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November 2002
Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | The new LX series guitars feature braces that are scalloped. This is a method of bracing that companies like Martin have been using for years. What advantages does scalloped bracing provide? How do they affect tone quality? |
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December 2003
Posts: 1071
Location: Carle Place, NY | The purpose of scalloped bracing in to remove mass from the braces. The spruce tops require bracing to resist the string tension; however bracing adds mass to the top. The more mass in the top the less responsive it will be. In scalloping, some of the wood at the ends of the braces is removed but the strength of brace is mostly retained. The braces are therefore lighter which makes the top more responsive. Although there are many who despise Taylor guitars at this site, the Taylor website does have an excellent description, with photos, of how they do the scalloping. By the way, I also own a 1619. |
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January 2004
Posts: 1225
Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | I own 2 Martins, both of which have spruce tops but one has scalloped bracing and the other has non-scalloped bracing. I personally don't think that the regular bracing takes much (if anyhting) away from the sound. To be fair, I play mostly "plugged in" so bracing issues really don't impact my sound. You do need to be careful not to use strings that are too heavy with the scalloped bracing. Martin recommends using Medium or lighter strings (which I think would suit most people's needs anyway). If you over-string the guitar, you can cause the top to buckle in the bridge area. |
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January 2004
Posts: 648
Location: Florida | Heresey.... but Taylor ain't so bad. If I got another acoustic, I'd probably get one of thier Jumbo's |
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December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | I used to get them fried but broiled is nice too
so is "coquilles St. Jacques" |
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January 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ | I found this an interesting topic, as we're all striving for the quality sound. As for the 1619, I own one also, 1981 Sunburst. I also own a Taylor 514CE. I don't know why they would be despised on this site. They are a bit overpriced, and Ovation Guitars (USA made) certaintly are high quality, with beter electronics. I had just ordered the Legend 1777LX. Ovation can score a real hit with this LX bracing sound, as we all know, Ovations (as opposed to Martins) are made to be played above the 5th fret. |
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March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | ". . . Coquilles St. Jacques . . ."
OH!! Now you went and struck a "nerve", Al!!!
(excuse me while I salivate all over my keyboard . . ) |
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Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | My concern with the scalloped bracing is that it HAS TO hurt the strength of the top. It means that these guitars will have more of a tendency for the tops to pull up, get wavy, etc.
I'm very interested in comparing the sound of an LX to the current regular mid-bowl model between the same model of guitar to see just how much better it is, and if the improved sound seems worth it.
I would agree that a less-durable guitar with fantastic sound is more desirable than a durable guitar with good sound.
Roger
1976 Applause AA14-4 6-String
1981 Ovation 1118-1 Glen Campbell 12-string
2001 Adamas 1598-MERB Melissa Etheridge 12-String
2003 Ovation 1777-4 Legend 6-string |
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March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | I would love to weigh in with a strong opinion on the LX's but I have yet to find one in Southern California. I'll keep looking. At the Guitar Centers, they don't even know what they are. |
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January 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ | Unfortunetly, you won't find the LX''s at the Guitar Center or Sam Ash for that matter. They don't seem to stock the higher many end Ovations.
I ordered mine through Musicians friend. |
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February 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: Warren,Pa. | For me, the greater issue with the LX's is the X-brace pattern. We all know this isn't a new idea...it's been used by all the other companies for a long time. I always thought my Ovations were cool partly because they had this "better design" with the fan bracing. Ovation seemed to think so! Why all of a sudden are we "discovering" scalloped X-bracing? ( I don't mean to throw this hand grenade onto the discussion table...I'll stick with Ovation. I just like to ask some hard Q's). Any answers out there? John. |
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March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | I bought my first Ovation in 1972 and it had the "better" bracing pattern, a VT something. I thought it was fine, and later, in 1978 I bought a Legend, also with the VT pattern. Over the years, I gradually came to realize that neither guitar had any bass. It wasn't until the "A" bracing pattern became available on more of the Ovation line and I bought one (1537 Elite), that I heard a really full sound from Ovation.
I don't think Ovation had to have a great acoustic sound in the 70's. Everybody was playing them for the plugged in sound. In the 80's, when the acoustic sound became really good again (more on that "again" in a second), it was good, but it didn't make that much difference as Ovation moved further into the plugged in sound. Finally in the 90's, they were all the way there and the vast majority of the Ovation line went to shallow or super shallow bowls. The straight acoustic sound didn't matter.
Last year I rescued, for a friend, from an ebay auction, a 1967-68 Deluxe Balladeer. I heard for the first time how good Ovations sound in the very early years. Since then, I found and bought one for myself. It is easily one of the best acoustics I've ever played. I think a big part of that is the "X" bracing pattern, similar to what Ovation used in the late 60's.
What's interesting about this is now, when I watch ebay, the early 70's Balladeers and Custom Balladeers catch my eye. They have the "X" bracing pattern.
So to recap, in the 60's Ovation made a great acoustic guitar. In the 70's they got away from that. They came back again in the 80's and went away again in the 90's. Now they are moving back again. Seems like from 1970 on they were on a 10 year cycle.
The Adamas guitars aren't part of all of the above.
All of this is IMHO. |
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Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 171
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma | It's funny this discussion about scalloped bracing came up because I was discussing this with a guy last night about his 1971 Martin D-28. He plays it pretty much every night at gigs and it's his workhorse.. (bluegrass, country and blues).. Martin did not have the scalloped bracing in the early seventies and made their guitars "tough and durable".. This made the guitar sound dull and muffuled (sp?).. Well he sent his D-28 to a guy in Pheonix to get the bracing scalloped. Difficult to do because it's done through the round hole. The difference in the sound is rather remarkable.. It brought out a real brightness and depth in the guitar and it hasn't had any structural effect on the guitar during the past 5 years... He won't send his 1956 D-18 to him tho because of some cracks in the top.. I am wondering tho if it might be worth the "test" to send an unscalloped "tester" ovation to him to have him scallop the bracing to see if it might bring some more depth to the acoustic sound..
If anyone would like the guys name and number in Pheonix I can get it to who ever would like it..
Gerald |
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February 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: Warren,Pa. | Hey Gerald, this guy in Phoenix...is that 'Parabolic Braceworks'? I saw his add a few years ago in AG magazine and called him about working in my early 80's CL 12 string. He told me that since there were no back braces in my guitar he wouldn't charge me as much. He was talking around $400. The work included thinning out the bridge around the edges to reduce mass there. Talked for quite a while and it all sounded very impressive,though I never had it done. Anyway... I guess one would have to have a higher-end Ovation to justify the price. John. |
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February 2004
Posts: 171
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma | Hey John,
I'm not sure who it is but I'll be seeing Mark, (the guy who got his D-28 worked on) this Wed. so I'll get all the info from him then... I'd be interested in just buying a regular Balladeer off of e-bay and recording some things played on it then sending it off and seeing what he can do with it... I figure it might be worth trying it out on an Ovation... I'll have all the information on Thursday...
Best to Ya!
Gerald |
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Scalloped bracing question
