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December 2003
Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | I put this to the Members as a poll, although I already know my answer. The question came up over a picture of a unique pair of Deacons:
Although drawn from necessity and the designs of Non-Production Ovation Luthiers these two guitars are not considered to be traditional Ovation Solidbodies. They are made from scavenged parts and artistic inspiration.
Wait, didn't the Factory do this sometimes?
Traditional or Rational. Where do you stand? |
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Joined:
April 2003
Posts: 2503
Location: Fayetteville, NC | Interesting question. I would tend to want to find amodel as it was offered in good condition and working order. But at the same time I also feel that Rational creeps in, because it's the next logical step. Having one built from scaneged parts by someone that can truly put together a work of art is a way to keep Ovation Solidbodies going.Michael, You do great work! |
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Posts: 2503
Location: Fayetteville, NC | This is a great question It desreves a bump! |
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November 2004
Posts: 1374
| well since receiving my first 2 O solid-bodies I have pondered the same question and contacted MWoody about doing a treatment on one or both of mine.(still haven't decided but his work is stunning).
Mike did you get your P/D yet? how's it look?
the pg/elx changes are easily reversed or restored in most cases and as long as you keep the old hw you could always revert to original if selling to a purist..
These were built from NOS, Salvage, Gifts and Love and are beautiful examples of our passion here.
parts is parts.... those guitars are art.
God Bless,
Glenn |
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Posts: 2503
Location: Fayetteville, NC | That's right Glenn!Mike really did a greatjob on them.If I was wanting a solidbody restored or reworked somewhat. I would be contacting him right away. |
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December 2003
Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | "parts is parts.... those guitars are art"
Pure profundity Glen! Thanks. As far as the work I do - never focus too clearly - old ebay trick!
This whole issue is one I have to wrastle with due to the condition of the Preacher Deluxe I just received. The electronics popped, squeeled and hummed only - both switches were snapped off everything was corroded. The body is a beautiful slab of wood with many a ding and more finish lines than conceivable. No two screws matched. Under the finish are several spider/bubble thingys so...
The body will be refinished, the better neck goes on and a veneer PG will be made. While I am locating parts and getting the Pup covers and plates replated I may install a foriegn set of electronics - which can be swapped out when the stock stuff is ready!
One idea for the interum cover is to run a strong set of Pups under the cover and to use a stacked pot and Blender pot. All you'll see is two knobs and a jack.
We'll see! |
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February 2004
Posts: 2487
| I am not sure about the rest of the members interested in these solid bodies but I don't know enough about these to have an opinion one way or the other.
Mike your photo is the first time I have looked at one of these.
I like what I see these seem quite different and Wow what a nice pair they make. How do they sound??? How do they play???
So they are deacons? What other info can you or the rest of our Ovation Historian/Experts impart here???
By the way I would like to buy that 12 string. I will have to watch Ebay a little closer.
Randy |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I have thought about this question myself. Are they Ovations? Well sortof. Is there a trademark infringement? Yes, but I doubt anyone would get called out unless they tried selling them in quantity. Are they fantastic looking guitars that I assume play at least as good as they sound? Well that's something else.
I guess I would modify (or put together) a guitar for my own purposes, but I don't think I would ever buy one like those above.
Please don't be offended, but I would rather see an MWoody guitar, and I WOULD pay money for that. Someone with that much talent should be able to do better than just refinish and copy someone elses idea. For those that know me, know I have a few B.C. Rich guitars. I had the designer of the Bich build me a Bich and he wanted to know if I wanted the B.C. RIch headstock. I said HELL NO, I wanted HIS headstock on it, he built it, not B.C. Rich.
Then... there is the Steinberger guitar. Someone who I won't even mention by name bought out the old stock and was putting guitars together and selling them. He wasn't "pieceing" guitars together, he was assembling the parts that just never got assembled... Were those Steinberger guitars? Well, no, but how would one ever know?
All sorts of food for thoughts. |
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Joined:
November 2004
Posts: 1374
| Mike,
sorry bout the sick preacher, you'll get it back in shape I'm sure. so it's a "go fish" situation for the elx? none available any more at the mother-ship?
guess I should be very thankful then that mine arrived in sound working order, albeit without a proper set of knobs.(soon fixed Thanks Jon B!!)
there are some hardware parts for deacon/preacher on e-bay right now.
God Bless,
Glenn |
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December 2003
Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | The 12 shouldn't show up on Ebay any time soon. It just feels too good.
Miles, No offense taken in any honest opinion given. What I have put together are refinished Ovations so I have no qualms about re-adhering a (shinier)logo. When I first perused your "Jim" Deacon and then saw Samova's I fell in love. The wood PGs I do are plagarism, pure and simple. I like them and they are also available on the web - but only if you play the same dang guitar everyone else has!
It's more obsession and choice of venue than talent. Someone else has already designed and fabricated the equipment. I'm just cutting and pasting.
Question: Is Bluebird's Viper an Ovation if it has no logo on the stock?
I think it is, without a doubt!
NC - check out the gallery area. I'll try to update. |
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September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Maybe they should just be looked on as '57 Chevy that has been customized. It's still a '57 Chevy and I would rather see it modified than in a scrap heap. |
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Posts: 1374
| The very reason I restored my old 66 Chevy Shortbed stepside and gave it to my son.
not completely original but still a very nice ride.
God Bless,
Glenn |
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February 2004
Posts: 2487
| Watching ebay for parts guitars. Not your 12? I would love to buy your 12 but I am quite sure it is not for sale.
It is the wood pick guards that make these look so good. I see a Deacon on the bay now for $600
I guess these guitars are the same category as my 5 string bass I just bought....Genuine Ovation parts luthiered by an ex-employee??? I did not know what to call mine so I figured I would call it a prototype or Custom?
Randy |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | By all accounts the 12 is a refinished Black Polane Breadwinner that was really a Red Deacon underneath. I simply upgraded the remaining parts :D
BTW - Randy
May 4, 2005
6:30 A.M.
GLOVERSVILLE, NY, US OUT FOR DELIVERY
Big Brown is coming today! |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I thought about this a little more, and narrowed down my opinion.
I feel differently based on if I'm looking at the guitar to buy, or just looking at the guitar.
In this case, just looking at the guitars, they are gorgeous. I don't think plagerism, or anything else, I just think nice job, cool, wish they did them that way originally, gee I want one, etc etc etc..
Now to buy, is a different story. Some would say because of the extra work and uniqueness, they are worth more than the originals, others would say, that they aren't worth as much as the originals, because they have been modified and some will just view the guitars on their own merits and decide what they are worth.
My thing with Ovation solidbodies is they be original. I have some custom ones, but they came from the Factory as custom or proto's.
One really erks me are the "Vintage Mint Strat" or whatevers on ebay that are followed in the text with "replaced neck" and "duncan pickups". Well either it's Vintage and Mint, or it's a Frankenstrat... can't have it both ways, but we see it every day. |
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April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | If I am buying it to play...give me a player, modified or not.
If I am buying it to display...all original. |
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Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 2487
| I am thinking along the same lines . These look like fun I can't believe I never really looed at one of these Deacons before?? Very strange I saw Mikes and the light went on in my head! There it is...the answer to my 12 string electric needs!
Thanks for the info guy's |
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March 2002
Posts: 15682
Location: SoCal | Good luck finding one. |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | Find the neck...
the rest will come! |
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Traditional or Rational Solidbodies