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Location: SoCal | Had the unique opportunity to play 2 great Ovations and compare them with a great Martin. Met a friend yesterday. He's the one I helped into an 87 Collectors. At his anniversary last year, I helped his wife buy, on ebay, an 87 Collectors. At the same time his wife gave him the O, she also spent about $7k (maybe more) and got him a signed, Eric Clapton 000-28. I played it next to his 87 Collectors and my 1537. Honestly, the Martin's a beautiful instrument, worth maybe $2500. Great sound. Great to look at. Great to sniff at the soundhole. Would I trade my 1537 for it. Nope. I guess I just like the more robust sound of my 1537. What's interesting is that the attorney's playing and loving the Ovation and the Martin stays in it's case, only coming out once in a while. He also has a 1960's D-28, worth a ton. The Ovation gets played. And he rarely plugs in. It's the acoustic sound. |
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| I for one am not surprised. I've spent the last 20 years in a world where people sell their kids to get a Benedetto/D'Aquisto/D'Angelico etc., etc.
I've never played a guitar costing more than $5000 that I thought was worth it. Some of them are prettier/rarer/wear more gold than P. Diddy, but to play and listen to they are no better than a good O. I personally figure you are a total twat if you figure that you are getting something extra in the music department for your money. Have these people never read the story of The Emperor's New Suit? |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Does not surprise me. But it sounds like a set-up. The 000-28's are not great examples of Martins sound, if you ask me. Comfortable as hell to play, but they really lack the tonal balance (I've got a 000-18, same opinion). The 87 Collector and the 1537 are two of Ovations best sounding guitars. Blah, blah, blah some Ovations sound good some sound like crap. Some Martins sound good, some sound like crap, etc. etc. etc. No one builder is unilaterally better than the other in my opinion. Although I said I didn't care for the 000-28 sound, I must admit that this 12-fret, wideneck, slothead 000-28 on ebay has me more than a little interested. Dave
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33028&item=7... |
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Location: Waurika OK | Isn't that out in Nils neck of the woods? |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | I played one of these vintage series about a month ago. One of the best sounding Martins I have ever played. I think the one I played, was selling for about $2900 new.
This one looks like a nice guitar at a good price. |
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Location: NW Ohio | I have six guitars, four Ovations and two Martins.Each one is different,and has its own voice. The Martins win hands down on smell though.The D28 is intoxicating! |
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Location: SoCal | It's always important to evaluate each individual guitar and not make generalizations. I've played Martins that knocked my socks off and some very expensive ones that just sucked. Same with Ovations. |
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Location: SoCal | I agree but has anyone noticed how important it is to play the "box" before buying? Seems that if you have the chance to play several of the same model, you will find one that is better?
Maybe I'm wrong but I haven't found a U.S. Ovation I didn't like. Which, other than damage, has given me a lot more confidence in O's and A's when buying before I can play. Course, with the small selection at local guitar stores, hard to find the O's and A's to play first.
Feel a lot more confident buying from OFC members or eBay when buying an O or A. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Very true. The consistency of sound seems to be a lot more prevalent in Ovations than most of the other brands. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Just had a visitor here today who plays a Martin(D-28). Her words when she heard the 1537, "Wow, that sounds incredible."
(I would like to believe she was commenting on my playing, but alas....) |
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Location: So. Cal. | As Tony pointed out, playing several of the same model can make a huge difference sometimes. When I bought my 87 collectors back then, the guy at GC was nice enough to pull out all five of them and the one I picked (serial #555) was distinctively better than the other four.
On a different note, the 000-28EC I have is best described as "sweet". Very well balanced and dark (not twangy). Nothing but fingerstyle heaven. The custom M-42 (as StandingO know) is out of this world though. |
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Location: NW Ohio | I agree. I will buy an Ovation without playing it first because you usually know what to expect. I would never buy a Martin unplayed because they vary so much from one to another in the same model. The same is true of Gibson,Collins, Santa Cruz,you name it in an all wood guitar. |
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Location: East Tennessee | Islander2 I will buy an Ovation without playing it first because you usually know what to expect. I would never buy a Martin unplayed because they vary so much from one to another in the same model. The same is true of Gibson,Collins, Santa Cruz,you name it in an all wood guitar.
I have 2 Ovations I ordered and purchased without playing.
