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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | I'm taking a statement from the FRG thread and going in a different direction.
*******
Bailey said....
""""Good guitars are things of beauty and of superior sound, but that beauty is not the perfection of a coffee table or hutch that has no artistic use. As a good guitar is played and lived with and enjoyed, it ages just like we do and gets scratches, dings, stains, aging signs etc., none of which affects the sound or artistic merit, which usually improve as the visual appearance matures.
Guitars are not a good investment, the ancient Martins, Fenders, etc. that are valued in big bucks were all bought originally by some musician who just wanted a good guitar.
A GUITAR IS NOT FURNITURE TO BE JUDGED BY IT'S PERFECTION IN APPEARENCE. The design, materials, and ability to play to the standards of a good player are what counts."""""
*******
My guitars serve a dual purpose. I enjoy them for the use they are designed for and as something that is pleasing to the eye. I think they can be enjoyed for the design and craftmanship that goes into them. If art is defined as something that triggers an emotional response, then the four Ovations on display in my living room qualifies as art. Don't get me wrong. I enjoy playing them more than looking at them but the feeling is still there.
A coffee table or hutch can have artistic value by virtue of it's design, history or craftmanship. The condition of an item can effect it's artistic or historic value either way. A burn mark on a coffee table could be a bad thing but if it happened when Winston Churchill left a cigar burning, that's something else.
But..perhaps I digress.
I think on one level guitars can be judged by their appearance. The combination of wood with all of it's natural flaws and patterns used in an item that requires such geometric and mathimatical precision is meant to be appreciated that way. I marvel at mother natures handy-work in wood grain and how some talented souls designed and assembled something that is pleasing to the eye and yet be taken off the wall and be so pleasing in other ways.
I don't dissagree with Bailey. He just joggged some thoughts. |
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Joined:
November 2004
Posts: 100
Location: Asheville, North Carolina | Personally I view my guitars a tools, creative tools to say the least. Without them I can't do what I do. I have never been into the flashy bling side of guitar designs. The least amount of abalone, pearl and shiny gold, the better I say. Functionality is my first priority. However some really great sounding guitars are artfully beautiful. But I remember a thread in the Acoustic Guitar Forum about a custom art boutique guitar that the maker admitted sounded like crap and was a disappointment. But sold easily because it was so beautiful with inlays of pearl, gold shell and exotic woods....the buyer didn't play guitar. He just wanted to put in in a glass cabinet and look at it! :eek: |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | Line me up on the "Functional Art" side of things. The beauty of wood grain, material and finish as well as contour and symbolic recognition make statements even when they are static.
You can rake all the rocks you want - an Ovation hung on the wall is the apitome of Dynamic Tension.
A banjo on the wall - is just tension waiting to happen! :eek: |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15682
Location: SoCal | This is an interesting discussion. I've been grappling with this issue for the last several weeks. I've got 3-4 guitars hanging on my walls that just don't get played. I love them and they are wonderful to look at, but is that justification for keeping them? I've finaly decided to sell them over the next few months and put the money aside for the OFC guitar.
Life's too short to hang on to guitars "just for the hell of it". |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | Paul,
When my Daughters were younger they accumulated a lot of toys. The toys always seemed to outmatch the amount of room in the toy box. I found that if I scooped a few toys and put them away in a closet or container, they were easily entertained when I brought these "new" toys out three months later.
Put them away and revisit them later.
Or sell them to us! Whatcha got? |
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Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | I'm on the side of those who have to have their guitars work for them. But this is only because of my circumstances. If I had a million dollars I'd love to have a wonderful guitar collection and play the guitar all day. Life didn't turn out that way. That said I tried to get the nicest ones I can afford, and love ovations, and some people would actually like to trade positions with me. I don't begrudge (well a little bit) those who can have what they want whenever they want, or make a lifetime commitment to collecting. That's not in the cards for me. In the meantime, my little 4 guitar collection works nicely (My telecopy, my cc0057 (which is now my travel guitar), my CA and my MEWP). They work and I'm happy. If your guitar doesn't make you happy, then sell it. Life is too short to be lugging around useless things. |
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Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 2246
Location: Yucaipa, California | It's been said that Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...
