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February 2003
Posts: 299
Location: Netherlands | Hi, from another messageboard i got these tips, I was wondering if anyone ever tried them. Otherwise they maybe of interest to someone on this board, so i'll just post them here.
Martin.
1.
Howdy,
I must humbly disagree with the assertion that
acoustic pickups change the sound of the guitar.In 20 years of soundreinforcement I
have found the Takamine system to be AWESOME. Plug
in and play. The sound is superb.
If you want a cheap, effective acoustic P/U, go to
Radio Shack. Buy a 273-064 piezo buzzer. Pry it out of the case.
Remove the blue wire. Solder the red contact to the center of a
cable. Solder the black contact to the shield. This works EXCELLENT
for mandolin, violin, harp,(string), and pretty well for guitar if you tape the transducer to an area that doesn't pick up the boxy sound of the body. Best on the bridge or as close to it as you can get. Tape another to the headstock, neck joint or bottom of the fretboard.
Best to build a couple of them and EXPIREMENT with
different positions until you get the sound you want. No preamp required, hot output, excellent tone and VERY LITTLE FEEDBACK PROBLEMS! Try it,
you may be surprised. All for less than $10.
2.
And by the way, my absolute favorite "acoustic" pickup was designed by a friend of mine. We just played a Gospel service over the weekend and I was reminded at how unbelievably good it sounds.
The other unbelievable part is that its a magnetic
pickup and it goes in the sound hole and it sounds
like you have a mic on the guitar with none of the bad stuff. And the pickup is? EMG ACS. The only thing I noticed that was odd was that he had removed the pole piece from the "B" string since the last time I saw the guitar (he usually plays drums with us).
I'm not kidding. The sound that comes out of the PA sounds like the acoustic sound that comes out of his guitar when you are standing in front of it. He was telling me that he got nothing but grief from his boss while he was building it because it was "costing too much". I think the real reason my friend held fast on it was because he wanted the pickup for himself. |
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February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | The Radio Shack "pickup" is nothing new, any piezo buzzer can be made to work as a pickup simply by reversing the wires, though soldering to the buzzer is tricky & it's easy to damage it. The problem with these is that they have a massively high output impedance, so need a good preamp, they will sound absolutely terrible without a pre. They also have a very peaky response so need lots of eq, and that's before you put soundboard placement into the equation. They can be made to work well on smaller instruments such as mandolins & ukes, I've also had some success with piezo buzzers on resonator instruments but for guitars, don't waste your time. A better idea is to buy piezo cable or piezo film & experiment with making your own under-saddle pickups. It's a little more expensive & a little trickier but can produce a pickup comparable to proprietary after-market pickups. You will of course need a preamp with these also.
As for magnetic pickups, most of the name-brand soundhole magnetics do a decent job, especially when combined with a piezo or microphone. The EMG he refers to is pretty good but is hardly as accurate as he suggests. My personal favourites are the Sunrise & the Fishman Rare Earth. Regardless of manufacturer & what they may say about compatibility with acoustic guitar strings, the tone & string to string balance of any soundhole magnetic will be improved by the use of nickel rather than bronze strings. |
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Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Again
Techno-god has spoken, PT you seem to wallow in tschnical equipment, and we seem to benefit from it. What do you think of my 30 year old BB Jr. that is stuck on my mandolin and I fear is due to expire at any time, or my Martin preamp that I plug it into so I can control volume and treble?
Bailey |
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February 2003
Posts: 299
Location: Netherlands | Paul, thnx,
I found it hard to imagine it was 100% true what they said, and to be honest, I gather there's more knowledge about electro-acoustic guitars overhere than on the other board.
CU,
Martin |
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Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Bailey, your pickup should last a lifetime. They can't "wear out" The only possible bugbear is if the cable breaks internally at the point it exits the pickup, in which case it can't be repaired. This can happen if the pickup is constantly removed & replaced on the instrument but if yours is fixed it'll be fine. The old Barcus Berry pickups work fine with a decent preamp, especially on small soundboard instruments such as a mandolin. If it ain't broke don't fix it. |
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December 2001
Posts: 7222
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | In the late 70's and early 80's I went through some pickups. Now I know technically they can't "wear out", but on the otherhand that is the best description to what was happening. I think there are some other factors in play that have to do with the care and feeding of the pickups.
