|
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15686
Location: SoCal | In the early 70's Ovation decreased the headstock angle to the neck because, I think, they were having problems with breakage at the base of the headstock.
The reason I bring this up is that I was looking at a Takamine ad the other day and realized that the Tak had a strong angle there. I was wondering how much that would contribute to the sound and if Ovation had, in the last couple of years played with the thought of going with a steeper angle. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Hey, that's why those who know prefer slotheads!
My 68 Josh White (thanks Dave!) has a much steeper headstock angle than all my other slotheads |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15686
Location: SoCal | So the question is still "has Ovation lately played with a steeper headstock angle?" |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2003
Posts: 146
Location: Ct./ USA | The nut shelf is a determining factor. Also structural considerations and cosmetics determine the angle of the dangle. You could use a dowl setup to attach to the angle of the backside of the neck a process we do not undertake at this time but may provide more dangle and a diffrent look and sound? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ | The increased headstock angle is (in my opinion) one of the reasons the first generation Ovations shound superior to the later ones. Couple the increased angle with a slotted headstock, which further increases the angle, and (as Temp says) the Josh White kicks ass. I think it's because of the increased pressure on the nut. The drawback is that if you knock the guitar over, there is a darn good chance that you will lose your headstock. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | The original was 14* and it went back to 7* to help stop the breakage. Having the T-rod adjustment up there weakened it too. Adamas was 10* and the adjustment is at the back so that's better, both ways. I think the new aLeX series is 10* but not sure. There was talk of going steeper than 7 but I don't know where it ended up.
I do agree that a sharper angle is better for the sound. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2002
Posts: 61
| Any neck ran on the CMS is 10* so pretty much all the ovation line is 10*,Viper.6773/4,and classics are still 7* |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | OK they're all 10* now. The Weeper and classics, while the wood is 7* the actual string pitch is quite a bit more since it goes down to the middelish of the p/h.
Now the next question will be which is better 10 or 14?. Well 10 is way better than 7 but 10 to 14... I think we're getting into diminishing returns here. Yes it's probably better but not as much as the 7 to 10 change.
Paul T and others, thoughts?? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | I agree with Bill, I think there'd be negligible difference soundwise in the extra 4 degrees. As Dave said, the old pegheads with a 14 degree pitch are accidents waiting to happen. On the 7 degree non-slotted pegheads it's a good idea to have the string wrap around the post several times, which takes the string towards the bottom of the post and increases the break-angle over the nut. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 2487
| I am converting a brand new Rickenbacker Bass from a 4 string to a 5 string so I am a bit of an experimenter as well. I don't know the differences in sound quality or what the actual gains will be in undertaking a project like this on an Ovation Acoustic Guitar? But it seems to me I find a slight change in sound with a simple change of the material used for the nut? Bone or brass both seem to improve the sound but I honestly can't imagine changine the headstock angle would be worth the effort? perhaps a slightly different sound unplugged? but once you plug in anything gained will be lossed through efects or amplification? I am certainly not an expert but this is not a simple project and can devalue your guitar if not done perfectly? Right? My 2 cents worth Randy |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ | Temp, you're absolutely right. I normally string my guitars with two full wraps around the post. But I took your advice and restrung with three full wraps, thus bringing the string angle closer to the face of the headstock by one full diameter of string. The increased break angle over the nut made an incredible difference in the sound. Much more volume. And the ring and sustain was something I had not heard for a very long time. I can't believe I never thought of this before. My guitar sounds better than ever. Thanks so much for the tip. I can't believe what a big difference it has made.
PS - The old strings I took off were at least 3 years old and pretty well rusted and dead. But I'm still sure it was the extra wrap of string that made all the difference. Ha Ha. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15686
Location: SoCal | We have offically desended into sarcasm. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Randy, nobody is suggesting a DIY conversion. Ovation guitars have have had 3 headstock pitches over the years, 14*, 7* & currently 10*. The question raised was does a steeper headstock make for a better-sounding guitar, and the consensus is "probably" |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2002
Posts: 153
Location: Huntington Beach, CA | I have often wondered about the angle of the strings above the nut. I've always used 3 to 4 wraps so the increased angle helps. If one were that concerned, however, I guess you could do the Fender thing and screw a couple of those string restraints into the headstock between the posts and the nut.
