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Location: Dayton, Ohio | so guys and gals...
trying to decide on elite t shallow or mid...
i'm a small female, mostly plugged in, need good sound live and recorded, and always need comfort...
whaddya think?? |
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Location: Upper Left USA | '05' Collector |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Absolutely...meets all your needs perfectly! |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Hard to argue with the above. So, I won't. (plus, if you ever do wanna play unplugged...) |
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Location: Vermont USA | I have an Elite shallow bowl and it does it all for me.
Paul |
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Location: Midland, MI | My only acoustic is my Elite super shallow and I have zero complaints about it...acoustically or plugged in. When I play 'traditional' box guitars, they feel mighty uncomfortable, though. |
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Location: Anchorage, Alaska | I have both a supper shallow bowl Balladeer and a contour bowl 2005 Collectors. Both of mine are great guitars either plugged or unplugged but... If had to choose just one, it would take about 1/2 a second to choose the 2005 collectors with the contour bowl. No question... |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Sorry to pile on ... 05 Collector in a heart beat. I am not a fan of shallow bowls. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Persephone,
I know in another thread you mentioned that money was tight. Have you considered getting credit with an online store like Music123.com? They have no interest for 12 months and you can certainly take longer than that to pay.....I think as low as $39/month
That way you could grab a nice guitar like the '05 and know you have something that you will never outgrow and that can last you a lifetime. |
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Location: SoCal | Just had my wife check out the '05 Collector's - she is 5' 1". Please realize that she feels the parlor is the perfect size.
Her comment on the '05 is "it is too big"
Advice is to check out the shallow bowl first. Has decent acoustic sound, good a/e. But, most important for you would be the playing position. |
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Location: Carle Place, NY | Persephone:
There are many here who are well intentioned in their advice but fail to appreciate the reality of having limited resources. The '05 Collectors is a great guitar but it is more than double the price of an Elite T and therefore perhaps not something that you can afford.
If you primarily play plugged-in, go for the 1878 T super shallow bowl.
For some reviews see:
http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data4/Ovation/1868-Elite-T-01... |
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Location: SoCal | There are several 97 Collectors on ebay. Less expensive than an 05 and easier for somebody 5'1".
Here's an Ovation parlor guitar based upon the 97 Collecotrs. A very nice instrument.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33029&item=7... |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Wasn't aware of price limitations. Hey, we LOVE shopping with other peoples money around here. So, if the question is 1) given elite-T is the guitar would I recommend shallow or mid = answer is mid as long as it's comfortable for you. You need to try it. 2) are there possibly other guitars in the same price range that should also be considered? Yes, I would definately check out the Balladeer-LX. That's a very, very nice guitar for the money. Dave |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Hard to argue with the above, so I won't |
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Location: Germantown, MD | Hey, Persephone,
I've got a shallow bowl that consistently amazes people. They're probably right: a shallow bowl, played unplugged, shouldn't be able to project such a strong, full, balanced sound throughout its range. Of coure, bumblebees shouldn't be able to fly, either. I haven't had a lot of need to plug the beast in, but my guess is that I'd be equally satisfied with the sound if I did.
Peace,
John |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Check out 4Fingers offering as well! |
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Location: Paris/France | Persephone,
As you can see, there's a lot of opinions!!
And each one is honest and acceptable.
The best way to make your own opinion is to go to the next shop from your door and try as much Ovation as possible (mid & shallow).
I'm sure you can find the Good one for your own comfort.
You just can be sure about one thing, mid or shallow, it's an Ovation!! A great guitar with a great sound!!!
Jérôme
;) |
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| Have to agree with someone earlier about the recommendations of the 05 collector and the contrasting price point of the elite T. I have a shallow bowl and a mid-bowl and the shallow bowl is as comfortable for me as any guitar. Between my 2 guitars, there is no doubt that the mid-bowl has better acoustic unplugged sound; however, the shallow bowl gets played more due to the comfort level (I can play it sitting up, leaning back, or whatever and it is comfortable.
xx Isn't Persephone the one who was sniffing the flower and was dragged into the underworld by Pluto (Or am I mixing Greek and Roman names?) looking for a wife? She is the reason for the seasons, I believe? If I have the wrong story, I'll sure regret writing this. |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Persephone, I think the Elite T shallow-bowl is probably better for you. I am NOT a shallow-bowl person myself(I don't own one), but given your described playing style and needs, a shallow-bowl would appear to best meet them.
