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August 2002
Posts: 623
Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Hey gang...
I went to see one of my favorite local performers, Robert Matarazzo, play again last night. He's a solo acoustic singer/songwriter and incredibly unique. Not an ovation player though.
Anyway, he's been using a boss rc-20 loop station pedal as a regular part of his show, and it sounds fantastic! The loop station creates up to 10 "tracks" of loops on the fly (up to 5 minutes, 30 seconds recording time!). He does some really amazing things with it, including creating a "drum" loop by banging on various part of his acoustic, then layering rhythm guitar parts, lead parts, vocal loops and vocal harmonies. It sounds really full for one guy with a guitar! He does this tastefully, and it enhances his songs well.
Thought some of you other solo performers might be interested in checking it out. The possibilities for creative expression are incredible with technology today! I'm looking to buy one of these pedals myself, if anyone has one they are looking to get rid of. They sell for $260-$300 new.
Have a great day!
Johnny |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Yeah John, I've seen Robert around a few times as well (usually at The Laughing Lion in Dover or Krogh's in Sparta). He's definitely a unique individual and DOES some pretty cool things with loops. Perhaps I'm just a decrepit, old "purist", but I tend to shy away from those things. To me, they almost smell of "drum machines". |
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August 2002
Posts: 623
Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Cliff,
I can see where you're coming from regarding the whole "drum machine" thing. They do tend to sound pretty stiff.
I think the looping of acoustic "percussion" and guitar doesn't sound nearly as bad, because it still has human error and feel...even if it does precisely repeat those measures over and over. But it's nice (in theory) to be freed up from constantly carrying the beat and explore other guitar textures/ideas as a solo artist.
The thing that turns me off is it's just one more freakin' thing to be thinking about at a gig! More equipment, for me, means more headaches! It's enough to remember words, chords, harmonies, timing, the drunks in the crowd, etc, without dealing with added equipment. Robert obviously has worked A LOT with this unit to use it so seemlessly.
Later, bro,
Johnny |
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Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Johnny and Cliff
I've fooled around with some electronics, and the temptation is always there to let a machine do the rythym, then I think of what a great musician our bass player is, and of the great drummers I have went to see that were human and great rythym guitar players. Does not having to split the take make up for machine sounds, no matter how good they are? (My wife and I used to love a man and wife duo in San Diego at the Green Onion that played jazz favorites with a piano and a bass machine.)
This is a tough question if you need the money, and I have given it much thought.
Bailey |
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December 2001
Posts: 7251
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | There is a whole genre or style of music that uses loops and samplers for guitarsts (besides the obvious). We saw a phenom guitarist at the summer NAMM last year who I believe uses an Oberhiem sampler, and just keeps layering percusive and harmonic parts until the tune sounds like a complete orchestra and it's just one guy, doing it live. Pretty amazing stuff if you are into that. I actually think Les Paul was one of the first to do this with a simple echo unit. It has grown since then. |
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August 2002
Posts: 623
Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Bailey-
There is nothing, in my opinion, that can replace playing with other musicians in terms of magic, energy, talent, and that human interaction element that makes making music with others such a tremendously fun experience. I LOVE jamming with others, and seeing live bands. It's a high I can't describe.
I have a duo that I play in, my girlfriend being the other half, and she sings. We have a ton of fun, and love what we do. Best of all, I get along well with the other band members (!) and we usually see eye to eye. Our practice schedule is pretty convenient, since we live together. We don't have to deal with egos, drugs, drunks, and bad attitudes within the "band".
I've been in many bands over the years, and the headaches are countless...just arranging practice schedules is a chore. It's very hard to find people who you can see eye to eye with, who are dedicated, flexible, strive to become better, and are serious about having fun with it. When you find those people, it's SO worth making everything happen...be it a duo, band, etc.
With that said, at this point, being the guitar player and "band" within our duo (we both sing), I have to be the rhythm section ALL THE TIME. We invite players to come up and jam at our shows, but pretty much, it's up to me to keep the backbone of the songs going on one guitar. This forces me to keep getting better, and lends for a NEED to look for creative ways to keep things interesting song to song. I really don't use many effects at all, so I'm usually searching within myself for that creativity.
When I see/hear someone using a piece of equipment or a playing technique that can expand my horizons, I naturally want to explore it. But this is not in order to have a crutch, nor to replace the need for other players. And I don't make enough money (at this point) from gigs to even consider it a real source of income to be concerned about sharing it! I'm still playing, simply for the love of it.
When the right people come along, I will be grabbing the opportunity to make the most of it, I can assure you that! In the meantime, I'm happy with the duo I'm in, and may occassionally consider using some technology to expand creativity.
All the best!
Johnny |
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August 2002
Posts: 623
Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | As if I haven't said enough....!
I forgot to mention that Robert (the guy mentioned above) is a full time musician...primarily playing solo gigs, and occassionally doing band gigs. Knowing this, I can certainly overlook the lack of a drummer, etc., when the boy needs to eat. In his case, definitely the paycheck matters a lot.
I respect him for making a go of full time musician, and making it work for 12 years now. His use of technology doesn't hinder my enjoyment of seeing him play live either. Would I rather see him use a drummer...of course! But he is a fantastic songwriter, singer, and incredibly unique. The technology doesn't discredit any of that, in my opinion.
Enjoy the weekend!
Johnny |
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March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | I hear ya!
Rob's a VERY talented musician and a good entertainer. I wasn't trying to take any of that away from him. My opinion on the whole "pedal" thing was just that - my personal opinion.
