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| Having decided to buy a piece of gear, I started checking the Bay, where I'd long been a member but it's been a while since I bought anything.
I learned that if it's desirable, the pros are gonna snatch it at the exact last second using sniping progams and other software that gives you no chance at all. After four tries only to be outbid by a buck at the last moment, I just bought the thing outright. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Agreed. Not looking for much these days, but when I do, I no longer go the bidding route. I'll either use the BIN feature, make one offer that I won't change, or submit one bid at the highest amount I'm willing to spend, then wait for the e-mail announcing the results. My last five bids were all losers. On the other hand, I find doing business with OFC members to be more satisfactory and the deals are as good or better. If you're looking for something in particular, post a WTB alert on the For Sale board and some member will likely find it for you on some obscure Craig's Listing or elsewhere. Members are continuously finding, buying, holding and shipping items for one another. That's one of the things I appreciate about this forum. |
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Location: Tuscany, Italy | "I learned that if it's desirable, the pros are gonna snatch it at the exact last second using sniping progams and other software that gives you no chance at all"
+1 ( :( ) |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | Members are continuously finding, buying, holding and shipping items for one another. That's one of the things I appreciate about this forum.
+1 Brad! |
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Location: Cincinnati | I do my own sniping on eBay. My bid usually hits with 5 seconds or less left on the auction. I just compare my computer clock to the auction time and submit the bid with under 10 seconds left. I haven't lost one due to a later bid yet. |
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Location: closely held secret | So play the game the way they do.
eSnipe (1% of final - min .25 max $10)
SnipeSwipe ($5.00 month unlimited or 1% of final)
Gixen (free)
SnipeStreet (free) |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Just curious . . . what happens if two automated snipe program users determine that they each must have an item and activate the program to submit a last second bid at listing plus the minimum next high bid? Is there something to prevent these programs from escalating beyond reason? If so, does it have to be pre-selected by the user, and if neither user is willing to limit their bid, is the sky the limit? Theoretically fascinating. |
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Location: Portland, OR | Ebay would cut that off I think at the very last second. Also, I don't think it's possible to have two simultaneous hits. They'll be separated by a second or some part of a second.
I think those programs take the fun out of it. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | On items I really wanted I have used snipe programs. It's all fair game. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | The sniping programs would only raise the bid until time expires and with usually less than 5 seconds left before they hit, there is not much chance for multiple rounds of bidding.
Therefore it considers highest bid you are willing to go and hits it. You can essentially do the same thing hours before hand and win the bid.
You NEVER lose a bid because of a sniper. The sniper is ALWAYS willing to pay a higher price than you. That's why their bid wins. |
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Location: closely held secret | 1) You have to tell the snipe service what your max bid is. Unless both bidders put in ridiculously high max bids... still
B) When an auction ends, it ends. The time involved in making an API post alone would keep it from spiraling.
III) Nothing happens simultaneously when the internet is involved, where things are measured by the millisecond....
Interestingly, on a liquidation auction site we buy product from, if a bid is made within the last 2 minutes, another 2 minutes is added to the auction end time. These can and do go on for quite a while, and you have to be very firm with yourself about how high you're willing to go. |
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Location: Chicago | I find doing business with OFC members to be more satisfactory and the deals are as good or better. If you're looking for something in particular, post a WTB alert on the For Sale board and some member will likely find it for you on some obscure Craig's Listing or elsewhere. Members are continuously finding, buying, holding and shipping items for one another. That's one of the things I appreciate about this forum. I would not have my Adamas otherwise. I could hardly buy a piece of used recording equipment on eBay: repeated sniping was a headache. PLUS it takes some skill to slip in there at the last five seconds. It tethers you to the computer, and I HATE that. |
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Location: NW Washington State | Originally posted by stephent28:
You NEVER lose a bid because of a sniper. The sniper is ALWAYS willing to pay a higher price than you. That's why their bid wins. That sums it up. If you really really wanted it, you'd pay a little more.
More generally, there are so many people using eBay these days (and so many people posting eBay "bargains" on forums like this) that it's almost impossible to get something below market.
-Steve W. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | The sniping program just bid your highest bid in the last five seconds, and eBarf does the rest.
I have had eBarf tell me that I have been 'outbid at the last second, bid again' but I am usually too late.
Like others have said... Just bid the highest you think it is worth, and forget about it.
They will let you know if you have won or not. |
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Location: Cincinnati | Originally posted by stephent28:
You NEVER lose a bid because of a sniper. The sniper is ALWAYS willing to pay a higher price than you. That's why their bid wins. To me the purpose of sniping is to keep the bid lower. If I don't put my bid in until the last second, other bidders don't have time to raise their bids if they are willing to pay more. I put in my highest bid when I snipe. I've won some and lost some, but I have never bid more just to win the auction. |
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Location: Utah | I usually put in a low bid just to put the auction on my email and ebay radar. Then if it is below my max on the last day I'll bid my max. If someone wants to pay more, they can.
