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Location: NJ | A long time ago, I used to see this Ovation "accessory" which was a large, black plastic "plug" w/raised Ovation logo that went into the sound hole in an attempt to minimize "feedback".
Has anybody ever used one of these and do they work?
Recently, I've been experiencing some feedback problems where certain strings sound like Harrison and Shankar playing "Duelling Sitars".
This doesn't happen when I'm playing alone or with the other guitarist, but only during certain instances with the bass player. I think a major part of this is due to the fact that the bass player is too f@%$*#*g loud (fortunately my "child rearing" days are over, as I'm sure he's "sterilized" me by now!). I usually make numerous attempts to "rein him in", but inevitably the only way I'll stop him is to glyptol his damn volume knob into position! I've made volume/eq adjustments on my end, but then my guitar ends up sounding like crapolito. I'm thinking that maybe this "plug" might be simple, inexpensive "aid".
Signed,
"Hhhhhmmmmmmmmbrrrrrrraaaaaaannnnnnnnnggggggggggg" |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | It was called a back buster. Not sure they are still around. Call KMC, 860-509-8888 and ask marketing. |
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Location: Scotland | Cliff, they're still listed as an accessory on the Ovation website, in a single centre-hole type, or a bunch of various sized plugs for the Adamas & Elites. They work up to a point, basically they raise the resonant frequency of the soundbox. It'll still feedback, just at a slightly higher frequency, which may or may not be easier to control. They can make life easier if you have stage monitors but if they're your only line of defence, forget it. Theres no substitute for decent EQ, preferably parametric.
Paul |
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Location: NJ | Thanks, Bill; I called CT and they told me to check a local shop and if by chance they don't have 'em, they can order 'em.
Stopped at a small music store on my way home, and BAM!, there they were hanging from a peghook!!
Will try it at the next "band" gig next weekend.
Thanks too, Paul for the insight.
Yeah, I've got parametric eq on my effects pedal (A.R.T. "Acoustic") but embarrassingly enough, I've never really utilized it to it's full potential. I pretty much use the pedal for it's chorus, "detuned" chorus, and some other little effects (actually, it's got a couple nice "delay" presets that work REALLY well with my flute, but switching cables, settings and such "mid-gig" is a pain! - perhaps I should just get another one).
I should really experiment and familiarize myself more with the parametric and rely less on the graphic(s) on the guitar and on my PA.
The other problem (as always) is TIME.
Most of the places we play are small and don't really have a designated "stage" area. So we usually have to wait for tables (sometimes pool tables) to be cleared/moved, etc. Then we usually have 35-45 mins. to set up four guys, the PA, TOO BIG of a drum set, etc. Being the lead singer and not the primary guitarist, my acoustics are viewed as "accompanying instruments" and are usually the last thing to get set/adjusted. By that time, there's NO time for me to spend on learning the fine art of parametric eq.
Perhaps I need to start copping the preverbial "attitude" that lead singers are so famous for (but I don't seem to have) and start looking out for "numero uno".
Has anyone used (or tried) the new Yamaha "A.G. Stomp"? Or, does anyone have any input (good/bad) on any pedal(s) that they use with
their Ovations? |
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Location: Scotland | Cliff, some gear to check out:- LR Baggs Para acoustic DI, Fishman dual parametric, Carl Martin dual parametric, Boss AD5, Boss AD3. The TC Electronics dual parametric is superb, if you can find one, they go for silly money in the US. The Yamaha looks great, but that multi-effects stuff gives me nightmares for live use. I want to be able to sort a problem by turning a knob, not by hunting through patch, bank, menus....aaaargh!!!
Parametric EQ is easy to use. Get your guitar as loud as it will go without feedback. Turn the gain on the parametric to almost maximum. Slowly sweep through the frequencies, when it goes crazy cut the gain till it stops. You have now nailed one potential bug. There's usually 2, the body resonance & the soundboard resonance. Then there's the monitors & the room.....
Note that parametric eq's have 3 parameters - hence the name. The controls are gain, frequency & bandwidth (the octave range of the frequecy -known as the "Q") It's the "Q" control that makes parametrics great for zapping feedback. A steep cut with a very narrow bandwidth will kill the squeal without screwing-up your tone too much. Any sweep EQ without a variable Q is not a true parametic.
The Baggs para-acoustic DI has it's feedback control calbrated in notes (A, D, G etc. ) which is very cool & makes it a breeze to use. This also illustrates why it's worth learning the frequencies of notes on the guitar, makes using graphics & parametrics with acoustic guitars easy.
Alternatively buy a Behringer Shark & it'll do it for you,
Paul
[ April 25, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: NJ | Thanx, Paul!!
That sheds a little light on a somewhat murky (for me) subject.
My A.R.T. pedal has "Q", "Frequency", and "Boost/Cut" controls; now it seems to make a little more sense. It did come with some ambiguous documentation which is now "M.I.A." in the advent of divorce/moving, etc.
I'll have to set up the PA in my apartment living room (when the couple w/the infant upstairs are "out") pop open a Boddington's (or six), and spend an evening of "twisting & listening" (and maintaining a clear, unobstructed path to the "lavvie-loo").