My question is, have you ever noticed the angle from the saddle back through the bridge? I hate a twangy sounding guitar and I notice that the high E and B strings have a slight angle compared to the rest of the strings.
I read that there should be at least a 45 degree angle to get a good bite at the saddle. There is no way that can be done on an Ovation for the B and high E unless you raise the saddle to some ridiculous height, making the instrument virtually unplayable on the treble side.
I compensate for the twang with a higher action than I prefer and heavier strings. I have 3 Ovations (all US) and they are all the same. I've been to 2 Ovation authorization warranty repair places and this is the best we can come up with.
Like the other guys that have shared their GC experiences, I can't find a good Ovation in stores and screw the crap you find on Ebay so I'm back on Martins and Guilds for acoustic play.
Good luck to the rest of you. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Originally posted by Eman:
I I notice that the high E and B strings have a slight angle compared to the rest of the strings.
This is a gross generalisation. The saddle break angle in any flat-top guitar is a direct function of the neck pitch. Whatever any manufacturer would like to tell you about consistency, the neck pitch is a variable and in any factory-made guitar (and for that matter in hand-made instruments) the tolerance on neck pitch is pretty wide. Then we have to take into account the way the guitar is looked after throughout it's life. The fact is that Ovation guitars are no more or less suseptible to shallow string-break than any other guitar out there. I've seen more Martins, Guilds & Gibsons with zero saddle-break than I have Ovations. Furthermore, due to the way the string enters the rear of the bridge the Ovation pinless bridge is actually more tolerant of low saddles than pinned bridges. The ANS necks should pretty much eliminate neck set problems on Ovations in the future. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 2487
| Paul I stand corrected! I have been in Guitar alteration mode lately?
And now that it was mentioned I have always wound my strings as many times as I can around the tuner as long as they do not overlap Three wraps at least on the low strings 4 or 5 on the G & D strings and even more on the high strings I never thought it was the angle of the strings coming across the nut! Now it makes sense? I always though it was some electro, mechanical. vibrato, Harmonic property of the strings? In fact I do not like to cut my strings I roll them up and loop them at the headstock.
On an Ovation I have also wondered what these pickups would sound like if they were not made from plastic? It would be fun to try and remake one out of a harder material? I have no idea if there needs to be an insulation material in there somewhere but it would be fun to try! By the way Paul; I think you mentioned the value of a good Amp? I traded my Peavey E-110-FX in on an E-112-FX It is certainly better and with my little Zoom acoustic set up I am getting all kinds of fun sounds out of this thing. I will experiment with microphones next? It may not be the Amp of choice for you guy's but I'll tell ya it is pretty damn good. Went with the Boss GT-6B for the Ric. Bass. Still working on a good set of 4 10" speakers and a 400w head. Randy |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Originally posted by northcountry:
On an Ovation I have also wondered what these pickups would sound like if they were not made from plastic? It would be fun to try and remake one out of a harder material?
Randy, I had the factory install a handmade bone version of the standard plastic Ovation pickup saddle on my Custom Folklore. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | I've had the bone versions for years. Recently I tried a ceramic version and can't tell much difference from the bone. The harder material does produce a bit clearer sound.
How else would you describe it Paul T?
Josh White also told me once that by leaving the string full and wrapping up the end at the peghead you left the soul of the string intact and it would sound better. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 2487
| The Soul of the string! I like that I always thought it was unprofessional to cut the strings but I see that is what the pro's do most of the time?
Hey Guy's? Can I get a bone bridge for my Adamas's from Ovation still? Al, do you have anything like this? I will buy from you if you do? Thanks Randy |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | They were all custom made and cost about $150 I thought. They only fit on the big Ovation pickup, not the thinner ones they've been using lately. |
|
| |
Headstock angle