What really bugs me is shill bidders. Several times I've been the first bid and seen someone inch the bid up until they just barely exceed my max. Then they never bid again on that item. Someone else usually bids more and wins it. Sure is suspicious, and I never go back to bid again when I see something like that. Interestingly, the same item frequently gets relisted by the original seller when the shill bidder wins.
Having said all that, now is a fantastic time to buy used quality stuff. Some people are downright desperate to sell, and there aren't many buyers. The forums seem to have better prices than the Bay, and generally an established member is a surer bet than some unkown on eBay.
Really, it is a public service to buy these guitars! The seller does need the money, so we are helping them out, and we get a good bargain at the same time.
I sure wish I had a few $thousand more to spend, or a wife that didn't monitor the banking statements! |
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Location: New Hampsha | Come the first of the year it will be a moot point. Fleabay is moving toward a different business model - they want to compete with Amazon, Overstock, and the like and not to deal with onesie-twosie sellers. They want everyone to be medium-large sellers who accept Paypal and sell largely new, overstock merchandise on a repetitive basis. Most sales are expected to be via Buy-it-Now or Best offer sale. The guy selling the pristine, original Adamas for $200 will be on Craigslist, not Fleabay. |
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Location: closely held secret | That's what Donohoe wants. We'll see what the stockholders (if there are any left) think of the results. Sellers are leaving in large numbers because of the new rules and fee hikes - which is what he was trying to accomplish. Trouble is, the sellers are who pay the bills, and without them, you got no buyers.
Lots of competition coming up, too... eCrater, Bonanzle, eBid for example. eCrater and Bonanzle have no listing fees and minimal final fees. And they actually let you take something besides PooPal as a payment! |
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| I've contacted "paypal-only" ebay sellers beforehand and they say postal money orders are ok, go ahead and bid anyway.. :)
I've won auctions with my first bid and they end the auctions early.
Go figure... |
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Location: big island | ubid has been around for several years and i purchased many items, mostly electronics/computer gear, through them when i was in the art gallery business. |
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Location: Indiana, USA | Originally posted by kotadawg:
Originally posted by stephent28:
You NEVER lose a bid because of a sniper. The sniper is ALWAYS willing to pay a higher price than you. That's why their bid wins. To me the purpose of sniping is to keep the bid lower. If I don't put my bid in until the last second, other bidders don't have time to raise their bids if they are willing to pay more. I put in my highest bid when I snipe. I've won some and lost some, but I have never bid more just to win the auction. |
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Location: closely held secret | Yes, Steve, that's the way the game is played. If the buyer contacts the seller and asks about checks or MO's, the seller can accept them as payment.
But, and this is a BIG but, sellers are now forbidden from soliciting any form of payment other than CC (if you have a merchant account) or poopal in their listings. Cause, you see, they didn't like seeing all that potential income frittered away (since they own poopal). They are also pushing very hard on the sellers to offer free shipping, because final fees aren't applied to shipping & handling charges. More lost income for them, boohoo. There's even been a 'glitch' going on (for like 2 months now) where the free shipping icon mysteriously appears on listings that don't have free shipping. Try explaining that to someone who has hit the BIN only to find out there are shipping charges. Guess who takes the heat for that?
Not to get political, but ebay seems to have the same mentality as government.
They think simply raising fees (taxes) they will get more money. Even making a big deal out of their lowered listing fees (while raising the finals 40%). What really happens is sellers either raise their prices (fewer sales) or leave (fewer sales). Ebay (government) doesn't get the idea that if you make the environment friendlier (reasonable fee structure) for the seller (tax payer) there is actually more money changing hands and ebay (government) realizes increased revenues.
If they don't start treating the sellers, their bread & butter, as partners instead of employees then as Mitz said, all they'll have left are the big box sellers (buy.com, target).
When the buyers start going elsewhere (as they're starting to now) ebay's stock won't be worth spoo. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | While many people left eBay for one reason or another, it really doesn't hurt eBay. Less people buying and selling means less overhead, so they just layoff a few 1000 people and they still make the same amount on the bottom line.
The Reality is there is no other place to go. There just isn't. I've looked, and I've tried.
To keep this on topic... Here's an example..
The search.. "Ovation Guitar"
The results..
eCrater = 0
bonanzle = 1
Shop Goodwill = 1
uBid = 0
eBid = 0
weBidz = 0
eBay...... = 523 !!!
The only thing that comes even close is Craiglist which if you are buying or selling a bauble or two is fine. Great for bargain shopping, great to unload that larger item locally. I can't imagine the time and effort it would take to do on craigslist what we do in our eBay store now.
