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Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | Is it wrong to bud in to a conversation between a Music Store Saleperson and a Customer when the Customer don't know Jack and the Salesperson is full of it? Or some variance in between... |
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Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ | That's a tough question. I hate it when people come off as know-it-alls and offer me unsolicited advice. Did I friggin ask? But that's only because I myself am a know-it-all (yeah, you're all shocked). Pisses me off that someone would think they are a better know-it-all that I am. They're not. They think they are, but I know better. |
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Posts: 2503
Location: Fayetteville, NC | I have no problem volunteering my 2 cents worth, if they don't want it...TOUGH!! It's a free country! Now that sounds mean, but thats OK, my Bark is always worse than my bite. :) |
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Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | MWoody,
Depends on the situation, some people deserve the sales pitch they get, because they should know better, while others don't. What situation were you thinking about? |
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Posts: 88
Location: Dayton, Ohio | if we're talking specifically about ovations, i think you should definitely step in. i don't know a hell of a lot, but i still know more about them than most people who work in music stores around here. that's sad. and i think that anyone who takes the time to be on this site is a huge dork and totally in love with their guitar and probably much more qualified to talk about ovations than some dude working in a music store. |
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April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | IF the salesman says something that is totally wrong or false, I think it is an obligation to correct them...unless it makes the "O" look and sound better.....then I would smile and walk away! |
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Posts: 604
Location: Tampa, FL | "anyone who takes the time to be on this site is a huge dork"
er...thanks...I think |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | "anyone who takes the time to be on this site is a huge dork"
so, that's a good thing, right? Size does matter? |
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December 2003
Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | If I am not wearing my OFC T shirt when I walk in I should at least have my shiny bowl gold and ebon OFC pin stuck somewhere noticeable. That alone should be fair warning!
I try to carry at least two OFC picks to issue as calling cards at any moment.
I am waiting for the "My Dealer's in Jersey" Tshirt! |
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September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | I voted that it's not right to interrupt a sales pitch. I think it's okay to engage people who are window shopping in friendly conversation but it's not good to interfer with someone trying to do their job.
I work a sales counter and it reeeealy ticks me off when another customer butts in. |
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November 2002
Posts: 1300
Location: Madison, Wisconsin | I agree with Brad. It's NOT ok to interupt someone just doing their job but there's nothing wrong with waiting for them to finish and starting up your own sales pitch. Lots of sales pelple are directed to sell one brand over another for "business" reasons. The kid's probably just doing what he's told. |
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July 2003
Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | I HAVE injected myself into a salesperson/customer conversation on more than one occasion at our local GC, as gently as I could. The salespeople didn't know anything about Ovations, and I ended up being far more help than they were.
I usually ended up sending the customers elsewhere, because GC did NOT have what the customer wanted.
Roger |
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March 2005
Posts: 417
Location: Cicero, NY | IMHO, it all comes down to the pitch being delivered and if the person is getting sucked in or not. If some slick sales guy is pulling a fast one to, oh I don't know, say, my wife, I would (and have) offered to "explain it in a little more detail". That saves me, I mean some poor schlep the trip back to the store to return the item and give a PIECE OF MY MIND TO THE GOD BLESSED, LOUSY SOB that...whoops, sorry...getting a litle carried away there.
If it's fair and accurate, I would never step in. |
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December 2003
Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | In the words of Ron White:
"I had the right to remain silent...
...I just didn't have the ability!" |
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July 2004
Posts: 338
Location: Omaha | I did this recently; I was in a local music 'haunt,' and a distraught middle-aged guy (somewhat like myself!) had brought in a Strat that he'd bought on e-bay in the hopes of getting the action set up to his liking. Unfortunately, they couldn't get the action where it needed to be, telling him the neck or truss rod was screwed up, and that they believed the e-bay seller must have known this about the guitar before selling it.
This wasn't just a $300 MIM Strat, this was a quilt-topped, birdseye maple necked (birdseye and some flamed necks being prone to weakness, as they told him) Strat for which this poor guy had paid around $1,600!!! I commiserated with him in the store a bit (along with the sales guy and the guitar tech, although I know they were thinking he may have been taking a big risk to spend that much on e-bay for this guitar). They suggested he get in touch with the seller and PRAY that he could get his money back. He seemed set on keeping the guitar, even if it meant getting a replacement neck from Fender (which will be $500 if it's anything!).
I ran into him outside, putting his worthless guitar in his car, and I suggested that he try Dan Erlewine at stewmac.com. He'd never heard of Erlewine or Stewart MacDonald, but I told him that, if Dan was willing to work on it, he'd be a likely candidate to repair it, if it was fixable at all...
...don't know what he decided to do, but I just felt sorry for him; his emotional attachment to the guitar (already) had completely clouded his judgment - he wasn't even angry with the seller - but it was one time when I truly hoped my advice would be helpful.