Cheers! |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | cliff i have the exact same problem with our base player when i am playing my 1982-8 (deep), but not with artist or ss bowls. sitar is a good description with sustain any solid body would love to have IF it was actually what they were trying to accomplish. i'll be interested in how it works for you. i sit right next to the base player which probably doesn't help either. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Russ,
Give the bass player a brownie with a worm in it. |
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Location: NJ | what the heck are your bass players using svt's?????? |
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Location: NJ | Mine is using a Gallien-Krueger rig with TWO cabinets (each with two 15"-ers - I think).
THEN!........the m*th%r f%*&@r has the BALLS to play with EARPLUGS!!!!
He usually stands behind me and to my right (near my bass bout), I think we need to switch things around a little. |
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Location: Scotland | Check this out. If you want serious feedback control this is it - The best parametic EQ ever IMO. These are ridiculously expensive new. Fantastic live or studio tool. Switchable to 110V.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=863518 884&r=0&t=0&showTutorial=0&ed=1020365279&indexURL=0&rd=1
Paul
[ April 26, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | bill, he's the guy who gave me the recipe. lol. |
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Location: NJ | well if it is like all the gk amps I have ever owned it will blow up soon |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | last night the drums were causing amazing feedback problems for a guy with a big bodied martin (i don't know the models at all.) this guy could really pick (charlie prides lead player for years) and had to turn way down. he was sitting in front of the big tom and the pulse must have been hitting the exposed part of the back. i'm not all that sharp on the technical reasons for feedback and the best ways to control it. is there an after the jack magic box out there for this? |
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Location: Scotland | Russ, yes it's called a 4-band parametric EQ. The other school of thought is that it's not reasonable to expect an acoustic guitar, especially one like a Martin that is primarily an acoustic & not an electro-acoustic to be able to get to rhythm section volumes without problems. I play fingerstyle guitar over a loud rhythm section in my band. If I used picks I'd probably gain 6-10dB before feedback but I don't play that way. The only guitars that work are my Ovations. The soundholes are blocked with Ovation airlocks and feedbackbusters & they go through about a grand's worth of processing before it hits the front of house system. My Country Artist is stuffed full of Foam. I have a killer sound but it's taken years of experimentation & loads of dough. I borrowed a Viper (new version) for a gig a couple of nights ago. Fantastic sound with minimal EQ. Eliminate the air cavity & top resonance & your ears will bleed before a guitar feeds back, BUT, it's no longer an acoustic guitar. I gotta get me a few Vipers!!!!!!!!
Paul
[ April 28, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: Scotland | Al, I've owned a GK200MV acoustic amp for nearly 15 years, it's done several hundred gigs. It's the single most reliable piece of kit I have, It's never even blown a fuse. I'd be lost without it, I've been looking for a spare for years with no luck.
Paul |
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Location: NJ | Paul
so you got the good one. i have owned no less than 8 GK amps ALL of them blew up at some point. I gave up. In fact one of their former techs now works for another company and he also told me about their reliability issues.
I guess it is like anything else if you get a good one they work forever if not they are horrible. |
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Location: NJ | Maybe it's just me (it usually is), but I long for old days of "progressive" rock when all the bass players were using Rickenbacker Stereos with RotoSound round wounds and a bright, intricate bass line.
Nowadays, it just seems to be more of an experiment in "seismic activity".
Hey, Paul; has Jon Camp (of Renaissance) ever resurfaced anywhere? |
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Location: Scotland | Cliff, the band are still gigging as for as i'm aware & are quite popular in Europe, I heard a vague rumour of a new album. Their website might have some info on Jon Camp
Paul |
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Location: NJ | hmmmm....interesting!
I wonder what "incarnation" of the band this is.
Annie Haslam now lives over here (just outside of Philly), and for a while toured with "Annie Haslam's Renaissance", While Michael Dunford was touting "Michael Dunford's Renaissance" over there in the UK.
...and I thought "Pink Floyd" was confusing! |
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Location: NJ | cliff
I am/was a big renaissance fan. I saw them a number of times in the late seventies early 80;s. One of the best times was when they performed at the academy of music in philadelphia.
another cool time was at rutgers univ. in camden my alma mater.
remember when annie was married to roy wood of move and wizzard fan? now that is a strange pair.
I know she is living some where outside of philly and last christmas gave a christmas concert that was very popular. I always loved her voice.
next thing you are going to tel me is that you also like steve hillage and david allen;s gong.... |
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Location: NJ | Al;
Steve Hillage I'm SOMEWHAT famailiar with (couldn't be considered a "fan"), not familiar with David Allen/Gong.
Big "Strawbs" fan though, (especially the "Ghosts" album).
I was just at the Philly Academy of Music last Tues. night (for the first time) to see Jethro Tull. What a NICE venue!!! I was REALLY impressed with THAT place (especially the bar in the lobby)!
The "warm up" was a young guy from Wisconsin named Willie Porter. I had mentioned this guy before in a previous post, and he is WELL WORTH checking out (willieporter.com)!
He's a singer/guitarist and his guitar style is like a cross between Michael Hedges and Gordon Giltrap. Good stuff! |
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Location: NJ | Epilogue:
The "Feedback Buster" rubber plate/plug made it's "full-blown band" live debut this weekend, and was a resounding SUCCESS (along with some parametric EQ experimentation) !!!
I kicked my pedal into the "boost" setting that I use just for finger picking and stood in front of my bass player's cabinet while he was playing without even touching/damping my strings......"Ding, Dong, the Feedback's Gone"!!!
Now they gotta rein ME in!!...ha, ha haaa!!!
Big THANKS! to all those who offered their insight! |
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Sound Hole "Plug"
