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March 2005
Posts: 417
Location: Cicero, NY | Ok, I know all about the "every guitar is different and you definitely want to play the one you buy BEFORE you buy it" but I also know that a lot of you seem to have purchased guitars, sight unseen, over the 'Net. I was always leery about that but I'm wondering if I'm not worrying needlessly if I was going to buy (Ovation or otherwise) from a reputable seller such as Music123, MusiciansFriend or the like.
I'd appreciate some thoughts on that. |
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Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | When buying from the more reputable it usually isn't a problem. |
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November 2004
Posts: 110
Location: Peoria, Illinois | WeaserP,
I bought my '05 Collector on the net (music 123). Before I buy, I try to get as much information about a product as I can. For the most part, I am not afraid to buy without playing, but limit this to $1500.00 or less. Anything costing more than that, I need to evaluate in person. I have bought from my local mom and pop operation, the local GC, and on the net. They all seem to have a place in the big picture for me. |
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December 2003
Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | I got my 1778LX from "the likes" of Al Pep, sight unseen following intense research of limited info and the GAS I got from discovering this website!
With M123 and MF you have a liberal return policy to lean back on.
Use of Paypal and Visa (wassadiffrence?) gives certain protections as well.
If you can't play it first do your research! |
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March 2005
Posts: 417
Location: Cicero, NY | Actually I have played the guitar I think I'm settling on, I just don't appreciate the only store in town that carries it and, beyond that, I can also beat his price on the Net. |
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May 2002
Posts: 1026
Location: Back in the Valley of the Sun Mesa Az. | That's exactly what drove me to Musician's Friend Weaser! I always believed in supporting the local guy trying to scratch out a living, but when that guy becomes arrogant because he is the only game in town....Hello Mucisian's Friend. As I stated in an earlier post, when I have not been happy with a product, they have accomodated me without any game playing or problems.
Norse(unpaid for endorsement)man1 |
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Posts: 88
Location: Dayton, Ohio | i got my elite t on ebay and my dad has gotten several o's that way. i couldn't be happier! |
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August 2003
Posts: 2246
Location: Yucaipa, California | I got my 2001 Redwood Collector's sight-unseen from Al. I would trust him for any purchase. He know his stuff and is completely trustworthy. He will also back up the purchase and provide any assistance required. Whether he's reputable or not, that's another issue....
....so, Al, where's my 5-string banj-O? |
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December 2003
Posts: 1071
Location: Carle Place, NY | It's well known that GC will match any verified internet price. If you live near a GC, I wonder why anyone would buy a new guitar on-line unless it's a close-out available only on-line like the Ovation 1867 and 1767 for $699 currently from Musician's Friend. If I were buying a new guitar, I would want to play it first because I've found a big difference in sound between supposedly identical guitars.
The thing is now I only buy guitars used on eBay. I've gotten some great deals. To me it's worth taking a chance on a nice used guitar when the price difference between new and used is substantial. |
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March 2005
Posts: 417
Location: Cicero, NY | I live an hour and a half from the closest GC. Not that I wouldn't travel it (because I would) but when I go to the site, it shoots me right to MusiciansFriend. Is that a sister site? |
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Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | GC owns Musicians Friend. |
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December 2003
Posts: 1071
Location: Carle Place, NY | Musicians Friend is Guitar Centers' internet alter ego. |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | They also appear to now own InstrumentExchange. |
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March 2003
Posts: 127
Location: Corvallis, OR | My take on this is ; there is a trade-off involved in the decision to buy things on the NET. If you buy from the net, you get convenience and (often) a discount. On the negative side, there is the hassle of trying to return something ( you must pay for handling and shipping, usually.)
And of course, if you buy from Ebay, the negative side is that you may never see what you paid for...
My own experience is good - I have never been disappointed with Ebay or a large retail store online. |
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March 2005
Posts: 417
Location: Cicero, NY | Can I assume GC carries a fairly large inventory? I'd hate to drive over there and find three acoustics...maybe I should call over there and see exactly what they do have... |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Ovations? Totally depends on the store, but most I've been in don't carry very many. Maybe it's different on the East Coast. Lately the one near me has been doing better, but for every O they have there's 3 or 4 Martin and Taylor.
Better call first, find out exactly which models are hanging right now. |
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November 2004
Posts: 4413
| It seems to me that you guys should not be buying anywhere except al. If I can do it from 3500 miles away, you can.
Either you believe all the good stuff written about the fat man in mauve on this site or you don't.
A custom model? With import duty AND taxes to pay - which may take up to a year to get refunded if I return the guitar?