Roger |
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| persephone, shallow bowl ok in your case.
try it out at your local store.
try the big baby taylor too, u should like its size & acoustic sound. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | BINGO - Forgot about Taylor Big Baby. My son plays that guitar and it is in-freakin-cedible. I love it. For $400. it's an absolute steal. You'd need to put in a pickup and a good fishman (or similar) will run you $150. But for under $600. you'd have yourself one awesome guitar. Don't put down the idea of a Taylor until you've tried it. Dave |
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Location: SoCal | Dave, guess we all agree to disagree...looked at one this last weekend. Seen and played some very nice Taylors but none of the "babies" are coming home. |
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Location: Tennessee | Well, since everybody's got an opinion, I'll throw in my two cents ...
For plugged in and recording, small body, excellent feel ... I'd seriously look at an EA68 Viper. Feels and handles like a small body electric, sounds as good acoustically as any Ovation plugged in. The more I play mine, the more it's beoming one I swear will always be around. |
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Location: Scotland | As I understand it the Shallow bowl is history in current Ovation production. It would be great if the shallow/mid/deep debate on the OFC was history also, because frankly it bores me shitless. If you need opinions on the subject check "The Vault" bearing in mind that opinions are like assholes....etc. |
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Location: Fayetteville, NC | Point well taken Paul. However, The post was started by a new member asking an opinion. She had only made her 2nd post with this topic. Ipersonally would recomend a mid depth bowl for her anyway. There's plenty out there, and the sound is much better acoustically than a shallow bowl. You have the fringe benifit of plugging in also. |
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Location: Scotland | This is where it all falls down. With the exception of the SS, Bowl depth doesn't mean shit. I have deep bowls, mids, extra deep early Adamas & they all sound good. They are all different but one isn't "better" than the other. BUT....I also have a super-shallow MOB set up for slide. This cheap imported, plywood-topped piece of crap destroys my deep-bowl '72 Legend, tonally.
The bottom line is, If you get off on the guitar buy it, and screw the bowl-depth facists. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Since the volcano's about to erupt with opinions, here's mine. No more or less valid than anyone elses, I might add !!!. To my frigged up stupid ears shallow bowls suck. They sound bad, look bad and even feel bad to hold, like not even really a guitar - just a soundboard and neck. If shallows are so great then why is the factory phasing them out - because they suck and nobody wants them, that's why! OK flame me right here, nobody really cares what I say (except maybe disignzilla and his 1537, oh yeah baby). It's been a shitty week, sales forecast is limp, my boss is up me like pitbull on a porkchop, and my right hand guy in europe is in hospital with a heart attack. Oh yeah, taxes are due in less than a month and my wife wants to know what all the visa charges to "Lost Art" are all about. Am I buying a friggin' Picasso or something? We've all got our problems, right? For under 5 hundie I'd still buy the Taylor. Dave |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | This has been debated before, however, I have an opinion, for your satisfaction you should buy a ...
Anyway, is Dayton like Hades, or is it just a name? |
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| though i own mostly adamas 1 & 2, high-end ovation, i do own a few SS. the newer models seem to be good. my 2003/4 1867 & 1868 do offer tight & strong mid-bass. sometimes i find my 1537 & adamas 1/2 too bass heavy.
btw, dave is one of the most honest & outspoken members!!!! yes, the BIG baby taylor (BIG, not just regular baby)is a steal for under $400. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Quit being nice, it'll go to my head. Actually I did own a 1868 and the mid-bass was exactly that - nice and tight. It just seemed like the top wanted to move more air than the body cavity could handle. Probably had a lot to due with my technique (strum ... look at fingers on L hand ... move to next position ... strum again ...) |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Dave,
It's good to let the strings rest between strums. |
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Location: SoCal | As our new member referred to recording and performing, really don't feel that the bowl size is a factor. Les Paul made a solid piece of 2x4 sound good.
For a young player or a woman under about 5' 4", the depth of the bowl or box is important, as is the width of the neck. I went through several guitars, including a shallow bowl, before we tried the parlor. Maybe a better guitar player can offset the size of a guitar. Even if she was a skilled guitarist, doubt if my wife would be comfortable with the new bowl or a deep bowl.
