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Location: Huntington Beach, CA | Learned something interesting reading about Ovations. Evidently, they started with Fiberglass and then went to lyrachord. It was said that the Fiberglass bowls carried more bass. Can anyone tell me what "models/years" are Fiberglass. I'd love to buy/try one. Thanks. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | I don't thing there were all that many fiberglass guitars made. I was under the impression that they moved to Lyracord pretty quickly. Some Early Adamas slotheads were fibreglass, I believe and maybe some of the early shiney backs...
I'll be interested to hear more on this... |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Excerpt From Vintage Guitar
"Guitars:
Back at the blade factory was a worker who played violin. Kaman pulled him out of chopper blades, and together they set up a guitarmaking operation.
The problem that had led to Martin and the idea of making guitars in the first place also led Kaman to the idea of using synthetic materials in guitars. He realized he could use a composite fiberglass to “improve” two aspects of guitar construction. He could solve the problem of cracking due to wood shrinkage caused by changes in heat and humidity, and he could improve vibration transmission from the back because fiberglass actually resonates at frequencies similar to many woods, but is more efficient (wood actually absorbs some of the instrument’s vibrations).
Kaman and his technicians began by building traditional square-backed guitars, but by the sixth prototype were using oscilloscopes to develop the now familiar bowl-backed shape, its spherical shape being self-reinforcing, thus eliminating the need for bracing. After some experimentation, the carved, round-crowned Ovation three-and-three headstock was developed. The modern Ovation guitar with a Lyracord back was born." |
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Location: Upper Left USA | On my 1974 Custom Balladeer, 1112-1, I can see some of the glass cloth on the inside. Is this Lyrachord? |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | They were fibreglass cloth and resin moulded bowls. Since that's too much to say and doesn't have a nice ring to it (even with the Brit spellings) the word Lyrachord was created. They were all this material till the SMC bowls started in the late 70's with the Applesause and then Matrix. Eventually this spread throughout the entire Ovation line like kudzu on a Carolina hillside and by the mid 80's it had taken over. The SMC changed to HMC and then it got loaded with microballoons to reduce the weight.
Now the real early ones used Brazilian Fibreglass and those have a special sound..... |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Does the Brazilian Fibreglass really sound that much better than the Honduran? |
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Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | Very interesting! Didn't the SMC change take place at the same time as the K-bar necks?(circa '82)
My '81 Folklore 1614 has the fibreglass (Lyrachord) bowl while my '81 Classic 1613 is smooth on the inside!(SMC)
Bill, I know what you mean about kudzu on a Carolina hillside! :D We're also "blessed" with an abundance of shallow root pine trees and a whole lot of red clay mud!! :eek: |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | kudzu attacks |
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Location: south east Michigan | kudzu pics......wow. |
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Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | The Amazing Story of Kudzu
Love It,or Hate It....It Grows On You! :D (JML) |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | I know that Kudzu is generally considered a ravaging exotic intruder, but I am absolutlely fascinated by the land/forestscapes it covers/creates. |
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Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | It can be down right purdy sometimes! |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | It took several years for the kudzu, I mean the SMC to get through the line. And usually the K-Bar went with it. Usually you can spot a smc bowl by the molded in heel block and the firerglass bowls by the wooden block. That said there were some glass bowls that had a molded heel block bonded in. Safe to say, as with most transition changes, you can probably find examples of any combination of components. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | good info W2. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | I wonder what the acoustic/ sonic differences are between the new Lyracord Lite and the older SMC. The back of my Uterus seems to vibrate more than the back of my 1537 or Folklore, but with the other differences in the guitars, impossible to know, by just ear, how the back contributes. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I don't know all the technical details, but to me the old shiny hand laid bowls just sound rats ass better than just about anything else to come along with the exception of some adamii, FD14 and U681. Dave |
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Location: SoCal | Dave's right. Let's remember that the reason Ovation got away from the hand laid (is that another term for masturbation?) bowls was cost, not necessarily sound. |
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Location: NJ | I think consistency might've been a factor as well . . . |
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Location: SoCal | Probably.. |
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Location: Huntington Beach, CA | So, to know whether or not you have glass or plastic, you have to look inside the bowl for fiber, look at the outside to see if it is shiney, check the heal block to see if it is glass or wood. Can't you tell from the model number and date of manufacture?