DiMarzio and Carvin humbuckers were the worst for me. I loved the sound, for about 6 months, but then I'd have to swap'em out for new ones. It was very noticable to me at the time because not only was I playing a lot, I was using Rockman gear which is very sensitive to the input signal. The pickups would eventually just start to not be as "punchy" as they were when new and the Rockman compressor would really accentuate this.
My theory is that humidity and crud getting into the pickups was the culprit, not the "pickup going bad" so to speak. Now on an Acoustic, I can't really imagine what would make an acoustic pickup act the same unless you buried it in mud.
I never had a Seymour Duncan pickup loose its oomph. |
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November 2002
Posts: 1300
Location: Madison, Wisconsin | Does anybody else have any opinions on acoustic sound hole pickups? It doesn't look like I'll be able to afford an Ovation 12 any time soon so I need to put something in my Martin. Paul,there are a couple of different Fishman models, any input there? |
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Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | lace sensor makes a good sound hole pickup probably the best I have heard. the dean markley is a good reliable standby. I have a few of the old dearmonds that I used in the 70's and I love them |
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Posts: 1498
Location: San Bernardino, California | FYI: some wire insulation types can deteriorate due to body chemistry (sweat), damned if I can remember which kind of insulation though. Enamal maybe? |
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Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Thanks Paul
That gives me a good feeling about just playing and not worrying. I don't really need the pickup as I have some really good mikes, but the pickup gives me the strong presence that I like. Now I will really start the controversy. What is the best acoustic mike? (this has been discussed before but it is worth revisiting, as new mikes have surfaced.)
Bailey |
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Posts: 7222
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Generally the "best" mic for acoustic guitar is two of them. There are many factors but a good combination is a large diaphram condenser (placed pointing at the top, just in front of the neck) and another maybe sm57 type pointing around the 3-7 fret area.
When people ask me "what is the best mic" my answer is usually "whichever one sounds the best." Unfortunatly most people do not have the luxury of picking and choosing mic's, so go with a good 1" or bigger condenser and an SM57, mix and place to taste, and you should be fine. It's a combination used for years. If you have an Ovation with a pre-amp, use it also if you can.
If you can't afford a good condenser mic, and you are using an Ovation, I'd say SKIP the mic and use the pre-amp.
Of course this is all for recording, live is a different story. Ovation's pre-amp is the best for live, but if you have to use a mic, and you can use your own, you might want to try an Audix D1 drum mic. It has a wide range, and although you have to stay in the "sweet spot" you will ahve little problems with feedback.
Short of all of the above, grab an SM57 and play with the EQ till it tastes just right. |
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Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Ok here's another perspective. The last thing you want to use is a Dynamic mike such as an SM57 or similar, they do not have frequency response to accurately reproduce an acoustic stringed instrument. Their low sensitivity means they need to be placed pretty close which produces an unnatutral and boomy bass-response due to to the "proximity effect". Their low output means on relatively quiet instuments such as guitars that input gain needs to be cranked, which in a live situation promotes feedback and in the studio raises the noise-floor. Condenser mikes are essential in my opinion & budget condensers will out-perform all but the best & most expensive dynamics for acoustic instuments. Affordable condensers which will do a fine job live or in the studio include the AKG C1000 and Rode NT3.
I absolutely agree with Miles that a pair of mikes produces the best results for recording and there's lots of ways to use a pair which will produce great results.
Bailey was refering to the old "stick-on" type piezo transducer, rather than magnetic pickups |
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February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Willard, Your're right, there's several different Fishman Rare Earth pickups. The originals were designed by Mike Vanden in Scotland & sold in the UK as Mimesis pickups. Vanden's design was licensed by Fishman. The original Vanden/Rare Earth pickups are active (ie have a preamp and battery built in to the pickup) Fishman have since introduced a cheaper passive Rare Earth pickup which is OK but nothing special. The active Rare Earths come in 2 versions - single coil or Humbucker. It's a question of taste, they look identical and both sound fine, the single coils are brighter, the 'buckers are a little darker and louder. They also do a version with an AKG miniature condenser mike attached to a gooseneck outside the guitar, which is very cool, but quite expensive.
If anyone wants to experiment with making pickups you'll find Piezo buzzers in musical or talking greetings cards, which can be rewired as in the original post. |
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Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Paul T
My BB Jr is a stick on as you have described. It works great so far, but has made me very touchy about handling my mandolin. I need to work on playing it plugged in. The other problem is, I've played it 30 years and the frets are worn, there is nobody here I would trust to refret it. That's the problem living close to Mexico in a cowboy town and playing bluegrass.
Bailey |
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alternative acoustic pickups