I don't know but would project that the weight of the guitar, and the neck itself, would also be a factor. |
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Location: East Tennessee | Isn't a rest one of those wiggley looking things occasionally found on sheet music?
(Thought I add a little "jocularity" to the post)
I have a deep bowl elite 12 string and a Celebrity super shallow bowl Nylon String. To compare them is like comparing apples to oranges. Both are good but different. Depending on my mood, and the type of song I'm playing, I choose the one I feel is best. That doesn't make one always better. As others have said Go to your local Guitar store and find what's right for YOU. :cool: |
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Location: Midland, MI | I just wanted to say that I really like the name Persephone. Well, when it's properly pronounced. I wonder how many people even know the story of Persephone, though. ;) |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Persephone:
Pronounced, U-Kah-lay- LEE |
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Location: Midland, MI | Hrmph. You're pronouncing it wrong. ;) |
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Location: Snellville, GA | Quote from persephone from another thread today:
"i think i like this guitar, but i don't really know that much. i'm going to start recording and playing out more, so i need to get my ovation! but i'm also poor and can't afford the big bucks ones. how does a super shallow bowl sound? can someone look at this and tell me? the auction is up in 2 hrs! it's the ovation usa 6868 elite acoustic electric cherryburst."
My 2 cents:
She wants an ovation pretty quick, she wants an ovation relatively low cost, she wants an ovation
that fits her, she wants an ovation she can perform with. All of this ads up to an important decision for her that can't be decided by any of us. She is going to have to try one on to see if it fits whatever she is looking for.
But what the hell do I know? |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Hey Tony Calman - Did you ever stop and think that it may be cheaper to just get a bigger wife ????
PS - Mailed the bass book to you yesterday.
Dave |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | How about one of the Applause AA-12 half size or 3/4 size.
I played one at the store yesterday and was impressed by the sound coming out of the 1/2 size. For around $175 I may pick one up just to have lying around.
Hmmmm, would ovation build me a 1/2 size adamas? |
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Location: Upper Left USA | I have one of the AA12's. It is a good learner for smaller hands and great for long road trips (when you are not driving).
If either of you want to try it out - let me know! |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | A road guitar....that AA12 might just fit the bill. I have often thought it would be nice to have a guitar in the car with me when I have an hour or so between sales calls.
Mike, how well do you think it would hold up to summer heat...100+ in a locked car? |
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Location: Carle Place, NY | Persephone:
The Taylor Big Baby is a great acoustic guitar for the money, but if you want to play through an amp an Ovation is the way to go. It will cost a lot more than $150 to electrify a Big Baby because you will need not just a pick-up but also a pre-amp. Even then the electronics won't equal what's in an Elite T. The Elite has a on-board tuner also.
As for playing comfort, there's not much out there that's more comfortable than a shallow bowl. I disagree that a parlor size guitar is an option for you. It's too small. The 3/4 size Applause is acoustic only, sounds like crap and is not a guitar anyone would want to perform with.
I still recommend the 1878 T. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | "Mike, how well do you think it would hold up to summer heat...100+ in a locked car?"
As good as any family Dog!
In a Gig Bag down on the floor without direct sun it does just fine! It doesn't have a huge top surface and it is a laminate.
It is my roadtrip Backpacking guitar. |
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Location: Monroe, Ohio (Cincinnati) | Hi Persephone
For about 6 months I have been playing a SS Balladeer 1861 that I acquired on ebay for $310. I play it plugged in mostly with our Praise Band. My lead guitar player loves to get his hands on it whenever he can. He loves the neck, the sound, and the light slender body.
BTW his main acoustic guitar is a 30+ yr old Martin.
I have to say that it does sound a little thin to me when I play it myself acoustically. But when my lead player plays it unplugged and I am across the room facing him I love the way it sounds. I guess most of the sound projects forward so the player doesn't get the full effect.
If you look at one of the recent polls, many of the members here only play for themselves and their personal enjoyment. This may explain why some don't like the SS bowl sound, because they are playing themselves and not hearing the majority of the projected sound.
When I play for myself unplugged. I favor the sound of my all wood Seagull S6, but I really miss the neck on my Balladeer so I am playing it more and more and leaving the S6 in the case more and more.
The 1861 Balladeer sounds so good straight through the PA system that I even quit using my Chorus pedal. Just can't beat it through the PA for live sound and for comfort live.