Also, what is SMC and HMC? Can I get kudzu and plant it around my neighbor's house? Maybe add some Miracle Grow? |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Originally posted by Eman:
So, to know whether or not you have glass or plastic, you have to look inside the bowl for fiber, look at the outside to see if it is shiney, check the heal block to see if it is glass or wood. Can't you tell from the model number and date of manufacture?
Also, what is SMC and HMC? Sounds like variations on the recipe. My 1537 is SMC (maybe glass) and My Folklore which feels very different must be HMC while my Uterus is the New Lite weight stuff
Can I get kudzu and plant it around my neighbor's house? Maybe add some Miracle Grow? Plant it while they are on the summer vacation |
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Location: NJ | From a couple o'years ago:
cwk2
Member
Member # 7
posted March 12, 2003 08:34 PM
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OK guys, there is another piece of the puzzle ya'll need to keep in mind.
The bowl.
The early ones were fiberglass cloth with polyester resin done on a 100 ton press. The new ones are the SMC (sheet molding compound, or HMC- longer fibers and a higher % glass content). This stuff is like taffy and goes in the 300 ton press like a wad and gets melted, spread through out the die, and cured. It seemed like such a good idea at the time (1975). The thing is they just don't sound the same. By 1985 (I think) all production had switched over to SMC (again sorry guys, it seemed like such a good idea at the time). Some sound really good but it just doesn't ring like the old glass bowls.
SO, if you really want the stove knitting tree hugging bluegrass sound, you got to have an X brace, lacquer finished, straight acoustic, non cutaway, deep hand lay-up fiberglass CLOTH bowl.
By the way, this sound is much better than the stove-hugging, tree-knitting bluegrass. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | It just keeps getting better every day!
Custom Balladeer |
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Location: Omaha | Rats! I think my '75 1124 Country Artist is the new (one of the first, obviously) SMC stuff! I'll have to look closely when I get home...
:mad: |
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Location: SoCal | The SMC stuff was mostly phased in in the mid 1980's. Anything US built in the 1970's would be the fiberglass Lyrachord. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Paul,
You think the 1537 is glass or SMC? |
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Location: SoCal | Glass. I think.
In 83 the only guitars that were using SMC were the less expensive instruments.
Now, having said that, I think that there was a bigger differnce in sound from the hand laid cloth bowls to the fiberglass (Lyrachord) bowls, than from the fiberglass bowls to the SMC bowls.
Personal opinion. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | The 1537 is the heaviest ascoutic/elec guitar I have ever picked up. I wonder if the SMC was less heavy. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | OK, the 1537 was made in Moosup and if I remember correctly they are all smc bowls. They would be heavier than the cloth bowls. Except for the Adamii, all moosup production was SMC. New Hartford was cloth. All of North Carolina production was smc (82-85). In 85 the only factory was NH and by then pretty much everything was smc. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Handy having you around W2---
It was a hoot watching you play with Sambora on that O promo that's on the DVD going round. |
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Location: SoCal | See. Learn something new all the time. |
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Location: Huntington Beach, CA | Based on all input, I would guess that my 1621-4 Artist, made in NH, is the original cloth/glass since I figure it is circa 1972. Is that a safe assumption? The sound is deep and woodsy, balanced with solid bass, strong mids and bright highs. Fretboard is Ebony with dot inlays, electronics are internal battery and single volume near neck. Experts... please confirm. Thanks.
D. |
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Location: NJ | Just look inside . . .
. . . the SMC's'll have a smooth, (forgive me,) "plastic" look/feel to 'em . . . the glass cloth have a bit more of a flatte-black "texture" . . . |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | and the wooden heel block vs. moulded with wings.
I would guess a 21 was cloth |
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Lyrachord versus Fiberglass bowls