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Location: Maryland, USA | Today I went to GC (primarily to choose a new amplifier for gigs that had a higher output), and after I found the amp I desired, I tried out some Ovations.
The Adamas' were either sold out, or they didn't carry them, so I played a sunburst elite and a Legend (forgot what exact legend , but it costs $1000!).
Just so you know, I played them both acoustically without plugging them in (there weren't any cables in the room and the salesguy came in after I was done trying them out).
I was dissapointed. I know StephenT and JeffW have been saying that it will be hard to top my D-18 acoustically, but these Ovations didn't come close. The sound was good, warm, but lacked the vibrant and booming sound of my D-18.
It sounded like a $400 Cort I played a couple months back.
The Bass specificly I found fault in, it was a low note, but it didn't have that bassy "ring" to it that I found in my D-18.
Now maybe next time I head up there I'll plug it in and fool around with the preamp, and say that they're awesome plugged in but not acoustically, but until then, it is not on my priority list to get an Ovation Acoustic :( .
But I do have to say, they were very comfortable!!
The salesguy also didn't know Ovation made solid body guitars in the 70's (I brought my Viper in to test the amps out, it made the most sense because that's the guitar I'll be gigging with). |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Stephen,
While it is true that Martin makes great sounding guitars and the D18 is a great sounding guitar...
They tend to be tonally imbalanced. That is to say, Martins and others, accentuate a particular portion of the range, bass or treble or something in between.
Martin has become a sort of benchmark for acoustic guitar, primarily, because it was so cherished by Bluegrass pickers who liked bass runs and rhythm.
It became a sort of standard as to how an acoustic should sound. That convention is well and good and I appreciate it.
I can't speak for the Ovations you actually played, but in general, O's have a very balanced tone and don't accentuate bass or treble, so they sound Midrange-y, though they, in fact, may be producing similiar bass range as your Martin ...or treble for that matter...
Ovations excel when you start moving up the neck. Once you get past the 5th fret...even very good Martins (and others) begin to lose tone because wood is less efficient at the sides and back. Play any good Ovation up the neck and it is remarkable how well both tone and volume are maintained...
My FD-14 will destroy ANY Guitar (cept for the Uterus) up over the 5 fret and hang with all of them down below.
Additionally, there is less feedback directly through the body of the guitar to the player with O's. As a player you are not hearing the guitar as it sounds 3ft or 12 ft in front. Wooden backs offer more feedback from behind so the player feels and hears more...but that sound is lost in front of the guitar, toward the audience...if you have one... |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Stephen, Jeff makes excellent points. My GC doesn't carry Adamas guitars, I doubt that most do....they don't know how to sell them. They usually want to keep them with the other Ovations and hang them in the rafters so no one can play them. So it is difficult at best for someone to discover how good they sound.
If you are used to the sound of a Martin D-18, you are not going to like Ovations, probably. They are DIFFERENT. A FD-14 Folklore Deluxe (no longer made), an Al DiMeola Custom Legend or a 2005 Collectors would have the best chance against a D-18, for your ears. Although I'd love to know what you would think of a cedar-top S771 Balladeer (sold only at Guitar Center---but I think they are pretty much gone now).
Roger |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Roger,
I'd love to know more about the cedar S771 too. Gotta be a great guitar. |
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| Yes, I have a Martin D-15 and the sound is quite a bit different than my 1778lx. I'm not sure you should be dissapointed since doesn't the d-18 cost about $600-1000 more? The Adamas mainline (Like a CVT not the retro collector guitars) appear to be almost a lame duck. Stores in my area that did carry them (including the local GC) haven't had one in a long time. Perhaps, Al can comment on the current Adamas availibility to dealers. The 2005 Collector I played (only one) which I liked did not have the bass tone you may be looking for, nor did I find it a huge improvement in tone over the lxs I have played as many claim. I don't really expect an Ovation to sound like a Martin although I haven't played the deep bowl Al DiMeola. I'll probably be selling my d-15 and buying a higher level Martin, but that's because I like the varied tonal qualities that Martin and Ovation provide. My voice, which is horrendous, sounds less horrible with a less Bassy guitar (like an Ovation, certain Takamines, or certain Taylors). |
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Location: Maryland, USA | A D-18 is quite a bit more, but price isn't always everything, and I figured the Ovations were cheaper because the materials are less expensive.
I did like them though, don't get me wrong.
Next time I go, I'll plug them in, and maybe the preamp will change my mind.
They usually want to keep them with the other Ovations and hang them in the rafters so no one can play them. My GC was similar. There were a couple low end Ovations on ground level, but I made it a point to grab the higher ends up above to get a strong feel.
