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October 2007
Posts: 2711
Location: Vernon CT | I was watching a PBS special with "Steely Dan" last night and was thinking about how preformers remember all the words and parts to their MANY songs. Even when I'm at a local bar and a Band is playing they have everything Memomized.
There are a few songs I can sing at "Jams" that I know by heart ,BUT, most of time, I need the sheet to glance at. Whats the unwritten rule preforming in front of "People" with Stage sheets? Is it ok? Obviously, the more you practice the more you memorize. Just curious how you "Prefoming Ovation members" handle this. |
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November 2005
Posts: 1126
Location: Omaha, NE | IMHO, it breaks down like this:
When you are playing to "entertain", you can't be reading off a sheet at the same time. You need to be looking at the audience.
But I also play in church, and there I have no problem reading off the stand. In fact, we've been playing the same songs for 20 years and I still use the music. Weird how the mind works.
For playing clubs, a typical night might be 45 to 50 songs. I don't know what the key to memorization is, but repetition and practicing without fake sheets is helpful for me. At the same time, I'll forget words once in a while. Its no big deal. Just steal a line from the next verse. No one will notice. |
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Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Many people here have their book with them when they perform. Certainly on the Wed night singer/songwriter we mostly all have sheets, since the songs all are pretty new.
Davis playing at O'Kanes always has his book, not so much for the words but more for the drum machine settings.
I remember seeing ELP years ago and was suprised to see a TV monitor built into the stage so Greg Lake could read all the words. Last year we saw Lucinda Williams and she had a book, right next to the mic. |
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March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Sadly, I just don't have the TIME to "practice", so I often have to rely on the "crutch" that IS my FakeBook. I've got like a 300 song repertoire that I'm constantly "cycling" thru depending upon the venue/crowd/season, etc. and my aged brain just can't remember like it used to (more the odd chord change than a lyric).
I generally will bring a new song INTO th'Book, and after playing it awhile & memorizing it, it gets phased-out (tho, sometimes not).
That USED to require the need of a 5" 3-ring on a stand. NOW I'm using this (with great success) :
Thanks AGAIN, Al!!!
I've been noticing more & more the use of flat-screen "teleprompters" near the face-back monitors on concert stages. |
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May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | 50 songs a night! You are one hardworking man.
Forgetting lyrics and chord changes is normal, though. If I forget a chord change, what I'll try to do is make the mistake again next time so, in case anyone is noticing, they'll think i meant it. Though doing that kinda makes me sweat. |
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September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | I've seen Townshend use a book. And I've seen him start a song and forget the first line.
My cheat sheets are both a blessing and a curse. I don't play out enough to be 100% comfortable with my memory but if you are playing for people ya can't have your head down in a book.
So if I can't play it with my head up I have no business playing it for a crowd. But if it's a tune I struggle with, it's nice to have the book handy just to give it quick glance before starting.
My goal is to be book free. That will take, like Darby says, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!!!
Speaking of another type of crutch, I found out a Amelia how much I depend on my partner. After spending hours on a tune as a duo, it just don't feel or sound right playing it solo. |
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November 2005
Posts: 1126
Location: Omaha, NE | Originally posted by an4340:
Forgetting lyrics and chord changes is normal, though. Indeed.
We played at a "battle of the bands" yesterday. We only had a half hour set, so it went pretty quick. I totally blanked on the changes through the chorus on one of our songs, so I just faked it. Weird how the mind works. We've played that song a million times. Sometimes your brain just says "eat this, fucker!"
Anyway, the set went well. Made some friends. Didn't stick around till the end to see if we won, but I doubt it. We were twice the age of most of the acts there!
ps: I should also mention...my goal is never to play the song "correctly". I just want to make it sound like I meant to play it the way I played it. If we take some license here and there, that's fine. |
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May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Many times larger groups will have video monitors at their feet with lyrics and setlists.
I also saw this at a broadway show last week (Mary Poppins, which btw is excellent no matter what your age, seriously one of the best musicals I have ever seen). The monitors were extreme wide screen (like 24 x 100 inches) and built right into the facade of the 1st level balcony. Also a video monitor of the orchestra conductor who is buried under the stage and out of line-of-sight from the performers. Pretty cool set up.
Dave *RIP 282* |
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December 2001
Posts: 7233
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I've had issues with "phrases" in the past. Don't know what it is.. but it would come out in rehearsals thankfully so I could deal with it. I would almost always as example forget the first line of a song, or the the first line of a verse somewhere. The same one, all the time. Come back from a lead break... forget the next line...
Anyway, on the song list, I put the "problems phrases" or the first couple of words in parenthesis so it looked like a subtitle to a song. |
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March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Being that the back-lit screen on the FreeHand is so "read-able", I position it fairly low and off to my left just so I can glance at it & catch my "bearing" as I look at my fretting hand (as opposed t'having a head down in a book in front of you).
I generally play 2 two-hour sets.
When I'm playing alone, it doesn't give me the luxury of "stretching" the tunes with somebody else playing a guitar(or piano) solo. That equates to aLOT of tunes over the course of the night.
I'm about a 50/50 mix of tunes on/off book.