;) |
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Posts: 4413
| I'm surprised the majority isn't greater ;) |
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Posts: 27
Location: Somewhere in cyberspace | The truth, as usual, is somewhere in between. It would certainly be rude to interrupt a salesman when he's trying to close a deal. I would never do that, no matter what idiocy he happens to be spouting. But nowhere does it say that one can't wait for the guy to finish and THEN say "well, actually I have it on good authority that..." If my advice is not welcome, I just shrug my shoulders and walk on. Life's too short to impart wisdom on every ignorant moron. Works for me. |
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August 2002
Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Two cents from someone who has always put beans on the table by being a salesman in one form or another ...
Do not come into MY place of business and interfere with MY customers. Your "freedom of speech" and "this is a free country" do not extend into MY store. Stand outside on the public sidewalk if you'd like ... that is YOUR right, but once the customer is in MY store do not willingly attempt to disrupt or damage my business because you have some bigoted notion that you know better than me or my employees. You did not invest in getting these people to MY store, I did. What goes on inside my store is MY business, not yours. If someone asks your opinion, you are free to give it. If you put yourself into the middle of one of my sales transactions and screw it up, you are liable to me for lost revenues and profits. If I catch you doing it, I will politely ask that you leave my store. If you do it again, I will have you forcibly removed and obtain a restraining order. If you think you know so much about guitars, go open up your own damn store and sell what you want to sell. But this on is MY store so stay the hell away from my customers.
End of rant. |
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December 2003
Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | //0~0\
I do fully realize that the purpose of this poll was to:
A) Entertain!
B) Get each of us to consider the ethic!
C) Exceed the number of Posts by Bailey to acheive the #6 position, thank you very much!
All three seem to have suceeded! |
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September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Stonebobbo....right on brother...right on.
And it's a matter that has no a "grey" area. If someone is working with the sales staff, leave them alone. I sure would not want someone hanging in my store, getting fingerprints all over my inventory, while sending people to my competitors.
Friendly conversation with fellow guitarists is great. But I should also listen to what the other guy says. Who knows...I might learn something.
Also, I might have sparked this by saying that I was going to GC and cause some trouble. I would not really do that. |
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November 2002
Posts: 3666
Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Caveat Emptor. I never underestimate my own ignorance, nor frequently, my lack of discretion. I usually contibute unsolicited conjecture rather freely, but respect free enterprise, and a merchant's domain, even more highly. If people haven't done their "informed consumer" homework before shelling out their BenjiFranklin clones, so be it. |
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December 2004
Posts: 4394
Location: East Tennessee | I voted not to interfere. If the opportunity arises later I would give the customer my opinion. I will usually advise to play A LOT of different instruments before purchasing and then to go with what they like and can afford. Different strokes for different folks.
For the money Ovation makes the best sounding guitar on the market. Any guitar costing over $1,000 had better sound good, look good, and have the workmanship worthy of the price.
MWoody; I think the poll is entertaining, but exceed the number of posts by Bailey? Probably not unless you add something about Tatoos or breasts. :D
Adding Graemlins helps too. :) :D ;) :p :cool: |
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March 2005
Posts: 417
Location: Cicero, NY | I totally understand the view that a store owner/operator has a vested interest in each and every one of the people that he can get into his store but, unfortunately, if he's blatently shoveling s*&t to someone who doesn't know better (regardless of the caveat emptor rule), I will say something. Then, should you throw me out and ask me never to come back, if that's how you do business? I'll agree to it. Sorry about that.
Would I "start" trouble? Never. Stop it? Every time. |
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August 2004
Posts: 604
Location: Tampa, FL | WeaserP, I guess I would ask, why do your feel that you must fix the world? If the shop owner's business practices offend you, do business elsewhere. I suppose that you could suggest to the owner that he is misrepresenting his facts in some manner. But, unless you want to delve into the question of objective, absolute, truth, I don't know that I would presume to know all that led upto the vignette I was seeing or what will ensue after. If I felt strongly enough, I would indeed mention my opinions to the owner. Ultimately, I would like to believe the marketplace is relatively efficient and that unscrupulous businessmen will be effectively weeded out.
Either that, or call Al. |
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November 2004
Posts: 88
Location: Dayton, Ohio | "I would like to believe the marketplace is relatively efficient and that unscrupulous businessmen will be effectively weeded out."
wow. sweet guy, but a little naive, huh... |
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August 2004
Posts: 604
Location: Tampa, FL | Not naive, just very aware of what I can change and I typically try to stay away from windmills. |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Sancho would be ashamed of you. |
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March 2005
Posts: 417
Location: Cicero, NY | Chatman, I respectfully submit that you may be misunderstanding the objective here. If someone is being lied to for the sake of profit and some one points that out, I hardly think that's being bent on fixing the world. If you would like my opinion on that, I would suggest that you ask a better question than what's been asked here and we get a different forum. I've got plenty to say.
