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Location: Houston, TX | Hey Paul, here's the yin for the yang.
http://www.ovationfanclub.com/gallery/Preacher2.JPG |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Now that's a guitar I can get behind. I love the Vipers, and their pickups. The Preacher has a great feel... but those stock pickups... yuch. I used my preachers only for certain tunes that need that kinda "cheesy" pickup sound. Now a Preacher with Viper pickups... that's a guitar. |
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Location: Houston, TX | You should hear it. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Scott
What do the control knobs do, are the electronics Preacher with only the pickups changed? The pickups look like they fit the pick gaurd, was there modifications there that you can tell? Very interesting, was it a factory mod? I think I want one, but I want many others I have seen so I'll content myself with looking.
Bailey |
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Location: Scotland | Very cool guitar Scott, is this the one CWK2 mentioned a while ago?
In the next few days I will have my 3-pickup Breadwinner completed. Original mini-humbucker at the neck, & a pair of Viper pickups bridge & middle with a simple switching system to give just about any combination of pickups. I'll post a pic when it's done. |
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Location: SoCal | Ha! That is the other side of my Viper Deluxe!
Bailey, the pickups are interchangable. When Ovation built their electric solid bodies, they built their single and ouble coil pickups the exact same size. Open the guitar, unsolder three wires and the pickups come out (hey, with some help from Paul T., I'm an expert now).
The problem Ovation ran into was the same problem Apple computers ran in to. You could mix and match with outside parts. They were a different size, and to go to Gibson type p/u's, the body and pick guard had to be cut open. A true pain.
As for me, I prefer a more mellow jazz type sound, so the humbuckers work well for me. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | moodypi
Sounds like your Deluxe is working OK, also sounds like you profited from the exercise, it's great when an idea works isn't it?
Paul T
Looking forward to the pics of your modified Breadwinner, I'm enjoying seeing all these solid bodies I can't afford, I think I'll buy a lottery ticket and buy you all out, anybody have a surefire winning number?
Bailey |
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Location: Scotland | This is another result of the pickup trades between myself and Paul M.
http://www.ovationfanclub.com/gallery/viperwinner.JPG
I've taken out the pre, so the guitar is passive.
The original B/W mini-humbucker is at the neck with Paul M's Viper pickups bridge & middle. The switching works like this: the lower 3-way toggle selects bridge, neck or both. The upper 3-way is centre-off and adds the middle pickup, either in or out-of-phase, to any position of the other switch. There is a push-pull swith on the volume pot which kills the neck & bridge pickups leaving just the middle pickup on. A second push-pull on the tone pot switches all connections between series & parralel. THe guitar is set up with heavy strings & a high action for slide. It produces a lot of very useable sounds.
The bridge is a from one of my Vipers. The Viper now has the B/W bridge so I can install my spare Hipshot B-Bender on it.
I've been trawling guitar shows for years
looking for parts to do something like this, and this board has done it in a matter of months. I'd like to say a big thanks to Paul M for his help with this.
Paul
[ October 10, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: SoCal | Let me get this straight. Paul T., you help me build the guitar that I've wanted to build for the last 25 years, and you're thanking me???? You're welcome. But the thanks go to you for being willing to make the trade, and then helping and encouraging me on how to pull out the old and put in the new. Thank you.
This really is a great board. With only very few exceptions (and no, I don't count Weird Al as one of those exceptions), everybody here is knowledgeable, courteous, and great fun to post with.
Thanks to everybody. And Al and Miles, see you in January in Anaheim. Miles, we need to begin preliminary talks about a certain "extra" blonde that you own. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Beautiful solid body guitars guys, somewhere in here is the prototype for that reissue we were waiting for. But the factory sets on its hands while you guys build the next generation of solid body electrics out of 25 year old parts. I'm still looking for that winning lottery number to buy you out, and this applies to that great double neck from Samova.
Bailey :cool: |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I hear that the most popular request for a re-issue is Breadwinner style. Personally I don't understand why for a couple of reasons. I IS a cool guitar, but you can buy a near mint ORIGINAL for at the least half of what a new one would cost... but it doesn't stop there. I feel they would have to either re-design the old pre-amp, or just re-build it to sound like the old one. Also, the early pickups were a key too. WIthout the ORIGINAL electronics (i.e. not the preacher style thumbsuckers) it's just a funny shaped guitar.
Now... as I've posted before, an all NEW completely NEW Breadwinner, with ALL NEW electronics and technology (same shape), additional bridge under bridge picktup, would be interesting, but would anyone buy it?
If I was "king for a day" I would do TWO solids... First I would design the new electronics system and put it into a Breadwinner AND a GP-1. Make them both in two models, NEW electronics and "standard" electronics (two price points, interchangeable STANDARD SIZE parts). This way, there is something for a wider range of audience.
- People who want a GP1 style, like the original.
- People who want a GP1 with Ovation technology inside.
- People who want a Breadwinner "looking" guitar, it won't sound the same, but it will look the same, and that is the reason unfortunatly most people want one.
- People who want a Breadwinner "looking" guitar with NEW technology.
Basically, they would be making TWO guitars and one set of electroincs (use DImarzio or something for the non-tech version). But be able to sell FOUR configurations. This would also appeal to the Ovation acoustic player that just wants a solid-body and the Electric player that likes the style of a Breadwinner.
