|
|
Joined:
August 2005
Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Doesn't that piss you off? Playing with someone who can just 'do it'?
I practice my butt off, then go to a to jam with someone who admits that they NEVER practice, and I make mistake after mistake and the bloke who never practices just sounds like gold - the music just flows from him.
Sorry, I've had a 'skin full' tonight. (a little bit tipsy....) I jad a great jam, but I'm really pissed off as I think I've just realized that I'm never going to be a 'real' musician, no matter how hard I try. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 5332
Location: Bluffton, SC | Usually those "naturals" have a lot more time in than you see (or they admit). Maybe it was when they were first learning so it's a little easier to pick things up now but time was usually spent somewhere alog the line. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | I don't think I've ever seen anyone who had "natural" ability. The closest thing I've seen is someone who grew up around music, maybe took bunches of lessons as a kid, maybe even on a different instrument, and then seemed to pick things up "naturally". It seems easier if the basics were learned at a young age.
The best "natural" musician I can think of is a concert pianist. His wife told me that he practices at least 8 hours a day at least 5 days a week.
If you like what you play, you're a "real" musician. I'm sure there are many that would envy your "natural" talent. Someone handed me a clarinet when we were in college and I played a couple of scales. He said he hated people like me, who could pick up an instrument and play it. He was struggling with lessons apparently. I told him I'd played clarinet every day for almost 10 years. I've never played it since, but I bet I could pick one up and play it right now. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 1071
Location: Carle Place, NY | Some people do have natural ability. My son has a friend, Josh, who is on a full scholarship at Berklee College of Music. Sure, Josh practices a whole lot, but he has an amazing natural ability to create music. Take a look:
Josh Young\'s Tribute to Victor Wooten
Joshua Young Bass Improv |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2008
Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | I have had students with differing amounts of natural ability. There really IS such a thing. I've had 10 year old kids who can do just about anything I show them the first time. That being said, I have also seen people with no ear at all learn to play beautifully. My ex-husband is a good example. When I met him, he was just barely able to strum some CSN songs. Then, after I had shown him everything I knew, he went out and bought books, taught himself to read music, and is now one of the best classical guitarists I've ever heard. Soon HE was teaching ME.
I would have to say the only problem that is almost impossible to overcome is issues with timing. Metronomes, tapping the foot, NOTHING seems to help these people. So I tell them they should learn to play jazz :) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2007
Posts: 2711
Location: Vernon CT | Muzza,
Enjoy what and who you are as a Musician. Do the best you can and understand , that's life!! :) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4081
Location: Utah | Originally posted by muzza:
I'm really pissed off as I think I've just realized that I'm never going to be a 'real' musician, no matter how hard I try. I really suck at singing. But, I am loads better than Bruce Springsteen or Bob Dylan. Those guys are real musicians, though, right?
I can't play guitar like James Taylor and it pisses me off. But I can still play music. My kind.
Harry Chapin wrote a song just for you, Mr. Tanner . |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2005
Posts: 161
Location: Atlanta GA | My son is 15, he has been palying the drums since he was 11. There's a kid his age in the neighborhood who has been playing guitar with him since age 11. From the first day I was this kid play the guitar I have never seen anyone who can play like him. Or remember the songs like him. Never took a lesson in his life. If you ask him if he knows nearly any song his first question is "which version"? He usually knows three different live versions and the recorded version. Not discounting Mark's comments above, he does practice a lot, but so do I and all I can do is watch in amazement. There's hardly any other explination other than natural ability to explain how he can play the guitar. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2007
Posts: 843
Location: CA | Yes, there are people with a 'natural' ability — to learn music, play the guitar, learn a language, dunk a basketball, kick a soccer ball, drive a dirt bike, etc etc etc. There are also people with that natural ability who also have an incredible drive to do more of it, and who thereby get very, very good at it. The combination of the two is called 'talent', and it's how we get Eddie Van Halen, Pele, Michael Jordan, etc. I think those who don't have natural ability can still achieve the 'talent' level, it just takes a lot more hours and persistence.
BTW, being of the latter persuasion, I hate the 'natural' players, too. I occasionally jam with a guy who is the most amazing guitar player I actually know. He's also the most amazing mandolin player I know. And a few years ago, when a banjo player started sitting in, this guy asked to 'try' the banjo. He's now the best banjo player I know, and better than the guy who had been sitting in who had been playing for about 20 years.
He also plays piano very well. In fact, he's the best musician and most hateable guy I know! Ha ha ha. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2008
Posts: 247
Location: Delaware | If you play from your heart and soul because you love it and enjoy it, people sense that and they enjoy it, therefore you ARE a "real" musician, no matter what level of ability you have ! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2005
Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Originally posted by FlySig:
Harry Chapin wrote a song just for you, Mr. Tanner . |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2007
Posts: 672
Location: New South Wales, Australia | Don't do it Muzz. Stick with the guitar.
I reckon that about once every couple of months or so, for the past 25 years, I've thought about giving up the guitar but I just can't do it. The feeling usually lasts only a couple of days and then I'm playing again.
Am I a musician?? Well, I play a couple of instruments, not too cleverly, so I guess I'm some sort of musician. The 15 year old kid down the road who just bought his first guitar thinks I'm a genius while my naturally talented mate tells me I should practice more.