I have 2 Martins I purchased after playing first.
I have played more Ovations I like Than Martins,(percentage wise)
Ovation has more bang for the buck. Hands Down. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | As I shared with someone on email, in my opinion on a scale of 1 to 10, Ovations go from 7 to 9.5 with tremendous consistency within a model. Great manufacturing repeatability no doubt due to the bowl and neck attachment. You know what to expect from an Ovation. Martin goes from 4 to 9.9. Yes there are some stinkers. But there is also that upper crust form 9.5 to 9.9 that is sweet heaven you'll only get from a Martin. Takes some looking, but man when you find it... Michael's M-42 is one of those. I've heard others. My D18VS 12 fret slothead is right up there as well.
Somebody posted that they never played a USA Ovation that they didn't like. I love Ovations, it's my passion. But I have definately heard and owned a few that didn't do anything for me. Never heard a decent VT braced Ovation, and some of the Elite models (even the Book Elite), leave me rather unimpressed sonically.
You just can't make generalizations about something like guitars. There are so many variables. Of course this is the OFC, emphesis on O, so naturally most of us think anything Ovation puts their name on is god-like. And all other brands are shit. That's only natural. Same happens on the other boards as well. |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | I also have 4 martins currently and a boatload of Ovations.Although i enjoy some of my Ovations and are good guitars,there is something to a good wood guitar that you just cant beat.My Martin D42S 12 fret slothead is simply amazing.The martin 15 series guitars are the best bang for the buck.The D15S and 00015S for around 800 bucks new are much better than the new LX series by Ovation.Ive played several of both brands and in my opinion the 15 series are great guitars. |
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Location: Hastings, Michigan | Each guitar brings out a part of my personaly. My 1980 Martin D-35 'makes' me an anamal, pounding out sound that makes time fly-or picking out that Martin bass line that (almost)keep up with the chord. My Martin D-45 Sunburst, yes cost a boatload of money, and no, I don't get it out as much as my other guitars; but AHHH! I feel close to God when I gently play that one.
And yes, I agree with Standingovation about ovation quality and reliability. And they, unlike the Martins, are solid enough to take out to the campfire. |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Drew, how about a pic of the D45 burst.I gotta see that.dont ever see those in burst ..samova@aol.com |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | I've definitely played some new Ovations that were stinkers. Same with Martins, too. I bought a 000-16RGT a month ago that was hands down better than the 000-18 next to it.
I agree with Sam, the 15 series Martins are great. Good luck finding them, they sell quickly.
Roger |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | I lifted the folloiwng from
Music and Technology
This guy is a recording engineer
As far as acoustic guitars go, I have had the opportunity to work with many of the top session players here in the Seattle area, and they can definitely make just about any guitar sound good. The guy I worked with a lot would always bring three or four really nice acoustics along with him and let me choose which one I thought sounded best for the particular. He had (I believe) a Guild, Martin, Takamine, and Taylor (can't remember the model numbers). For the pop stuff I was doing, I always liked the sound of his Taylor the best and usually went with that, although I picked the Guild or Martin for some other tunes. Another acoustic singer/songwriter friend of mine had an awesome sounding Takamine as well that really worked great for her. I also always had a negative image of the Ovation guitars, and never liked to record them.... I thought they worked better in live situations and would never consider using them in a studio, until I was working on a big album project with Jill Cohn, and her guitar player had a really nice, higher end Ovation (I didn't know there was such a thing) that actually sounded great in the studio. We did some tracks at the big studio as well as in my project studio, and it really suprised me at how well it sounded in both situations, even on songs where the acoustic guitar was pretty much the only instrument. Of course, he is an excellent guitar player as well, and that helped a lot, but he also knew how to pick a great sounding instrument for him. That was kind of suprising since I had the generalized notion that Ovations simply did not record well (from my limited experience with the cheaper ones I guess). |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | It would be interesting to just lift this whole thread and put it on the Martin board. I'm sure would get some "interesting" feedback. Totally agree with Sam and Roger on the 15 series. Those guitars are just amazing. Maybe the best acoustic sound available for under $1000. I know - everyone's panties are going to be in a bunch all saying, waah, waah, waah what about the Ovation LX guitars! You can't compare them. Just forget about it. The LX Legend and Elite are a different beast. No better, no worse. Lots of great attributes for the Ovations. They just lack the wooden sound that I and many others enjoy. I would LOVE to see Ovation put all the high tech shit they have perfected into building a wooden box guitar. Probably not politically acceptable, but they have some damn fine luthiers at Ovation. They build great tops, the best necks in the business, and their overall quality and attention to detail is amazing. Wouldn't it be interesting to see what they could come up with in an all wooden box guitar? Might just blow Martin, Taylor and the rest right out of the water! Dave |
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Location: NJ | I own a d-35 and a d-35 12s
both real nice guitars. I had them forever. I used to gig with the d 35 until I found Ovations and particularly Adamas guitars. I used an old dearmond pickup and a barcus berry and a dean markley. too much hassle too much of a drag.