So until someone builds a viable better mousetrap, eBay it is.
For what it's worth... Shopping for NEW items, I find using Google search to be the best, going directly to online stores rather than dealing with any auction style site. FOlks like TIger Direct for computer stuff, Amazon.com, and MemoryOutlet, Depot etc..., Zales, JC Penny, Sears, Walmart.. etc...
Just because it's a big box overstock auction site, doesn't mean it's the best price you can get. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | To continue on Wabbit's point... If all eBarf wants is 'big-box' sellers, I can just as easily go to the Real big-box guy's website and probably get a better deal. The recent Ovation Sales are a good example. If for the same price I can go to an online Store and get free return shipping for something that ain't right, why would I deal with (name your eBarf seller here)?
Raising fees is like raising cigarette taxes...
You raise your fees, people quit...
You raise them again, more people quit...
You end-up with less money in the end.
edit-- Miles said what I said... Only quicker and more concisely... I gotta type faster... :rolleyes: |
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Location: closely held secret | All your points are true, Miles... for now. But there's a LOT of people out there working on mousetraps, and right now ebay has it's head in one. You know as well as I do, the fees are approaching confiscatory, and with the new paypal only rules it only gets worse. The small sellers are leaving, and eventually the buyers will figure it out. |
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I put in my highest bid when I snipe. I've won some and lost some, but I have never bid more just to win the auction. That's the key. Let's say what I wanted was $100 new. To get a used one away from the snipers I'd have to commit about $70. I'm not gonna do that. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Why don't one of you Portland guys quit bitchin about ebay for awhile and go over to Craigslist and buy the Legend for $170 before I do? |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | MIB sez--- "Why don't one of you Portland guys quit bitchin about ebay for awhile and go over to Craigslist and buy the Legend for $170 before I do?"
It's in Vancouver, I don't have a car, it don't have any electronics, and I've already got one. |
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Location: closely held secret | Don't need it and don't have room for it. |
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Location: Portland, OR | huh? |
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| Ebay/Government always want to have it both ways, so they shoot themselves in the foot, then charge their customers for the hospital bill... :)
They might control the sellers initiative, but they can't control the buyers initiative...
That's an excellent comparison with the government, except while ebay can just layoff employees, the government just raises taxes (prints more money :rolleyes: ) and hires more employees... |
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Location: closely held secret | Well, of course... the rules don't apply to them... |
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Location: Omaha, NE | Originally posted by stephent28:
You NEVER lose a bid because of a sniper. The sniper is ALWAYS willing to pay a higher price than you. That's why their bid wins. Exactly right.
But I still think its a flaw in the eBay system, that actually works against the sellers' interests.
I think they should modify their auctions so that they won't end until the most recent bid is at least 60 seconds old. That way, a last second snipe has the effect of extending the auction for one minute, giving other buyers a chance to respond with higher bids. Essentially, the proxy auction that eBay normally runs transforms into a live auction at the end.
Why not? |
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Location: closely held secret | Because ebay doesn't care about the sellers. |
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Location: Central Massachusetts | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
Why don't one of you Portland guys quit bitchin about ebay for awhile and go over to Craigslist and buy the Legend for $170 before I do? Empty guitar fund |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Originally posted by Omaha:
giving other buyers a chance to respond with higher bids
Why not? If interested, the bidder should have bid his max to begin with and then he wouldn't have to worry about being sniped. Allowing him extra time just drives up the price for the true winner.
I get tired of seeing posts where the loser whines that they lost by "10 dollars". Come on guys.....get a clue. You didn't lose by 10 dollars you got "OUTBID" by 10 dollars. If you had bid $100 more you still might have lost by $10.
A loss is a loss. While I do use a snipe program bottom line is if I don't bid enough to win the snipe is useless. I plug in my maximum and walk away and check my email later. Works great at removing the emotions from the bid. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Well put Stephen! |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Why thank you Bradley.
It is true that sometimes great minds think alike! |
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| Omaha, excellent point.. 'proxy auction' verses 'live auction'. I went to live auctions when I was a kid. It wasn't over until it was over..
Going once, going twice, Sold!... but then again, there weren't any shills or snipers. You had to basically put up or shut up... |
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Location: Orlando, FL | I got tired of getting sniped a long time ago. If there is something I want on eBay I use BIN or snipe it for the most I am willing to pay.
If I lose, oh well, somebody else was willing to pay more than me. But at least I don't get caught up in a bidding war during the last 60 seconds and pay more than I wanted to and regret it later. |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by Omaha:
I think they should modify their auctions so that they won't end until the most recent bid is at least 60 seconds old. That way, a last second snipe has the effect of extending the auction for one minute, giving other buyers a chance to respond with higher bids. Essentially, the proxy auction that eBay normally runs transforms into a live auction at the end.
