers, you can post anywhere on the OFC. Posting questions like this one would be well appreciated by a number of members AND you'd get a lot more answers. (pretty impressed by the response you've already gotten though) I have the power to move this thread to the 'General Posts' section if you don't mind. |
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June 2007
Posts: 3084
Location: Brisbane Australia | Ooooh....the power, the power......!! 
AJ |
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August 2005
Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Can you feel it too Jim? |
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February 2010
Posts: 243
Location: Australia | Yeah Muzz feel free to move... |
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November 2008
Posts: 400
Location: Northwest Arkansas | I use a Trace Elliot TA 200 in the band situation. I've been mulling over buying a powered monitor for an acoustic amp and running an effects send through it. You're gonna use one anyway and to me the acoustic still sounds best that way. You can get a really smalll mixer for cheap. Use your vocals through the board, acoustic with a DI and mic the Twin with a SM57. It sounds great. |
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January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | I have found the Bose L1 to be both powerful and pure in tone (ours has no effects). Unfortunately the only example I have is from a noisy gig.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF2x2IGbow0
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Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | PS In the video the Bose tower is left, out of view. We use a small amp behind us as a monitor...... |
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Acoustic Amp chat..