...when I behold this:
2001 Redwood
I see beauty... it also has a dual functionality.. when it's played, I hear beauty.... |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | "dual functionality"....sounds kinda technical, but the term fits. They can be "just tools" or be something less tangible.
However, I don't think abalone or a carved bridge is needed to elevate a guitar to the level of art. It's a personal thing. Some may hang an elaborate oil painting on the wall and others put up a Farrah Fawcett poster (mmmmm... Faaarrrah). My old Balladeer is not all dressed up but it has simplicity. And maybe more important, personal history. Like someone here said, I got my DNA rubbed into it!
an4340...It doesn't have to be a million dollar collection! Your happy...that's what counts. |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | All in the interest of fun and distraction:
which would you prefer?
Hard Rock
:rolleyes: |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I think it depends on the guitar really. I own some guitars because they are fine workmanship, or jus look interesting, and some because the play great and some for both... I really like when "both" happens.
As fas as guitars not being a good investment, I beg to differ on that greatly. I consider anything you can buy, wait a few years and get almost twice what you paid out of it a good investment. Now this applys to many many USED guitars. New guitars, like anything else new (like cars)... not so much. Actually my favorite reference is that I really can't think of anything else you can buy, USE for 20+ years, Make money using it for 20+ years, and then sell it for at least what you paid for it. |
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Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 121
Location: Powder Springs, Ga. | Quote "it ages just like we do and gets scratches, dings, stains, aging signs etc., none of which affects the sound or artistic merit, which usually improve as the visual appearance matures."
Is there something I'm unaware of about getting older? What's this about "stains"? Is there any way to stop the staining? I'll do anything...even exersize twice a day and/or, God forbid, even stop eating my daily requirement of ice cream.
Please help. I'm looking forward to dieing but this staining things got me a bit concerned. |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | Lay off the Cheetos! |
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Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 164
Location: Denton, Texas | Visually, to me the Ovation guitar by itself is the most pleasing to look at of any guitar out there. To be complete however, the equation must include two vital components, an artist/musician to play it and sound to be emitted from it in that endevor. Anything other than that is in the eyes and ears of the beholder/s and travels from the visual/audible to the spiritual wherein the true experience lies. A Jaguar convertible under a tarp in a garage is nothing more than an idol unless it is taken out and driven. I know I am not alone idealistically here as it is obvious how often we OFC'ers pass our treasures on to one another so often. :) |
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Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 425
Location: SE Michigan | While I agree that many guitars are an art form, lately I've been think about guitars as literature. I've seen a number of post's that contend that if we all spent as much time playing guitars as we did reading and writing about them, we'd all make Chet Atkins look like a novice. And I agree to a point. I confess that in a given week I might spend more times poking through these message boards boards or nosing around Ebay or Elderly than I do actually playing guitar. But hey, its kind of hard to practice guitar while on a boring conference call. I can however browse the forums quite discretely.
But back to art, I say guitar literature is enlightening and entertaining. One of the best books I read lately detailed all of the Beatles equipment including guitars and amps. Some guys like to read about trains or wars or sports or fishing, I happen to enjoy reading about guitars. I suspect there are many others out there who probably enjoy the reading and posting allmost more than playing the guitar. |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | all my guitars are currently art and will probably be so for a few more months and it is KILLING me. |
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Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Welll (as Jack Benny would say)
I guess I have some interest here as I have been referenced.
My instrumants are far from being pieces of art and they are all old and beat to hell from travelling and playing in dives. My cases are falling apart after many years of travel and my instruments need cleaning and polishing.
What does an old person have in his beat up cases?
A TAKA solid wood Jap round hole Mandolin that I bought for $300 and played for years. It has a beautiful spruce top and curly maple back and a BB Jr glued on for amplification that I plug into a Martin preamp for volume and tone.
A Yamaki D41 copy that I bought new in the 70s and was played in our band by my son Charlie for some years and suffered some pick scratches on its beautiful top from things like Free Bird and Eagles songs, but put many a Martin to shame during those years.
A Viper that I bought new that I have discussed many times and is in pristine condition except for some cracks around the 1/4 plug.