The last band I was in was a four-piece rock band. EVERYBODY had a microphone. Everybody had to set up/connect their mics. Everybody had their respective mic levels set. When it came time to play at the gigs, I was the only one singing (although I do have to give Rick my guitarist credit, he did make an effort to back me up). It seemed the other two guys would get instant "stagefright" and wouldn't go NEAR their mic(s). I had considered buying one of those peadals I saw in MF where you just punch in the "key" your singing in and it gives you various configurations of harmony using your own voice. . . . . I opted for just leaving the band.
Thankfully, in the acoustic duo format, Rick has been forced to use his pipes more and has developed himself a rather good singing voice (he was always the "guitarist that kinda' sings, and I was the singer that kinda' plays guitar - we sort of cancelled-out each other's weaknesses.
I think that if I was in Robert's circumstance, I'd probably do whatever I could to free up my hands to give the most bang for the buck as well.
I once saw this guy playing in a bar who sang, played acoustic guitar, had a harmonica around his neck, his left foot was playing a high hat, and his right foot alternated between playing a kickdrum pedal that was hitting a tambourine with a drumhead on it or a set of bass pedals! (If he wasn't playing sitting down, I'm sure he would've found a free "orifice" for a kazoo :rolleyes: ) |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Cliff-
I did see a guy on the Atlantic City Boardwalk last year...playing guitar standing up...with an entire drum kit on his back, with a washboard! He had strings connected to his elbows and feet triggering it all as he played guitar. It was a sight, and very creative. I watched him for about a half hour...he played pop and classic rock songs.
All I kept thinking was, if someon ran up and stole his tip bucket, there was NO chance he could EVER catch them! His gear was strapped on and must've weighed 50lbs.
Different strokes...
Johnny
By the way...LOVE your car! All the best with it! |
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May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Guys
Great discussion, and you have touched on the many times I have thought about going out to the coffee shops with a guitar and a rythym machine, and I might do it yet. There are so many problems with a band!! Remember that I am ANCIENT and whatever I say is ANCIENT HISTORY.
Bailey |
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February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | There's a guy over here who has a piece of wood on the floor with a couple of stick-on guitar transducers attached. He wears tap-dancing shoes & stomps on this board which goes through some Eq & reverb into the PA. Produces pretty good, totally organic drum sounds to go with his guitar & vocals |
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August 2002
Posts: 623
Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Bailey-
The question you brought up is a really fantastic one, and worthy of a lot of consideration (use of technology vs. live musicians for a larger "take"). I have found myself pondering it considerably and was hoping more members were going to jump in with opinions, thoughts and/or experiences.
Is it really "ancient" to prefer live musicians over using technology?
I try to keep an open mind, though I do tend to have more of a purist way of thinking-perhaps I'm ancient too. There seems to be a fine line between using technology tastefully to enhance a performance and abusing it to the point of losing authenticity. I've seen/heard great musicians do fantastic things with technology, and still other musicians lean on it dismally with horrid results, trying to compensate for talent.
I'd still rather hear live musicianship created from something with a real pulse. But, not everyone can just bring the whole band/orchestra to the bar, so in comes a keyboard, or a loop station, or a midi-computer, etc. Should the audience not hear a great musical (say-violin) part because you didn't happen to have a real violinist hired to join you that night?
Sometimes,too, it just really comes down to NEEDING a larger "take" on the gig to pay the rent and eat, so you have to forgo the hired violinist/drummer/backup singer/rhythm guitarist, etc. Does that automatically invalidate the integrity of the performance?
Maybe.
John |
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January 2003
Posts: 1498
Location: San Bernardino, California | There's a flip-side to this as well. Not all good musicians are good technologists. I've heard gigs where the technology was so sterile that it destroyed the preformance. |
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May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Good discussion!
John Hartford (he wrote "Gentle on My Mind") used to have a clause in his performing contract that required a platform built to his specification, on which (never use "which" when "that" will do), he would mike and stomp out the rythym as he played his fiddle or sang.
Modern technology is so good that a player who lets his robot backing sound sterile is not in control of his equipment.
There is a certain musicianship involved with mastering this stuff.
Bailey |
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December 2001
Posts: 7251
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Bailey,
You hit it on the head. Basically if you can tell that it isn't a human these days, they are doing something wrong.
As far as the mic on platform goes... One of my clients does a blues act.. just him and his guitar and some stage props. We have been working with PZM mic's under a carpet that his chair sets to get the "right" sound of his foot tapping. Reminds me of Foley work. Things mic'd rarely sound right without some tweaking. |
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December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | Miles
there was a guy that used to market something called the back porch which was a couple of pieces of wood with piezos attached to do that foot stomping thing. I don;t know if he is still making them or not |
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December 2001
Posts: 7251
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Yeah that sounds like the same theory Bo Weevil is using. We ended up in testing with a PZM on the wood floor (or stage) under a 4 x 6 area carpet thay he uses just to dress up the stage. If he plants his chair directly over the PZM we were getting a very natural sound through the PA. His toe taps sounded like such, heel was thumpier, etc... The carpet worked out nice too as when he gets up for breaks and such, it doesn't pick up the footsteps... unless he wants too. That "back porch" thing tho sounds interesting, and if someone already invented it... no need to re-invent it. Bo hasn't actually tried our technique at a gig, we were just experimenting. He has a few instrumental tunes that lend themselves to a little foot-stomp'n and he was looking for ideas for the audience to hear it. I'll post what I find. |
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Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | This thing is getting too technical, I'm plugging in my Yamaha KB and kicking in some chorus ooohs and aaahs, and a helicopter effect, cause thats where I came in. |
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Keep on Loopin'?
