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| I'll try to explain this as best as I can.
I've been working on "The Last Supper" from "Jesus Christ Superstar".
The chord progression goes like this: G,D,Em,G,C,G,Am,D,G,B/G,Em,C,D,G and repeat.
When I simply strum my guitar, the chords I don't have a problem. They're actually pretty simple chords to do.
However, when I try to fingerpick it, the left hand sometimes goes "wacky". Or the left hand is okay, but then the right hand screws up! The simple answer would be to just strum the chord, but the song doesn't sound right if it isn't fingerpicked.
The fingerpicking pattern I am using is :pinching the 1st and 6th strings, then uppicking the 2nd and third strings, then downpicking the 4th string with my thumb, then uppicking the 1st, 2nd and third strings and then downpicking the 4th string with my thumb. I hope that makes sense.
Just after I typed the 5th paragraph, I tried the song again. All went well, except for two times where my right hand had "trigger finger" and the left hand didn't quite make the Am chord correctly.
And I've tried adding singing to this mix. I can sing it, but sometimes I've noticed that when I take a deep breath, my fingers stop playing for a second or two. I don't know if that makes sense either.
The frustrating thing is I "know" I know how to do the chords, pick patterns and singing. Independently, they work fine. I practice the chords by themselves and then I practice the fingerpicking on its own. But why can't I get it together? I was so frustrated tonight that I cried a bit.
Michelle |
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Posts: 3969
| You're task-loading, trying to do too much at once. All big problems can be solved by breaking them down into smaller, more manageable tasks.
Practice with a metronome at slow speed, maybe half the tempo of the song. When you make a mistake, stop and go back to the beginning; you don't want to reinforce the mistake. Keep doing it until you can play the song through at that slow tempo without mistakes, then increase the speed by 10%. Keep repeating the above until you can play it consistently at tempo. Realize that some days you're "on" and can play it easily; if so, try playing it faster (but not with mistakes, only reinforce the positive). On those "off" days, don't get frustrated if you have to slow down the tempo a bit to be able to play it correctly.
It might take a few days, it might take a few weeks, but do that and you'll establish the muscle memory. Then, and only then, try singing along with it.
Do this enough and each new song will come easier. It used to take me weeks if not months to learn a fairly complex song. Now I can usually pick up a tune in hours. The "Two Teardrops" that Bobbo featured on SOTD took me all of 3 hours to learn all 4 guitar parts well enough to record it. |
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Location: south east Michigan | You're task-loading, trying to do too much at once. That's the type of good advise you usually have to get from the old guru on the mountain top after a long climb. |
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Posts: 715
| Originally posted by G8r:
You're task-loading, trying to do too much at once. All big problems can be solved by breaking them down into smaller, more manageable tasks.
Practice with a metronome at slow speed, maybe half the tempo of the song. When you make a mistake, stop and go back to the beginning; you don't want to reinforce the mistake. Keep doing it until you can play the song through at that slow tempo without mistakes, then increase the speed by 10%. Keep repeating the above until you can play it consistently at tempo. Realize that some days you're "on" and can play it easily; if so, try playing it faster (but not with mistakes, only reinforce the positive). On those "off" days, don't get frustrated if you have to slow down the tempo a bit to be able to play it correctly.
It might take a few days, it might take a few weeks, but do that and you'll establish the muscle memory. Then, and only then, try singing along with it.
Do this enough and each new song will come easier. It used to take me weeks if not months to learn a fairly complex song. Now I can usually pick up a tune in hours. The "Two Teardrops" that Bobbo featured on SOTD took me all of 3 hours to learn all 4 guitar parts well enough to record it. I'll have to check out "Two Teardrops"!
The funny thing is that I finally have gotten "the brain memory" for this song. It's just not making it's way down to the fingers yet all the time.
Sometimes, though, the feeling of "I've been at this guitar thing for 3 years and what do I have to show for it" really creeps in and gets to me for a while.
Thanks for all your help.
Michelle |
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Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by Guitarzannie:
Sometimes, though, the feeling of "I've been at this guitar thing for 3 years and what do I have to show for it" really creeps in and gets to me for a while. Just wait till it's 40 years. That really feels good... |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Or 50 years. |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | Annie, just keep working at it and try to not get frustrated because it is taking a while...It will come as long as you just keep working at it...and do whatever seems comfortable w/your practicing...
I can vividly remember the times I hit a wall: I remember in particular how much I wanted to fingerpick and just could not do it for what seemed like forever...but I kept at it and eventually it came...same thing with learning to play lead/barre chords/etc.
Just keep at it and don't quit! All the best... |
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| Thanks everyone!
Head knowledge vs. finger knowledge can be a frustrating thing for sure. I think that by learning this song, it has taken me up a notch.
People I know that have been playing much longer than me cannot believe I'm attempting something from "Jesus Christ Superstar". Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment :)
I guess I've just had to release my own little pressure valve. Unfortunately, I've listened to people say that if I haven't learned to play and sing in my youth that I'll never be able to do it now. I think they are full of bull.
BTW, I went to see Jackson Browne/David Lindley Tuesday night (fabulous show). Jackson had blanked out on the lyrics of one of his older songs (I wasn't familiar with the song). So I guess that even the old pros screw up sometimes!
Michelle |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Just break it down into smaller parts, practice that part, move onto the next part, contect parts 1 and 2, then move to part 3, etc
Remember Rome wasn't built in a day. |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | People I know that have been playing much longer than me cannot believe I'm attempting something from "Jesus Christ Superstar". Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment [Smile] I've been doing "Gethsemane" for many years now...it is such a powerful song: Ian Gillan definitely nailed it...