That's faith boys. |
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August 2002
Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | If you live near a GC, I wonder why anyone would buy a new guitar on-line unless it's a close-out Because then I have to go into GC and deal with those people. The GC's in my area are dominated by the heavy metal shredder kids who wonder why anyone would buy something other than a Jackson, and the other employees are still waiting for the A&R guy to show up with the record deal and are getting more pissed each passing year. I yearn for the days when everyone who worked in a music store was stoned. ;) |
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November 2004
Posts: 4413
| Allelujah. |
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September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | True story.....Went to the GC last Tuesday after work. Somebody is trying out an electric with lots of sharp cut angles on it. He turns it up to eleven and starts doing the "chuka-chunka" thing. We're talking mosh pit level sound. A lady is in the store with her little girl (maybe 4 years old). The poor girl is scared into hysteria. Wide eyed fear and panic. The mother brought her into the acoustic room to try to calm her down. Which took a while. |
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February 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: Warren,Pa. | Like my daughter said, I've had good experiences buying on the net. I did have a little scare, though, with my 6778LX NEB (I mentioned this in another thread). Right after I hit "buy it now" I was at GC in Paramus, NJ where I saw 2 of these on the wall: One had a MUCH higher grade top than the other. It was then I realized you can't always see the quality of the wood in web photo. Thank God MY guitar has a beautiful top, but in the photo the NEB finish just looks like a nice paint job. Still, I'd buy online again. John <>{ |
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Posts: 1116
Location: Keller, TX | The other reason to buy on the net is taxes. GC will match any price, but they still have to charge state tax.
I want a 1778LX-4 (natural). Nobody has one. I have been to the local mom & pop, Nope. Local GC, nope. Big Al, Nope - 2 months wait. GC has a honeyburst color in stock. Specially made for them, but don't carry the natural in stock, which is what I want.
GC looked on their computer. None in the state. Called their rep in California - guess what the wait time was. Yep, 2 months. I guess the factory is too busy buiding the 2005 collectors???
So I can click on Guitar Trader, or MF and get the guitar I want in the color I want for the same price that GC offers (or better) without taxes. I haven't called, or processed the order, but it looks like no taxes will be charged. MF free shipping, GT $20 shipping.
So as soon as my Adamas sells, I'll end up ordering one from one of these places. |
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March 2005
Posts: 417
Location: Cicero, NY | Actually, at least in NYS, they're getting much more serious about taxes on purchases over the 'Net. Right now, they're telling you you have to pay (in most instances - take it from an accountant, there are ALWAYS exceptions) but they're stillworking out how these companies have to report it. Which means it's an honor system and you can get away with it unless you're audited. But, bottom line? It is taxable. |
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April 2003
Posts: 2503
Location: Fayetteville, NC | Guitar Traders site mentions free shipping on a lot of their guitars at least some of the Ovations I've looked at. Some of them come with a nice amount of freebie promotional items.I'd say it's worth the fact that you pay no state taxes Plus you get what you want. I wouldn't hesitate to buy on the net. |
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October 2002
Posts: 26
Location: Western PA | I bought my 2005 Collectors from Alpep and my wife (Saint Sweet Innocent Jane of Wexford) gifted me a Viper from Al at Christmas 2004 (I am one lucky devil). One might consider that the Internet. I trust Al and Ovation. |
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February 2005
Posts: 112
Location: WV | As soon as the piggy bank is full I will be getting a Adamas....And it will be from Al. |
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December 2004
Posts: 4394
Location: East Tennessee | I would, and have, purchased Ovations without playing them first.
I would NEVER purchase an all wood guitar even Martins, and that other one, without playing first. Too much difference within identical models. |
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November 2002
Posts: 3666
Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Every one of my FleaBay O's has been a restoration project, so the issue is somewhat....moot. Actually, Al has provided some carcasses to the cause, also. I expect to put my eyes, ears & fingers on anything new, and over 4 figures- if that day ever comes. |
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July 2002
Posts: 1900
| I got my '92 1767 on ebay from a collector in phoenix with a 100% positive feedback; he listed it with plenty of quality photos, answered all my questions, i met the reserve, it was mine in a week's time, not a scratch on it, mint...
Steve |
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October 2002
Posts: 181
Location: Queens, NY | Waskel, it's no different on the East coast than the West coast. Stores like Sam Ash and GC here carry mostly Celebs and Celeb Deluxes, and only a handful of the higher end ones. Unless a store devoted itself to selling only Ovations, it would be next to impossible to stock them all. Of course, any store that's an Ovation dealer could order one for you, but I could do that myself on the internet and save on the sales tax (unless the place you're ordering from is in the same state where you live).