most of the places I played that miced the guitar just used an sm 58 and that just would cause feedback. |
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Location: RI. That small State out East | Soon several will be playing the U681T...
This guitar will turn heads. Martin heads, and Ovation heads. I have had the fun of "shocking" several "wooden" lovers. If you think you can get a smile with a 1537... or 05 Collector...
I know, I know, ice cream...
This one will shock.
Woz
Martin : Yea, but it's not wood...
Adamas : I know, but hows the feel / sound...
Martin : Smile (as they play)... wow
One more thing... About the smell... I like empty cigar boxes. Nothing beats the smell. Not even a Martin. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | About the smell... I like empty cigar boxes. Nothing beats the smell. Not even a Martin. Not even a freshly lit cigar on the patio at sunset with the perfect drink of your choice in hand? That smells pretty damn good too! :D |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Originally posted by Woz:
Soon several will be playing the U681T...
One more thing... About the smell... I wanna play the U681T so bad, I can't hardly stand the wait.
Maybe Ovations should could come stock with those little pine tree air fresheners |
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Location: SoCal | RE: It would be interesting to just lift this whole thread and put it on the Martin board.
The difference with this board is that most of the posters have and love Martins, as well as O's & A's.
Sure, there can be some critical comments or light banter about other guitars - yet to see any malicious, deliberate misinformation, or flaming from the OFC members. Heck, some of us are biased but we also drive different models and makes of cars.
A little North Sea pipe tobacco from TinderBox can give the "woody" smell. Or, the diehard could always add some cedar chips... :D :p :D |
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Location: Snellville, GA | Are you kidding? Personally I love the smell of cured resin... |
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Location: Anchorage, Alaska | "Not even a freshly lit cigar on the patio at sunset with the perfect drink of your choice in hand? That smells pretty damn good too! "
One of the best smells in the world!!!!
Oh man don't get me started. It snowed almost a foot last night! We thought we were done with the white stuff! Looks like it will be a couple more weeks or so before we can comfortably sit on the patio and smoke a nice stogie. |
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Location: NJ | Next weekend, we've got our first gig booked at a local Rock&Roll CigarBar . . . .
Looking forward to it. |
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Location: Orange County, California | Originally posted by Jeff W.:
I lifted the folloiwng from
Music and Technology
This guy is a recording engineer
I also always had a negative image of the Ovation guitars, and never liked to record them.... I thought they worked better in live situations and would never consider using them in a studio |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Ovations shine in the live situation. They also shine in the studio, but you need to know what you are doing. I hear people tell me that Ovations always have that "jangle, thin" sound recorded. My response is that I have never recorded one that sounds like that. I guess I could say that box acoustics either have that muddy low-end tone recorded, of that nasal mid-range tone, but I haven't had those problems either.
As an example we are familiar with, the guy that recorded Kaki King's first CD knew what he was doing. |
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Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma | I've recently gotten rid of a D-18 and a D-28... I liked the sound on the D-18 and loved the sound on the D-28... My nephew got the D-18 and the D-28 went to my brother so I can play them whenever I want so I got my cake and get to eat it too... The reason I got rid of them?... Too much of a hassel keeping them from getting banged around.. With my O's I've got about 60% less surface area to worry about banging up... Also, as has been said before.."more bang for the buck"... Although I did just buy a Little Martin on a whim at a local store... From such a small travel guitar the sound was incredible... also at about $259 it is by far the least expensive Martin guitar you can buy... (Except for the backpacker which really isn't a guitar).. If I destroy the Little Martin it's easliy and cheaply replaced... There are tons of guitars to own and play but I now tend to only own guitars that I DO play... |
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Location: Orange County, California | Miles,
You have to know how true this is. Having worked in car audio for years, I built allot of subwoofer eclosures, and "knew" from a very young age that the parallel surfaces would allow standing waves and cancelation within the box, thus decresing effiency. Our "O's" suffer from no such loss. I'm even surprised as to the low frequency output of the super shallow's without the center sound-hole.... |
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Location: NC | This subject will never die but keeps coming to surface! I like Martin's but personally would not fork that kind of $$ into one. My "O" is much more pleasing to the eye and like one said earlier; less surface area to scratch! To each his own......and to own each would be great! |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I actually took some time this morning to do a search on "Ovation" over at the Martin board. NO, this was BEFORE work, so shut up Cliff.