It's all about perception. Keep strumming Muzz and if you make it down this way in the winter I'll demonstrate how my enthusiasm makes up for my lack of natural talent. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by CanterburyStrings:
I would have to say the only problem that is almost impossible to overcome is issues with timing. Metronomes, tapping the foot, NOTHING seems to help these people. So I tell them they should learn to play jazz :) Thanx :eek: :mad:
:cool: |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 1017
Location: Budd Lake, NJ | There were two trumpet players in our high school band, both of whom were very good. One ended up being first chair all-state, the other not quite so high. The second had more natural ability--but the first worked his tail off. Having the natural ability certainly helps, but there's something about sweat equity that can't be replaced.
Muz, I know that this probably won't help, but we're glad you're here, even if you aren't always happy with how you play. I'm certainly not always happy with how I play, but at least I know enough now to be "comfortable" with the guitarist I am. I probably won't ever be much better from a musical perspective, but...the people who love me do so for totally different reasons anyway, and I guess that's all that really matters.
--Kaz |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2005
Posts: 486
Location: North Carolina | Originally posted by Weaser P:
Usually those "naturals" have a lot more time in than you see (or they admit). Absolutely. I was the geeky kid with glasses, few friends and no girlfriends. So I had plenty of time to get good at guitar. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2008
Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Whoa, didn't mean to offend! Jazz is a good part of what I play. The slow schmaltzy stuff with lots of pauses for effect. It's cool because even when I'm learning a song, I can play it in public, because if it takes me a few seconds to remember which chord comes next, people think I meant to pause there to make it sound more "emotional". |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2005
Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | I guess I should have called the topic LACK of natural ability. My pissed-offedness (sp?) :confused: stems from my frustration at not being at the proficiency level that I feel I should have achieved after so many years and so much effort.
Some people have a natural gift, others have to put in extra effort to achieve greatness and another group, including myself, reach a bullet-proof glass ceiling half way up. I know I'm not the only one in this third group.
I hear what many of you are saying - play to your ability and enjoy it. Some people who were at the party have since commented how much they enjoyed my playing, but the one person that I most needed to impress was unmoved.
Me!
And there lies the problem. :rolleyes:
On a positive note; if I was asked to bring my guitar to a party tonight, I would do it without hesitation. So something in my subconscious enjoys being perpetually mediocre.
(and thanks Kaz :) ) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Well said, Oddball. If you really enjoy what you're really good at, you can soar. Maximizing our contentedness with the incongruence between the two is the tough part. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2006
Posts: 3969
| Originally posted by muzza:
Some people who were at the party have since commented how much they enjoyed my playing, but the one person that I most needed to impress was unmoved.
Me!
And there lies the problem. Muzza - we're often our own worst critics. Have you recorded yourself and listened later? You might - no, actually, you will - be surprised at just how good you sound. Dissatisfaction with how you play should just be an inducement to improve. Don't let it get in the way of your enjoyment, 'tho. As Matt has famously said, there's a reason it's called playing music.
I've often hit that wall. It's one reason why I pretty much gave up guitar more than 20 years ago, when I realized I would never be a shredder. When I came back to acoustic guitar a couple of years ago - came back to it more seriously, not just noodling around on it every once in a great while - I was surprised by how much I still remembered.
I've since tackled and (somewhat) mastered songs I once thought were beyond my ability. I guess being older gave me more patience and determination, plus I'm approaching it from the direction of enjoying myself. Those walls may be made of glass, but glass can be chipped away and eventually broken.. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | g8r ,
Great points and observations!
I had a 30+ year hiatus and picked up a git again last year. In the past I ALWAYS had some problems with barre chords. But this time around it just fell into place.
With the extra time I now have to learn and practice, along with all the helpful info on the web, I'm pleased, but not satisfied, with my slow progress.
Using your glass analogy; in my case it's more like going from 'opaque' to 'translucent'.  |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | There are quite a few of us who went on a guitar hiatus for years. I was surprised that I could, after awhile, get my fingers to remember some of the songs I learned in the 70s. I was also surprised at how I had learned fairly complicated songs note for note in the 70s, before tabs or computerized software came along to allow learning at a slower pace.
The brain is an amazing thing, but mostly I can't believe how much time I must have had when I was younger. Of course, there was no OFC board to spend all that time on. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2006
Posts: 3969
| iffy - the web & computers in general have been an enormous help to me. When I started seriously playing again I searched around for tabs & came across GuitarPro software.
Files written for it show tabs as well as standard notation, you can isolate individual passages or bars & slow it down to get the timing right, it'll show you the fingering positions on the fretboard, it has a "practice" feature where it repeats a highlighted phrase, each time a little faster so you can play along with it to build up speed and accuracy, etc., etc. It's worth checking out & they have a free trial version you can evaluate before deciding if you want to buy it.
The first song I learned using it was Signe by Eric Clapton (the opening number to his Unplugged CD). It took me a couple of months, but I finally learned it to my satisfaction. Beforehand I would have considered this song too advanced for me. Now I'm picking up songs just as complicated (finger picking-wise) using this software in days, rather than months. Check it out. |
|
| |
Natural ability