Why not? As a seller, it sounds like a good idea leading to higher final prices. But as a seller, I'm afraid what would happen is there would be a sudden upsurge of NPB's (non-paying bidders) who got caught up in the frenzy. Sellers are already dealing with this because of the new meaningless feedback system. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Originally posted by The Wabbit Formerly Known As Waskel:
Don't need it and don't have room for it. Like that's stopped any of the rest of us . . . |
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Location: closely held secret | Point taken... |
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Location: NJ | i can go on for days on this topic......... |
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| Al, OK, so just give us some highlights then... ;) |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | If you want to read it all, and I do mean ALL, visit the ebay Discussion forums. It's under the "Community" link in the upper right of the eBay pages when you're logged in. Then click DIscussion BOards and pick.. Soapbox or How to Grow and Ebay business. There are single threads that have over 12,000 to 14,000 replies on some of the hotter topics.
Enjoy |
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Location: closely held secret | Yup. |
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Location: Omaha, NE | Originally posted by The Wabbit Formerly Known As Waskel:
Originally posted by Omaha:
I think they should modify their auctions so that they won't end until the most recent bid is at least 60 seconds old. That way, a last second snipe has the effect of extending the auction for one minute, giving other buyers a chance to respond with higher bids. Essentially, the proxy auction that eBay normally runs transforms into a live auction at the end.
Why not? As a seller, it sounds like a good idea leading to higher final prices. But as a seller, I'm afraid what would happen is there would be a sudden upsurge of NPB's (non-paying bidders) who got caught up in the frenzy. Sellers are already dealing with this because of the new meaningless feedback system.
A number of years ago, I was CIO of an internet startup that was built around on-line auctions of wholesale equipment. As such, I spent a lot of time studying various auction systems and methodologies. Really fascinating stuff actually.
I came away thinking that eBay's setup was "so so". Could be better, could be a lot worse. By and large it works, but mainly they continue to live off the simple fact that they achieved critical mass of buyers and sellers before anyone else. Once they got there, they effectively sealed off the market.
But I think the market is opening back up. There is going to be room for a competitor to come in and start eating their lunch. But that is going to take time and money. eBay is not going away quietly.
Anyway, the change I proposed above, where the proxy auction is extended until 60 seconds beyond the most recent bid, is a simple change that would eliminate a huge amount of buyer frustration, and generate better sales prices for sellers. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | "I came away thinking that eBay's setup was "so so". Could be better, could be a lot worse. By and large it works, but mainly they continue to live off the simple fact that they achieved critical mass of buyers and sellers before anyone else. Once they got there, they effectively sealed off the market."
- In a nut shell
"But I think the market is opening back up. There is going to be room for a competitor to come in and start eating their lunch. But that is going to take time and money. eBay is not going away quietly."
- That last bit.. the " But that is going to take time and money. eBay is not going away quietly."
is the real hurdle for any competition.
Someone would have to come up with a model that was arguably better... and that's probably not that difficult, but they would also have to roll it out in a way that eBay didn't notice. That part just isn't possible. As soon as any competition would hit the net, eBay would just make an adjustment of whatever, for however long it would take to ensure the competition just didn't succeed.
Amazon.com has the closest "better mousetrap." They were established, they already have the technology, and they have several features that eBay doesn't.
- They have "store fronts" a little better than eBay stores in visibility.
- They can sell your product for you if you want.
- They had/have a central payment system where you could can add products from several vendors into your cart and pay once. Amazon takes care of getting the money to the right people.
- They provide warehouse services
- They provide the ability to see both used and new version of the same item and the price range.
- They not only have seller feedback, but product reviews.
- They accept all forms of online payment.
Read this . Check out the timeline and the acquisitions sections. Looks like the formula to squash ebay doesn't it. An established company with 14.8 billion in revenue (2007), $476 million net and 17,000 employees.
In 1999 Amazon started to get into the Auction game, and by 2001 (and ever since) have been irrelevant as an auction site.
As stated above, "But that (squashing eBay) is going to take time and money. eBay is not going away quietly."
FWIW eBay is only about 8.5 billion in revenue and $348 million net with 15,000+ employees. You'd think someone like Amazon could have them for an afternoon snack. The wiki for eBay here is quite the yawnfest compared to Amazon, but there you have it. "What ever it is, you can get it (or sell it worldwide) on eBay" with a few exceptions.
But.. If you want an Adamas guitar, you need to contact Alpep !!!!! That's all I'm say'n. |
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Location: Utah | Sounds like I blew my good will with swmbo by buying the Hamer instead of an A. This ominous talk is getting me worried. |
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The Bay is Only For the Pros Anymore