Just keep at it... |
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Location: Miami | That Gethsemane song is the sh... Oh, sorry. Guess I shouldn't put it that way. That Gethsemane is the holy sh... oh, never mind. The song is awesome!
Anyway, double what g8r said. When it's hard to synchronize playing and singing parts that are easy to do separately, I find that learning them in slow motion (even at a snail's pace) and then gradually picking it up until it's easy is the only way to get it down.
Even then, in some instances (the big names do this too) you might have to simplify the rhythm to make it happen. This is a last resort I've only had to do for a couple of parts that just refuse to play nice :-)
But it is the exception, as I'll obsessively work on these troublemakers for hours, days, and weeks. Tears? Let 'em flow, sweetie! Nothing wrong with that. Take an hour, a day, or a week off that song, then start again.
:-) |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by Guitarzannie:
BTW, I went to see Jackson Browne/David Lindley Tuesday night (fabulous show). Jackson had blanked out on the lyrics of one of his older songs (I wasn't familiar with the song). So I guess that even the old pros screw up sometimes!
Michelle That's just Old Age! I often forget what I am doing in the middle of a song. :eek:
OH! I have discovered that I cannot sing and play the guitar at the same time.
(I know that doesn't make You feel any better, but I just thought that I would share that) |
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| Originally posted by ''Jukebox Joe'' Tuñón:
That Gethsemane song is the sh... Oh, sorry. Guess I shouldn't put it that way. That Gethsemane is the holy sh... oh, never mind. The song is awesome!
Anyway, double what g8r said. When it's hard to synchronize playing and singing parts that are easy to do separately, I find that learning them in slow motion (even at a snail's pace) and then gradually picking it up until it's easy is the only way to get it down.
Even then, in some instances (the big names do this too) you might have to simplify the rhythm to make it happen. This is a last resort I've only had to do for a couple of parts that just refuse to play nice :-)
But it is the exception, as I'll obsessively work on these troublemakers for hours, days, and weeks. Tears? Let 'em flow, sweetie! Nothing wrong with that. Take an hour, a day, or a week off that song, then start again.
:-) Yep, I'm thinking about taking some time off (probably a day or two) just to re-group.
The tears might be a good thing. I could always write a ballad called "Tears on My Guitar". That would make me a Balladeer :) .
Michelle |
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|
OH! I have discovered that I cannot sing and play the guitar at the same time.
:) At least I know I'm not alone here. :)
Michelle |
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Location: Nahant, MA | I think athletes call it muscle memory. I'm trying to get back to this after 30 or so years off...and finding that from time to time one hand or the other just goes off on its own. I'm glad I'm not alone too ;-) |
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| My story....I like to reduce songs to the least chords possible.Then I beat the thing to death over and over for a couple of nights.Get comfortable with the song,the rest will follow over time.
If you really want to learn to fingerpick,and your over 30,take lessons.I paid a guy when I was 45 to teach me classical guitar once a week for a year.Be humble.He called me a sloppy street guitar player.Practice the little kid books he gives you,so when you show up for the lesson,you nail the homework he gave you. |
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Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by rigger173:
Be humble. He called me a sloppy street guitar player. Ya should hear what the sloppy street guitar players call me... and I don't even pay fer it! :D |
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| Originally posted by rigger173:
My story....I like to reduce songs to the least chords possible.Then I beat the thing to death over and over for a couple of nights.Get comfortable with the song,the rest will follow over time.
If you really want to learn to fingerpick,and your over 30,take lessons.I paid a guy when I was 45 to teach me classical guitar once a week for a year.Be humble.He called me a sloppy street guitar player.Practice the little kid books he gives you,so when you show up for the lesson,you nail the homework he gave you. Hi Rigger! I've been taking lessons for three years now, but I'm just picking up fingerpicking.
Good advice, though.
Michelle |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Listen to G8r. I think we were at about the same spot a few years ago. I'm about 2 songs past that spot and he's years ahead. Sometimes it helps me to work in the vocals before I get all the fingerpicking down. It might be a timing thing.
Lessons might also help, but practice is key. If you hit a roadblock, go back and play something you know and pick it up later. There's no sense in using a whole bucket of balls practicing your bad shots. (golf analogy) |
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| Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
Listen to G8r. I think we were at about the same spot a few years ago. I'm about 2 songs past that spot and he's years ahead. Sometimes it helps me to work in the vocals before I get all the fingerpicking down. It might be a timing thing.
Lessons might also help, but practice is key. If you hit a roadblock, go back and play something you know and pick it up later. There's no sense in using a whole bucket of balls practicing your bad shots. (golf analogy) Thanks! I've been going back to "Father and Son" by Cat Stevens a few times. Easier for vocal rhythm, but it still has those dreaded barre chords (but I'm gettting better at those).
Michelle |
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Posts: 715
| One thing that does worry me though, about going back to songs that I know is that I won't perfect anything. I keep going back to songs that I've been working on, but never seem to "perfect".
Michelle |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | The Patriot is the easiest guitar for playing barre chords. It will spoil you. It took me 30 years to go from start to finish on some songs and I still don't have any that are "perfect", some barely "good". As G8r said, if you keep working on some songs, others just come easier eventually. I just stumbled into some that I couldn't figure out years ago. I still haven't gotten anywhere with "Castles In the Air", though. |
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I'm really frustrated