To recover cost of production, this is the only option I can think of. The least amount of production, for the largest range of audience and most importantly... they would have to get on top of folks who currently play these instruments (the originals). Not has-beens, or club artists no one has heard of. |
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Location: Scotland | Of all the Ovation solidbodies it's the Breadwinner that everyone seems to remember. Maybe it's the shape, maybe the name (Look how many Deacons get listed on Ebay as Breadwinners)either way it's a guitar that makes a statement. Anyone who plays one comments on how comfortable & well balanced they are to hold. The fact that Steve Klein has ripped-off the design & Adrian Legg has had Ovation/Hamer build him a solidbody acoustic based on the Breadwinner/Deacon shape suggests that it may still have a chance in the marketplace. I don't think a USA-built reissue would be cost-effective, not when original examples go for less than $500, but a good offshore-produced version might be viable. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I gots to agree with ya Paul. I do wonder if the Breadwinner is the only one they remember, or the only one they knew about. The Breadwinner was played by artists that were recognized at the time. The other "remembered" Ovation solid is the Magnum bass. John Entwistle was one of the players. Maybe if a Preacher or Viper or GP was in the hands (and advertised) as the Breadwinner was, people would remember them too. I was playing Ovation solidbodies for nearly 15 years before I knew there was something besides the Viper (which I bought in '78)the Breadwinner and a Magnum. And it was closer to 20 years before I knew there was a difference between a Breadwinner and a Deacon. In fact it wasn't until after I started collecting that I realized how many different Ovation solidbodies there were (and lets not forget the Storm series).
My loose point is.. I seemed to have grown up with genetically encoded information about many Fender guitars (acoustic and electric) and amps, Gibson (same), Gretch, Guild, Hofner, Tiesco, Ric'nbasher, some of these much smaller companies than Ovation. But, as an active player for many years.. never saw Ovation solids in most stores, or in magazines I read. Only the Acoustics. I'm not sure why, as I usually owned only one guitar at a time, and it was just whatever I could get my hands on. I know I am not alone as I get emails all the time about my collection "I didn't know Ovation made something like that..." etc...
I just find it odd, and I realize it this post drifts off-topic a little. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | I like my Viper and think of it as a quality solid body electric with a simple and effective design. That said, the Breadwinner body shape, to me has always had a visual impact that was way ahead of it's time. When it came out, country players were put off by it's appearance and I think Gibson upstaged it with the explorers etc. that became the outlandish rock statement. To me the Breadwinner is the ultimate AXE, but I'm somewhat scotch irish in heritage, so the Viking tradition appeals and the Breadwinner to me looks like that Viking axe that was feared by all at one time in history.
Anyway, to me, it would be the logical reissue with modern electronics somewhat in the dirty strat type of sound rather than a clean jazzy sound.
I see it as a new guitar with a classical shape, not a vintage Breadwinner that, as has been pointed out, can be bought at very low prices. I would like to see something my grandson would buy for it's statement rather than a collectors guitar.
Bailey
PS: I wanted one when I bought my Viper but music store owner Bill, the conservative ex Marine, convinced me it was too controversial for a country picker. (he didn't have one in stock)
[ October 12, 2002: Message edited by: Bailey ]
[ October 12, 2002: Message edited by: Bailey ] |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Bailey,
I've posted this before, but it was awhile ago... A new breadwinner... same shape but maybe designed a'la UKII with an aluminum core. New active electronics with a variety of tone switching (pre-amps, phase switching, parallel serial, eq, etc...) Also include a bridge pickup (a'la fishman style but better) to do that "acoutstic" sound. The output jack should also recognize if a standard plug is in, or a TRS. If TRS is used it should switch the impedence to line as DI out. All of these innovations are currently in use by OTHER guitars out there, and yet the funny thing is... Ovation pioneered most of them 20 years ago. Think of some of the technology behind folks like Parker, BC Rich, and Carvin guitars. Ovation did it first. On-board pre-amps, active tone controls or full eq, non-magnetic pickups, Composite body with aluminum core, under-bridge pickups. Unless my information is wrong... all of these things Ovation was either the first, or one of the first, and lets not forget the body style that had been copied often. |
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Location: Scotland | Bailey, The point about guitars with wacky shapes like Gibson's Flying V or Explorer, or BC Rich or whatever, is that they make a visual statement, but the body shapes are unweildy & impractical. Try sitting down with a Flying V. The Breadwinner/Deacon has an "interesting" shape, but that's only half of it. The whole point of the shape is the balance & ergonomics. These are the most comfortable solids ever made, they fit your body & balance perfectly either sitting or on a strap.
Miles, I wasn't aware that Entwhistle used a Magnum. The only people I remember seeing using Magnums were Doc Watson's bass player, T. Michael Coleman & PIL's Jah Wobble, who still uses his.
Paul
[ October 12, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: NJ | Paul
the magnum bass is the staple of many reggae bands. In fact so is the deacon/breadwinner.
did you ever play a Klein? I was shocked at how well that guitar is balanced and feels. they are in denial though. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Ross Valerie with Journey played a magnum too. About the same time that Neil was playing the UK2 |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Miles
I confess that your post was in mind when I made my suggestions and I should have mentioned it, and as Paul T says, the B/W body is still practical guitar and not cartoon figure shapes like the G's I mentioned. Maybe the all new guitar could be called something like a "Viking Axe" to give it a more aggressive position, I can visualize good graphics on that theme, that great shape will sell with or without a vintage reference other than being an Ovation which as mentioned, pioneered all those features. The reason I say that is I think the younger players are looking for something different and have little knowledge of vintage instruments.
I want a Breadwinner because I know about them from 25 years ago, if I was 17 years old and saw the guitar we've been discussing, I would want it like I did the B/W when I first saw it and it didn't have any vintage history, just a strangely interesting axe that I hadn't seen anything like before.
Bailey |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Good point, I hadn't really thought of... don't even reference it as a Breadwinner... I like that. It's just an ALL NEW solid-body guitar from Ovation, using all of the technology lessons learned in the last 25 or so years. Nice idea Bailey. I think that is what they are doing with the "Q" so it's not that out-of-character. The "Q" isn't being billed as "Adamas III", it's a NEW guitar. |
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Imagine this...