Here, I'm not changing the world as much as fixing the little bit in front of my face when the opportunity arises. If more did that, the world would take care of itself. But, if you like it the way it is, don't complain when your Mom, wife or kids get screwed by the unscrupulous. They'll be weeded out soon enough. Just not by you. |
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May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Originally posted by Standingovation:
That's a tough question. I hate it when people come off as know-it-alls and offer me unsolicited advice. Did I friggin ask? But that's only because I myself am a know-it-all (yeah, you're all shocked). Pisses me off that someone would think they are a better know-it-all that I am. They're not. They think they are, but I know better. To paraphrase:
People who think they know it all really piss off those of us who do.
:D |
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March 2004
Posts: 201
Location: Vernon, CT | Someone who thinks they know everything could be referred to as a "Sexual Intellectual" which is more commonly known as a "Fvckin' Know-It All!" : )
John L. |
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May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | My kids think I know everything. Probably because I tell them I do. And I tend to find out about things they do and say from other sources and then ask them embarrasing questions at opportune moments.
My oldest son (the 15 year old) tends to avoid answers now. One time he told me, 'I don't really need to answer you, because I know you don't ask questions you don't already know the answers to.' I laughed so hard, I forgot what we were talking about. |
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July 2003
Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | My experience at GC has been not that the salespeople are misleading, just a little unknowledgeable about Ovations. If I get involved, it is when the salespeople cannot answer the customer's questions on the subject of Ovations.
My last instance was 3 weeks ago, when an interested customer asked about Adamas, and the salesdroid at GC didn't even know what Adamas guitars are. I educated the customer about them (he was happy to talk to an Adamas owner) and told him where he could see a couple locally. Unfortunately, it sure wasn't at our local GC!!!!!!
I would not disturb any usual sales pitch, and get involved only if I can help with some Ovation knowledge.
Roger |
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August 2003
Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | at least at my local GC (La Mesa, next to San Diego), some of the staff get up to NAMM each year.
they get excited about the guitars but don't have any in stock to sell.
last year, it took seven months for this store to get the 30th Anniv CL, at least 5 months to get the LX in. |
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November 2002
Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | I have joined in many conversations about Ovations at my local music store. In fact I was there once and one of the employees there said, "ask Paul if you want to know about an Ovation". Then know how much I love Ovation guitars, and I talk about them to anyone there who will listen. :) |
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April 2003
Posts: 2503
Location: Fayetteville, NC | Well, Maybe I should clarify my feelings again. I'll interject my thoughts. Not necessarily int errupt someone in the middle of there Sales Pitch. But I Do use every opportunity to sing the praises of Ovation.I've done this at two different music stores in Cary NC, and at the Guitar Center and Sam Ash In Raliegh. I've actually done it here at the two main dealers in Fayetteville One used to be an Ovation Dealer and they no longer carry the product. The other dealer never carried them but they know how I feel and how passionate I am about Ovations.
There's nothing wrong with that..who knows it might actually win over some new Converts! :) |
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June 2004
Posts: 271
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida | Having the longest tenure at my place of emplyoment, (26 yrs, The current owner only has 21 yrs) I find myself biting my tongue EVERY day... even with the owner, but I pick those battles VERY carefully...
It depends on the severity of the error or "misinformation" being spewed...
We have a code word, that is used just for such infractinous behavior...
The code word is "Jeannie Beans" which basicly applies to ANY situation were it is understood, that:
"you better follow my lead cuz you just stepped in something and didn't realize it..."
Normally it is politely used to pull someone away in the middle of a sales pitch, where a safe distance away from the customer, the error is pointed out and the salesman is left to recover, as best he can, on his own and still save some type of face, albeit slighlty rosey red from embarrasment...
AB
PS
I HATE it when an unincluded customer buds into my sales pitch... Mine (sales pitch) is tempered with 40 years of experiance, so it is well documented...
I look on it as a violation and just plain RUDE !!! |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | I do try to keep in mind that while I'm out for recreation the Sales Staff is still trying to make a living!
I will engage in the conversation of the shoppers and not directly challenge the salesman. Most Instrument sales I have watched the Salesman gives very little info and usually leaves the Customer alone to ponder or make a choice. This is the moment that I have the right to remain silent, but none of the ability!
This moment is fair game!
It is then for the Customer to consider if I am full of beans or have some good points. The clincher in most scenarios is when the Customer actually plays or hears played the instrument.
Then, all smoke and cloaks aside, the instrument takes the stand and gives its own testimony! |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | I agree, interrupting sales staff with customers would be rude (unless they are being less than truthful). Like going into a Ford dealership and busting into a conversation with, "Hey! You don't want this POS! You want a (insert your opinion here)".
Every time I go into GC, I head straight for the acoustic room, grab the purtiest O on the wall and start pickin' discreetly, appearing to be oblivious to all around me. I try to do it between the acoustic room door and the quiet (read: "Taylor") room.
Usually heads turn - trust me, it ain't my playing that gets their attention. |
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Not Hiring: Ovation Advocate Position