I've ordered from both MusiciansFriend and Music123, and I've found both to be pretty good about returns. I've never personally ordered anything from Al, but I hear he's "duh man!". |
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Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ | Interesting display at GC in Union Square NYC. They have this beautiful Ovation LX "wall" display that you've probably seen in other stores. Very classy and well done. Only problem is that they have built a "mountain" of Fender acoustic guitar boxes with guitars on top of them, right in front of the Ovation wall. If you twist your neck just right and peek between the fenders you can "almost" make out the shape of an Ovation in the background. It is 100% impossible to see, touch or play any of the Ovations. Yes, Ovations get no respect. |
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Joined:
January 2004
Posts: 648
Location: Florida | Personally, unless there is some crazy speacial on the net (MF, M123, Elderly, etc etc), I've found better deals at the local small stores.
Sorry to say, but all those catalogs and fliers are expensive as hell. Even with co-op ad money, they're a huge expense, and we - the consumer - see it in the price tag.
Go to mom and pop, no fliers, great service, maybe not a huge selection, but if they have what you want, you'll usually get a better deal.
On the other hand... one of my last purchases was an item that was selling used on Ebay for more than I could buy one new at Elderly. I wanted a used one (was hacking it to shreds anyway) but the new ones were cheaper! Go figure. |
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Joined:
January 2004
Posts: 338
Location: SE Michigan | I just ordered a Gibson ES-137 from MF. Why? An incredible price, free shipping, hardshell case included, NO TAX (6% in my state), plus a 45 day exchange policy. How can you go wrong?
As much as I love the local shops, I feel like I would be pissing them off if I dickered on the price or returned an item that turned out to be a mistake. I have no such concerns about GC or MF, they are a faceless machine to me. The guys at the local GC actually brag about the no questions asked return policy, they say it's a great way to test drive stuff using your own set up in your own enviroment, and they are right. How can anybody assess something in a GC showroom? Not only is it total bedlam in these places, but nothing is in tune and the setup and strings are usually crappy.
This will be my first guitar from MF, but believe me, if it doesnt meet my expectations I will ship it back guilt-free on day 44 if need be. |
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January 2004
Posts: 648
Location: Florida | Those 137s are a steal at $799 with HSC. |
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March 2005
Posts: 417
Location: Cicero, NY | That's a point well taken, Charlie - promotion is expensive (and I'm in the advertising biz, so I knows what I is talkin' 'bout there) but that's often countered by the volume discounts the big guys command and the lack of overhead of a corner store stocked with 20 year old Clapton's who are working for cents (sense?) but HAVE to be there nonetheless.
I do agree with Brian in that I'd like to support the local guy - heck, at one point, I dreamed of being the local guy and if I ever hit the lottery, I WILL be the local guy and live my days out hanging in a litle shop that makes no money - but is it inherently wrong to look at value (read: price for the product) too? |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | I've bought 3 Ovations and 2 amps this year so far and tried for several more on ebay. It's been a mixed bag, but the best deals have not been on ebay. The 2 I bought were not very good and were top dollar, although I liked them both. The first one I traded for my 99 Collector's (with some cash). I typically get outbid on anything I want and only end up with something I really didn't.
I have a guitar store 2 blocks from work that doesn't carry Ovations, but I bought the 2 amps there. I also was a regular at a small Ovation dealer until he sold a Celebrity to someone else that I told the owner I would buy if he figured out what was wrong with the tuner. He got me started on ebay.
I like going into the little shops, but also go to GC regularly. I usually go right to the acoustic room. Now that I have the Ultra GS, I'll probably walk right by all the shredders every time. |
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Joined:
January 2004
Posts: 338
Location: SE Michigan | I have bought and sold a few guitars on Ebay, I think for guitars Ebay works out better for the seller. The guitars I bought were decent but were not real gems either, I wound up selling them. Common sense would ask why is someone selling a guitar if it is a real gem? And also if it was a really nice guitar most people would sell it to a friend or aquaintance. Not to say that there are not some really good buys on guitars on Ebay, it's just that the odds are against you, and when a really sweet guitar shows up, the bidding competition is stiff.
But on things like books, software, shoes, tools, and effects, Ebay has saved me tons of money, I buy these items literally for pennies on the dollar. |
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Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | When I got back into playing 2 years ago, I bought the guitar I wanted, an Epiphone Casino, from Music123. It arrived TWO DAYS after I ordered it, setup was perfect, no issues AT ALL. I shopped all the local stores before I ordered it, nobody had it, but they were all happy to order it for me at LIST PRICE(no thank you).
Electrics, I would not be afraid to buy from a store on the web(unless I wanted to get the best possible flame in a finish or something like that). Acoustics, I believe there is too much variability, I won't buy now without seeing and hearing. I've bought two used acoustic guitars from eBay sellers and both had issues that the sellers did not fess up to in the auction listing(and were not obvious). No more eBay guitars.
Roger |
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