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Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | I was at my local not so good music store last week getting some strings. They have one Elite LX on the wall and and standard Balladeer. This guy was playing the Balladeer and he was a good player. I asked him what he thought of Ovations, and this was his quick responce. "They are overpriced". I asked why he thought this, and he said "the bowl must cost nearly nothing to produce". I told him I have no idea how much the bowl costs, but I find Ovations to be a great deal in the acoustic guitar world. We didn't say to much more to each other as I was getting nowhere. Does anyone have any idea how much Ovation pays to have the bowls made? I am curious myself, and I would love to run into this fellow with more information. |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA | Paul,
There is no good answer for this guy. It is what we have done to ourselves. I can have what I want at a very low price totally uncaring of who had to suffer to get it. In my impatience I know I have to struggle with my "Walmart Mentality" at times. We have Globilized to save a buck and this is the by-product - a complete lack of caring about quality. You won't find any repairman for a lot of electronics because they are considered disposable now.
He sees that $200 Plywood guitar on the wall and because it looks like a guitar he thinks it is one.
The difference between a Celebrity Deluxe and a Balladeer with the same bowl and electronics? Maybe $250.
What went into making it right? Priceless. |
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Joined:
January 2004
Posts: 648
Location: Florida | Two points -
First...
Its not what the item costs to manufacture that sets its selling price. The cost expense is only one of many expenses, but even given that: Its the market that controls the price. When an item is being designed for sale in a market, you shoot for a value point... some place where its features and benefits make the price justified in the market. Once the value point is established, its up to the design team to make those features and benefits as inexpensively as possible, thus maximizing profits. Part of the design is also the investment in tooling needed for the anticipated production (which is reported as part of finding the value point).
All of this goes totally backward from conventional thinking which says - it costs me X to produce, therefore I'll sell it for X+(whatever) and make a profit. Real manufacturing doesn't work that way.
So even if the bowls were free... hell... even if Ovation was paid by the producer of bowls just to use them, the price on the final product would be the same.
Look at Taylor (as I mentioned a while ago). For essentially the same guitar but with different materials, they charge nearly a grand more (ok so thats list price). This is for what amounts to maybe five or ten dollars more in raw materials cost. I mean Ovation does it too... you want to go from BalladeerLX to LegendLX and you get a better top, different binding, ebony versus rosewood parts, and gold plated tuners and buttons. Street price difference, about $200 to $250. Certainly the cost in materials alone does not justify that much increase - but the market (and that all important value point) does!
Second...
I try to keep in mind, when I'm in a big box guitar store, what my mother (hey its Mother's Day!) told me as a young boy. She said, son, if you play with shit, you're gonna get some on ya. |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Up and down the line,Ovation offers more bang for the buck, jump for the jingle,and more dynamite for the dollar than any other guitar.
Brad |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | Paul
why do you even entertain these guys?
sure a set of strings is $4.95 but a roll of 1000 feet of wire is only 9.99
you cannot argue with the logic. He is one of those guys that looks at the ovation and think they are made on an assembly line with no human contact.
just move on. |
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Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Your right Al. I guess I just believe in Ovation so much that I try to convert every guitarist I see. I gota lighten up! :D |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7222
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I would have answered the guy. A question like that sounds like it's coming from the "it's made of plastic" crowd. It's not plastic. I would have just grabbed the LX brosure, mention the micro-bead thing that you can't just use "plastic." I would have also mentioned they are made in Ohio and briefly described the several steps we saw on the factory tour that it takes to put the top on the guitar, like removing the frame, adding the lip, polishing, fitting etc... which is all done by hand. Oh that's right... you weren't there. :( But anyway, I find when you point the details out to most people, if they are interested at all, they get very interested very quickly. |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA | Paul,
Never give up.
Do what you must.
They are lost. They need you.
Ever think back on a time when you needed a smack-up-side-the-head and to be set straight?
Besides - it's like telling other drivers how they should drive - it's what we do!
Peace |
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Joined:
March 2003
Posts: 555
Location: Wooster, Ohio | I have always liked the composite back of Ovations much more than the wood back. I own many wood box guitars and I always have to think is my belt buckle messing it up. Ovation's back is tuffer in an area that can get abuse especially when used alot on stage. It is one aspect that makes it a overall superior instument. It also is I am sure cheaper than putting together a wood back. For Ovation this just gives them the ability to give me a superior product at a better price. I think that is a good thing. |
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Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | There is no point wasting your breath on most of these people. His mind was made up, facts would only confuse him.
On Brad's point about value...I played some guitars last week that I think give Ovation some competition on that.....Garrison. They are a Canadian company that has guitars with a glass fiber bracing frame, tied into the neck and the bridge. The wood of the top, back and sides is attached around the bracing.
The models I played, in the $700 to $1000 range are all solid wood, no laminated. The sound was pretty good for the money. I played a G30, which is $700, and played a used S771 Balladeer right after and I couldn't tell that much difference in acoustic sound quality. In fact, the Garrison might have had a little more mid-range definition.
I wonder if Garrison suffers from potential buyers looking in the sound hole and seeing the plastic-looking bracing("boy, I bet this costs nothing to produce").
Just curious if anyone else has played Garrisons and what you think of them.
Roger |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | I have played garrisons and they do absolutely nothing for me. |
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Bowl price?