Anyway, of course there was plenty of Ovation bashing. But I read one post that I think sums all of this up perfectly. Quote:
"You won't read much good about Ovations here. Has nothing to do with the fact that they are good or not good. It's just that this is the Martin forum and we are all very biased even though we would never come out and say that. If you want to read good things about Ovation go over to www.ovationfanclub.com where people really love them, just like we love our Martins."
I'd say that is pretty much right on the money. Exchange the words Ovation and Martin, and that most could have been written here. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | "Martin Season!" |
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Location: Orange County, California | I'm pretty sure that Ovation could produce a really nice flat-back all wooden guitar with little difficulty. It would play and sound as nice as any current Mar-Tay-Larv-a-hickey out there. I'm certain that even "given" the technology (reverse engineering allowed even) No one besides Ovation could produce as nice guitar using modern materials and manufacturing techniques. The learning curve for composites is steep and expensive. I'm not surprised that the O&A prototypes are "players" as well. |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Dave, i just read your earlier post a few posts back about why doesnt Ovation try an all wooden guitar.Well, thats what im attempting right now exept its not a roundback.The top is spruce with apaulettes,the sides are traditional rosewood.The neck will be carved slothead just like early slotheads.I have always wondered what it would sound like.I had posted some pics of the project but did not get much attention or exitement so i just add the pics of this ongoing project on the gallery now.I have also brought this project to the attention of Ovation.They are curious about how it turns out.I plan to let them see it and play it when its all done in about two to three more months.
One of the drawbacks to this wooden ovation project is,what if it sounds really,really good?Does it disprove 40 years of lyrachord technology and 40 years of marketing?I dont know if Ovation could build a wooden ovation or adamas.Can plastic and wood back co-exist within the same company?I know rainsong is building a graphite top guitar with mahogany back and sides.Now martin is building a graphite top guitar.Other guitar makers are trying different things so why couldnt ovation build a high end wooden guitar and go after taylor and martins traditional guitar market? I would love to see this happen.I would like to hear Bill's thoughts on an ovation wood guitar?Mine will be ready in about three months.. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | I thought we did this once already
(the order implies no preference)
Martin-Ovation
Mercedes-BMW
Ford-Chevy
Sunrise-Sunset
Dogshit-Taylor |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Sam, I also was not referring to a round back guitar. Build a wooden box! I am aware of your project and saw your photos. I'm extremely interested in the result. We OFC'ers "hate" the fact that wooden box players are not open minded enough to consider Ovation a serious guitar. Yet we same people are also not open minded about the prospects of change, even to the extreme of a wooden box Ovation. Interesting to hear that even the re-designed Contour Bowl of the 05 Collectors was not favored by some at Ovation. They didn't want to let go of the past. I say, bring it all on and build the best damn thing you can with it. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | I have a roundback, wooden guitar, based on the dimensional specs of a shallow bowl Adamas cutaway. Beautiful to look at, fun to pick, the sound unremarkakle. That is to say...not bad, not incredible, in that middle ground of average. But the one thing i must say for it...it is as loud as any full size (not jumbo) wood box guitar at 2/3rds their depth. |
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Location: Snellville, GA | Don't they already have a wooden box in the family called Takamine. Please don't change the Ovation style! |
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Location: NW Ohio | I find it interesting that here you can carry on a discussion on a brand that isn't the "favorite son" of the forum and not get mostly negative comments. It was suggested moving this entire thread over to the Martin forum. I'll bet that would light a fire that would make Chicago of decades ago look like a marshmellow roast! |
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin | As stated in another post, after visiting G.C. this weekend, my favorite guitars there were a D-15 and the 1777-LX Very sweet! It may have been the new strings but the Martin sure played and sounded nice. |
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Location: SoCal | I just want to point out that I've never said anything negative regarding Martins. I was just surprised when a $7k Martin didn't appeal to me as much as a 1537 and an 87 Collectors.