I believe my bigger issue is the neck shape. The newer guitars have a more slender neck that is more like an electric, but for comfort the V neck is really nice.
I plan to get a 2005 Collectors some day, but for playing live amplified, I believe I would probably stick to the shallow bowl.
Just another opinion.
and even though it sound a little thin to the person playing, when |
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Location: Dayton, Ohio | wow! thank you all for your assholes! uh, i mean opinions...
so much to respond to... persephone is goddess of the underworld, kidnapped by hades, her mother (goddess demeter) was so heartbroken that the earth got cold and everything died. when persephone comes back to her mother in the spring, she's happy and things start growing again...
mark graffice: are you going to the factory tour in june, and would you be driving? i'm in dayton and want to go but need a way there...
as for my final decision, i went with a brand new shallow bowl elite t on ebay for $522. my dad (bauerhillboy) found it on there for me. i've played shallow bowls and love the way they feel. i'll pretty much always be plugged in and comfort is so important for me. and it's relatively affordable. and it's a usa ovation. i know i could afford a celebrity or applause, but after going on the tour last year, i knew i wanted a usa ovation.
last year i could barely play guitar, and this year i want to show up at the fan club tour with my new ovation and my cd and rock out at the open jam!
btw, i expect you all to support your fellow ovation fans/players and buy my cd when i finish it!!
i really do appreciate everyone's input!
p |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | wow! thank you all for your assholes! uh, i mean opinions... Something tells me you are going to fit right in with this group. |
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Location: Isle of Man, UK | Hi Persephone
Glad that the as.... wait a mo, I'll start again...
Glad that the guitar you chose fits - enjoy the recording!
Just for the record, my (recently-ex I'm afraid) girlfriend used to tinkle around with one of my mid-bowls to accompany me, and she found a little awkward, with a couple of things getting in the way (I'm really trying hard not to say the obvious here, but that's what I'm referring to...)
She had no problem with a shallow bowl, though.
Just to note, she's about 5'8", played sitting down, and "average" all over (the point being that the above 'obstacles' aren't overly big).
That was a hard post to type whilst trying not to offend anyone...
JB |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | JB,
You had me on the floor.
Very tactful of you not to say, "boobs". |
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Location: Fayetteville, NC | Boobs??!! Did someone say Boobs??Where??!! :eek: |
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Location: Dayton, Ohio | hey guys, check out my new topic. it's easy to find... |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | As I mentioned earlier....gonna fit right in! |
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Location: Queens, NY | Although my personal preference is a mid-depth bowl (I figure that way I'll be half right no matter what), I think shallow bowls have their purpose. If you're used to playing an electric and/or play mostly plugged in, a shallow bowl might be the way to go.
I think it would be a mistake for Ovation to do away with USA made shallow bowls entirely. |
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Location: Dayton, Ohio | here's the guitar that i got if anyone's interested:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7308959330 |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Very nice! That should get a few looks on stage. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Pass. |
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Location: Snellville, GA | Saw that one at the local GC over the weekend. Very nice. |
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Location: SoCal | I've played those before. Good unplugged sound, great on stage. And you got it for a very good price. Congratulations. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Jeff,
Your just spoiled by the great collection you have. ;) Try to be more understanding of those less fortunate that yourself. Take me for instance....I really want a 1538, a baritone 12, etc., etc. :p |
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Location: NW NJ | Very nice axe Persephone. I had one in gray (read pewter) and it is a wonderful instrument. Great sound unplugged for a shallow bowl and the plugged in sound is unbelievable. I had the chance to pick up an 1868LX-5 from Victor Litz on fleabay a couple of months ago which gives me a little bigger unplugged sound thanks to the LX top and bowl and those gorgeoug inlaid epaulets - had to sell the 1868T to pay for it. That being said, I loved the T in the shallow bowl - you will too! :p |
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Location: Dayton, Ohio | my baby came today!! she's so beautiful and we're a perfect fit! i had a short band practice before work and could hardly contain myself. she looks, feels and sounds so amazing. glad i went with the shallow bowl. everything about it is perfect! and it makes me sound like a much better player. :) she rests perfectly on my hip, slightly turned up. fits nicely against my body when i sit. ovations really are the guitars for women. i wonder if they need a spokeswoman for that... |
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Location: Orange County, California | Very Very Nice!!! Let us know where we can hear you play it ok ? |
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shallow v. mid bowl