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June 2009
Posts: 14
Location: Scottsdale, AZ | I lowered the action on my 1627, by removing the shim under the bridge. All is well until I reach the 13th fret then I get buzzed. The manual says there are shims "plural" and I only found one. Should I have found more than one?...and if not what else can I do to fix the problem?
Thank to all |
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Posts: 2711
Location: Vernon CT | There are usually 2 and I have found 3 at one time. You may need to tweek the Truss rod a bit (losen) 1/8 to 1/4 turn or so may do the trick. |
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Posts: 12759
Location: Boise, Idaho | I get a buzz on the high e string on the Patriot and 87 Collector. Instead of counting shims (I admit I can't keep track of all my guitars), I did an informal measurement of them at the 12th fret. My eyes aren't good enough to see thousandths of an inch, so I used coins. The only two that I couldn't slide a penny between the 12th fret and the high e string were the Patriot and 87. I'm going to put a shim back in both of those. I know the Patriot has 2 already, so I'll either replace a thin one with a thick one or add a thin one. It came with 3 and played pretty well, but I took one out and adjusted the truss rod as BT717 suggested above. It's the only guitar I have that has really low action even with 2 shims.
Back to you, somebody probably took one or two shims out of the 1627 before you got it. I always leave the extras in the case, but who knows what a prior owner may have done. |
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Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | If the shim you removed was about as thick as a credit card, go to the hardware store and check out the plastic "OPEN", "FOR SALE", etc. signs. They are thinner and you can cut a new shim that might get rid of the buzz but still keep the action lower than it was before you removed the shim. |
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Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Originally posted by BT717:
There are usually 2 and I have found 3 at one time. You may need to tweek the Truss rod a bit (losen) 1/8 to 1/4 turn or so may do the trick. Nope. Adjusting the rod will not significantly affect the action over the neck joint, and AGAIN, the neck rod should not be used to adjust the action. The action is set at the bridge and nut, the neck rod is used to control neck relief. The amount of neck relief will infulence the action to some extent, but that is not it's primary function. Also loosening the rod will increase neck relief and raise the action, not lower it.
There are 2 ways to fix the problem: The easy way is to shim the saddle back up a little. Action adjustments at the bridge work on a 2:1 ratio. For every 1mm change at the 12th fret you need 2mm at the bridge. It may be worth finding material thinner than the factory shims.
The other way is to have the frets dressed by someone who knows what they're doing, but that can be comparatively expensive |
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Posts: 14
Location: Scottsdale, AZ | I bought the guitar brand new from GC two weeks ago without a case. Could it have come from the factory with one shim? It is the thickness of a credit card. I did not want to mess with the truss rod but I will see if the helps.
Thanks to all |
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October 2007
Posts: 2711
Location: Vernon CT | Originally posted by Paul Templeman:
Originally posted by BT717:
There are usually 2 and I have found 3 at one time. You may need to tweek the Truss rod a bit (losen) 1/8 to 1/4 turn or so may do the trick. Nope. Adjusting the rod will not significantly affect the action over the neck joint, and AGAIN, the neck rod should not be used to adjust the action. The action is set at the bridge and nut, the neck rod is used to control neck relief. The amount of neck relief will infulence the action to some extent, but that is not it's primary function. Also loosening the rod will increase neck relief and raise the action, not lower it.
There are 2 ways to fix the problem: The easy way is to shim the saddle back up a little. Action adjustments at the bridge work on a 2:1 ratio. For every 1mm change at the 12th fret you need 2mm at the bridge. It may be worth finding material thinner than the factory shims.
The other way is to have the frets dressed by someone who knows what they're doing, but that can be comparatively expensive |
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February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Leave the rod alone unless you know what you're doing. The way to check if the rod needs adjusting is simple. Fret the 6th string at the 1st fret and the 14th. check the gap between the top of the 5th fret and the string. If the gap is tiny or the string is touching the fret the rod should be loosened (a little at a time, let it settle and re-check. 1/4 turns at a time) If the gap is big tighten the rod. There's no absolute "correct" setting, it depends on string guage, fret height, preferred action and how hard you play. Players who use lighter strings and don't dig in too hard can get away with less releif in the neck without getting fret buzz in the lower positions.
The number of shims depends on the geometry of the guitar when it's built. I've seen new guitars with no shims and some with as many as 4 or 5. It the neck angle that determines the number of shims to achieve a standard factory action. |
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ | I am thinking a thinner shim will do the trick. What type of material is used? I am sure it might serve a purpose. |
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ | I forgot to mention it is a 1627 re-issue. Do not want anyone to think that GC sold me a 40 year old brand new guitar :) |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | If you bought the guitar new, just contact Ovation customer service and have them send you some shims. They are great people and one of the best reasons for buying an Ovation, except maybe for the opportunity to associate with us.
Also, if you get some time, just read through Templeman's posts. Other than his occasional tirades, there is a book full of information there, some of which I am starting to understand. His English is surprisingly good. |
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Posts: 14
Location: Scottsdale, AZ | Thanks Paul for all your insight. I am using elixir lights and thought that extra light's might help. |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | tumblinDice, I'm serious. Go to the hardware store and pick up one of those plastic signs. They are about half a credit card's thickness and you can cut a shim that will work. I got one that was discontinued and on sale for 99 cents, and I make shims all the time for set-ups here at the shop.
Going to extra light strings will reduce the tone of your guitar. They might be easier on the fingers but they will sound tinny. |
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February 2009
Posts: 335
Location: Reisterstown, Maryland | I've discovered shims made of cardboard, I guess you can make them out of just about anything. :D
Anita |
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March 2008
Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Cardboard doesn't work because it is too soft, but the plastic in those signs is the same as the plastic we used as shims at the factory. Trust me. |
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October 2005
Posts: 4074
Location: Utah | Do you get buzz only on one or two frets, or is it most of the frets above the 13th? If it is only one or two, there may be a high fret that needs to be filed down (by a good luthier if you haven't done it before). If it is across all the strings and all the frets above the 13th fret, you should add a shim back in, or a thin shim as Canterbury suggested.
What I would do is Temp's suggestion on checking the neck relief. Get that adjusted first, then see if you have any buzzing up high. If so, then add the thin shim. If not, you're good to go. |
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Posts: 2491
Location: Copenhagen Denmark | 1) Neck
2) Nut
3) Saddle
.. in that order .. |
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February 2009
Posts: 335
Location: Reisterstown, Maryland | Originally posted by FlicKreno aka Solid Top:
1) Neck
2) Nut
3) Saddle
.. in that order .. Now if I could just get this old body of mine 'set up' in that order I'd be a really happy camper. :rolleyes:
Anita |
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December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by ladylaw:
Now if I could just get this old body of mine 'set up' in that order I'd be a really happy camper. 2) Nut = head? :confused: |
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December 2003
Posts: 13996
Location: Upper Left USA | If you have to explain it it looses some of it's luster. I'm with ya Anita!
Time to get my 70K Timing Belt changed out! |
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buzzed...