There are a lot of great guitars out there that aren't Ovations. Ovations just happen to be my preference.
As to Dogshits, I mean Taylors, they are good guitars but extremely overpriced. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Interestign readings on the M board. They consider Taylor "OK" for live work, but totally unacceptable acoustically. I do see a lot of people playing Taylor on stage. Are their electronics any good? I would still claim Ovation is the best plugged in guitar. Dave |
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Location: SoCal | I've never played a Taylor "plugged in" but have taken some time to tour the "expression system" on the Taylor site. Looks to me as a step backwards to when Ovation had the stacked knobs. Website spends a fair amount of time explaining interface with the amp, how to set a tuner inline, etc. Didn't see any mention of XLR.
Wasn't there such a high volume of complaints from Taylor users that they shut down the forum?
Looked to me like the OP-24 was a better choice and that is dated. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | The Ovation still has the best plugged in sound to my ears. Taks are OK but a little to thin (bright). A combination of Tak and O on stage is nice. I've heard alot of Alvarez that sound bad plugged in and a bunch of Martins that sound good. I think the Fishbreath system, properly installed could make most anything sound good.
I also played a Garrison today, a nice sounding $350 POS. For a beach guitar or beater it's great. Right up there with a Seagull although probably a bit more money. |
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Location: East Tennessee | Talk about Smell.
I love the smell of the cigar humidor room at the tobacco store and the smell of fresh made Colombian Coffee.
Guitars, I'd rather play them than smell them.
My Martin Guitars sound awesome but so do my Ovations. Style and mood are the reasons I pick one over the others for a given song or venue.
For consistancy and durability the Ovation is probably going to my preferred choice.
No I will not part with my Martins either. |
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Location: NJ | garrison???
oh man I would rather own an MOB |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | I didn't say I bought it!!! Just that it sounded good. Both that and the MOB are POS but at least the Garrison isn't totally ugly.
On to smell. I can't tell if this is real or percieved but when I play the Brazilian Collings they give off this great rosewood smell, different from Martins. Also the type of finish used will give off some oders, particularly the catalized lacquers. Plain old nitro-lacq is still the best in my book (even with all the associated problems it has)
However, there is NOTHING like the smell of binary resine in the morning, it smells like victory! |
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Location: closely held secret | Tony,
I play worship with a guy who plays a Taylor with the "Expression System". They don't have an XLR, what they have is a TRS (stereo 1/4"). Of course this means you have to have a 1/4" to XLR cable to plug into a mic input to the board. Not something most churches keep in the gear drawer.
The plugged-in sound is actually pretty sweet, as long as the person playing controls their dynamics well. If you start playing hard, though, the volume seems to shoot up exponentially, causing some really ugly distortion and peaking.
And that's just on the soundman's face.
btw, on Easter he plugged in and we heard a little "pop" and his output went dead. Seems his battery kind of exploded inside. Lucky for him I had my Legend in my car... |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Originally posted by cliff:
Next weekend, we've got our first gig booked at a local Rock&Roll CigarBar . . . .
Looking forward to it. What place is that, Cliff? |
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Location: NJ | Adam's Beer Garden in Rockaway (Sat, Apr. 9th).
(Actually, it's always been a little "roadhouse"-type bar that books too-loud rock bands on the weekends. The current owner (possibly new) also owns the cigar shop in Denville and he's pushing t'do acoustic acts on Sat. nights with wine & cigars. I get the impression that the bartender/manager is resisting this whole thing 'cause when Rick and I were there last Sat. to drop off flyers and check it out, there was a band that was just WAY too loud (for the size of the room) and not a cigar to be found . . . at least not by the second song . . . which was when I left). We'll see . . .
c'mon up & burn one . . . . |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | I'll be there. |
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Location: NJ | Bring one of your Martins.
(just trying to keep it "topical" ;-) |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Originally posted by cliff:
Bring one of your Martins.
(just trying to keep it "topical" ;-) Be careful about what you ask for.... :p |
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Ovations v. Martins