A Kentucky "A" style mandolin given to me by Charlie to get some volume in our bluegrass band. Plywood, but it has a tremendous volume and solved the problem of matching the banjo player in acoustic situations. It was my main mandolin for a few years because it could be heard over the banjo. It's appearance is rather pedestrian as the British would say, but it REALLY worked.
A Chinese made "Johnson" F style mandolin that my grandson gave me last year that sounds as good as any mandolin I have heard, and I have heard a lot, if I was a manufacturer I would lobby to keep the Chinese out of the market.
A 1966 Fender Mustang that my daughter gave me that she bought in Portland, OR in the 80's with Seymore Duncan pickups that relly sounds great through a tube amp, of which I have two, a Carvin and a Pignose G40V.
Many harmonicas that I used to play when we were doing country with our band.
A Yamaha keyboard that I love playing on but was put in my place by my son Charlie, who started playing all kinds of songs with both hands while I was playing melody only and enjoying the built in rythyms. NEVER let your children know you want to play something they already know how to play.
I also have some mikes and amps and accessories that are gathering dust since I quit playing and started blathering on some idiotic web site.
Muddy Lemon Junkyard Dog |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 389
Location: RI. That small State out East | For me it has something to do with smiles.
I read a long time ago that a 10 yr. old kid smiles (big number) times a day and the avg. adult was "single diget's".
I do hang all my "Os" and only box the Martin. They do make me smile. Feel lucky maybe. They also are available for a visitor to walk up and...
Smile.
When I read a post of a new / old member and he wants to "shout" out that he just got... I smile, and remember the rush of getting...
Thanks to all for shairing the smiles.
Art / Music = :)
Woz |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | alpep....all my guitars are currently art and will probably be so for a few more months and it is KILLING me.
Al,
Maybe...just maybe...you can get yourself back into shape by playing a soprano uke and working your way back up! :D
Seriously, I hope your are back in the game soon. I would like to see you in top form by June 17th. |
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Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Guitars are art, they are meant to be hung on the walls.
Guitars are functional, they are meant to be played.
Guitars are useful, like the Vox fat jazz pos that was in a case and held up the bottom of the sofa for 2 years in college.
Guitars are currency, I've made some great trades, a Les Paul for a Caddy conv. one guitar for carpeting...
guitars are engineering marvels, how you make those parts make those sounds.
Guitars can be a nice investment vehicle and they usually appreciate tax free
Guitars make you feel good, looking at them, playing them, and he who dies with the most guitars wins. |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | . . . and the NUMBER ONE Reason on the Top10 List:
Guitars got the bras unsnapped.
- Let's be honest, shall we?? |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15682
Location: SoCal | Hey Cliff, time for your meds... |
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Joined:
May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | I didn't know cliff wore a bra. Huh. Learn something new every day. But, if playing the guitar somehow unhooks your foundation garments, cliff, maybe you're holding it wrong.
Or maybe not. |
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Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | and on the other hand...........
Guitars are a pain in the ass,
They take up too much room,
They're always out of tune,
The tuner got left on and the battery's dead
The strings are always dead or breaking
The cases take up too much room, everywhere,
They collect dust,
and when you get it off the wall, cleaned, dusted and tuned it needs the neck adjusted and you can't find the wrench,
And the big repairs you have to send it with Dale Jarret, and while he's OK his coworkers aren't, and it costs way too much to send it just to get it back broken again.
Enough to give you the blues so...
you get one down off the wall and start with the G7 and to the C9......... |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Well put cwk....both the upside and the down. |
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Joined:
July 2002
Posts: 327
Location: Houston, TX | When you try to define quality, it loses that indefinable "it". I can't tell you why I might like the appearance or sound of a certain new guitar or like the character and sound of a grizzled dinged up veteran guitar. I know what I like when I see it and hear it, and my judgement could be based on any or none of the aesthetic or aural traits.
Is anyone unclear that I don't know anything about anything? |
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Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | CWKII has got it right from all angles.
Guitars may or may not be art, but the picture in "THE BOOK" of "the book guitar" is ART and I spent some time looking at it and drooling. That is the prettiest piece of spruce I have ever seen.
AHA!
Guitars are not art, pictures of guitars are art!! |
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Guitars as Art