Generally, it's the potential "requests" that go into the tablet, as they're usually tunes that I'm not "crazy" about & never went thru the extra effort to commit 'em all to memory . . . |
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December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | memorize the first verse and chorus and sing them as many times as necessary.
no one seems to notice |
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December 2006
Posts: 6995
Location: Jet City | Originally posted by alpep:
memorize the first verse and chorus and sing them as many times as necessary.
no one seems to notice I think that's how the Police write all their music!
After reading this and seeing Cliff's backlit pad there, it reminds me that I have some teleprompter software for the Mac that will work with a teleprompter OR just on the screen of my Mac.
Hmmm... I may have to see if this would work for me |
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December 2006
Posts: 6995
Location: Jet City | oops, I did this one in doubly |
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March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | ". . memorize the first verse and chorus and sing them as many times as necessary . ."
So THAT'S why your version of "Knockin' On Heaven's Door" seems t'go ON Forever . . . . |
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September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | "A do-do-do and a da-da-da is all I want to say to you"
Someone needs to write more verses to "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
I cannot seem to remember (and keep in order) all the verses to "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald"... or "Hurricane" (Carter) by Mr. Zimmerman. |
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September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | I cannot seem to remember (and keep in order) all the verses to "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald"... A ponderous, monotonous song. It's difficult to pay attenion while playing it. Ya start it and by the time to you get to the middle a dense, misty fog settles in. You start wondering where you're at. Kinda like Wild Horses... only worse.
I bet it's a good time killer for you giggers out there. |
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March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | That one, "AmericanPie" and "TheWeight".
GREAT for "coasting" or "killing time".
However, if they get TOO ponderous (and y'can see it in the crowd), y'can skip a verse(or two) and go right to the last one (and nobody'll notice). |
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January 2004
Posts: 1225
Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Originally posted by cliff:
That one, "AmericanPie" and "TheWeight".
GREAT for "coasting" or "killing time".
However, if they get TOO ponderous (and y'can see it in the crowd), y'can skip a verse(or two) and go right to the last one (and nobody'll notice). Not to mention "Tangled Up In Blue", or any "Dead" tune...... |
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November 2004
Posts: 4413
| Just lay the "Dead" insults on the floor and step back. Nobody needs to get hurt here. |
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November 2004
Posts: 4413
| And as we all know, the late Jerry Garcia is one of our most regular posters. |
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December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | Originally posted by cliff:
". . memorize the first verse and chorus and sing them as many times as necessary . ."
So THAT'S why your version of "Knockin' On Heaven's Door" seems t'go ON Forever . . . . thanks Pal
everytime I try NOT to do that tune, it gets thrust upon me... at the jams it seems like the only tune a couple of the guys know that want to come up and play that are too shy to play something themselves. and of course old frog throat gets stuck with vocals since no one else wants to sing....
but whatever..... |
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Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 623
Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | I tend to not play with a 'book', but sometimes, for new songs I have cheat sheets that I'll just lay on the floor (it's my high tech tele prompter). My eyes aren't that good, so I use a big, bold font. It'll have the basic chords, or just the first few words of each line in case I blank mid song. Usually, after I play it live once, I'm fine. The nerves are gone.
I try my best to 'own' a song before I perform it, which is sometimes hard to do, especially if we learned 5-10 new songs for a gig. There are SO many distractions that happen when playing live (i.e. p.a./monitor problems, guitar issues, chords, lyrics, hot chicks dancing, fights, drunks, not so hot chicks dancing pretty dangerously hot, people leaving mid-song, and triggering that never ending chatter from the critic in my head, my girlfriend being hit on, my girlfriend hitting on someone...) that I need to know a song on auto pilot just to hold it somewhat together. If I "try" to remember the next chord or lyric while I'm singing, and it's a blank, I'll just panic and totally mess up. That's ALWAYS when I make a mistake, when I'm trying to remember and thinking too much. I REALLY need to know it well enough to just let go, hoping that the muscles in my hands and my subconscious will just pull it together at the last second...and usually they do, even when i had absolutely no clue what the next chord was. If they don't, the moment is gone faster than it came and we're onto the next part of the song, and everyone forgot the mistake anyway. I just want to know the song well enough that I don't have to think about playing, I can just be in the moment, feel the vibe, and have fun.
When I say 'own' a song...God knows I don't mean play it perfect note for note...that's a rarity, if ever...and I don't even try. I do my own version of just about everything I play. But, by owning it, I mean that there's a merging with the song, a certain comfort level that I reach, where I don't have to think anymore. The song becomes a natural extension of myself. It takes some practice, but it's usually those train wreck moments during rehearsals that help me remember a lyric or guitar part in the future.
It's truly amazing how many 'off' nights...and I mean DREADFUL ones-with tons of mistakes, horrible mixes, the complete nightmare package...those gigs that take YEARS to be over...and people will come up and be like "that was the best night you've ever had!" Other nights I felt like we kicked ass and nobody seemed to care. Ya just never can tell. It's a hard lesson to just not sweat it...I'm not there yet, but working on it. I don't want to stop caring about how a gig went, but I don't want it to affect my mood afterward.
We typically play about 50 songs a night too. I figure about 12 songs an hour, give or take, for 4 hours, and usually that's about right. I'd rather be over prepared than have the crowd cheering for more and we're out of good songs. |
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O.T : Preforming with Stag sheets