I think I'd like the Adamas better...I've seen StephenT's, and they are very beautiful, I think they'd sound extravagant.
Hopefully in the future Ovation will make guitars with a booming bass. If they did that along with having those nice rounded backs, I'd find Ovations much more enjoyable ^_^
EDIT: I did try to find an Fd-14, I didn't know they didn't make them anymore. As for the audience, the only people I've played for with my acoustic are my grandparents and my parents. They were impressed with the sound, but on the other hand they never listened to any other acoustic guitar, so they couldn't compare.
THanks for your opinions guys! |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Stephen,
Even tho I like my D-18GE alot, if I had to choose between it and the U681T (which is still about $1000 less), the U681T would win hands down. It is louder, smoother, and more even throughout the range of bass/mid/treble than the D18. It absolutely destroys the D-18 (now my Norman Blake is a different story).
Don't know much about the lower end ovations that GC carries but it doesn't surprise me that the ones you played that cost 2-3x less would be a disappointment.
Order a U681T from Al before the limited run of 100 is gone. You will not be disappointed in any way, shape or form! |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | I did find a 1771LX Balladeer that sounded very similar to a Martin D-16GT in a shop a couple of weeks ago...it was spooky! So the Ovation/Martin comparison may not be as bad as I let on....but comparing most Ovations to a D-18 is probably not a good idea if you are looking for equivalent sound.
A Martin D-15 is a different critter than a D-18....it has a (very nice) sound all its own (for those who don't know, a D-15 is all mahogany). I don't know of an Ovation that has a sound anything like a D-15. The cedar-top S771 Balladeer has its similarities, though....
The cedar-top S771 Balladeer is definitely something special. I bought one of the first ones my local GC got in a year ago. It just screams "folk/country" in the sound. It isn't a guitar with a lot of bling, just very well made, plus the inlaid rosette that cms-man put on it....
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | The Martin 15 and 16 series guitars are the best bang for the buck of any acoustic guitar under $1000.00.The D-15S slothead is a monster.It really had a huge sound.I have a 00016SGT slothead that is a smallbody 12 fret guitar and it is incredible.Here is a pic of the 00016SGT.I paid $800.00.As most of you knopw i am a longtime Ovation fan and have played quite a few of the new LX models and one FD-14.I was very underwelmed by these guitars..
http://www.ovationfanclub.com/photos/samova_79267_00016sgt.jpg |
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Location: Tennessee | Hold yer fire ... I too am a longtime Ovation fan but I just picked up a D-15 Custom. Solid East Indian Rosewood back, sides, fretboard and bridge, with solid Sitka Spruce top. $800 and it included a nice hardshell case. Huge bang for the buck ... sounds as good or better than any other Martin I've ever put my hands on, and a thousand times better than any Taylor I've played, regardless of price. There's not much in the way of eye candy on this one, but it's sort of like the plain jane down the street that can belt out an aria second to none.
I can't wait until this thing opens up ... I figure it'll take a year or two before I know what it will really sound like.
I really do appreciate the qualities of Ovations and what it means across the strings and up the neck. And I love the Ovation sound, but the Martin is just different. My 1537 sounds closer to a Martin than other O's, but it's still not THE sound I want to get sometimes.
More ice cream. :cool: |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | I too have a "token" Martin, a 000-16RGT I bought last spring. I preferred the rosewood sides and back to the mahogany. A 000-16SRGT (slothead, 12-fret-to-the-body, rosewood, gloss top) would be a MONSTER, but they don't make it.
It sounds good, but the 000-16RGT would go out the door before most of my Ovations, though, if I had to choose.
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | When acoustic guitar magazine gave Martin an award for best guitar under $1000,i fully agreed.I know some here were dissapointed because Ovation did not get a single award.Martin builds great guitars with all solid woods for around $700-$1000..They get great reviews by even the Martin snobs on the Martin sites who own $2500 and up Martins.. |
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Location: SE Michigan | I am a huge Ovation fan, but I also have to admit I was bit under whelmed by the stock Legend and Elite LXs that I have sampled. I recently purchased a 2005 Collectors model that has a unique bell-like tone to it, I think it sounds great, I recently put medium strings on it and it is even better. I also got to sample many guitars at the recent Ovation factory tour, and the one that blew my hair back the most (hands down) was the U681T, it was a tone monster!
But that being said, I also own a Martin D-28, it is my “big gun” for unplugged jams. It is loud and strong and the bass just makes your rib cage vibrate. The D28 doesn’t even have a pickup, for plugged in work I reach for my 2005C or my W597 Adamas.
The reason that I still own and play Ovations are (1) superb playability and comfort, (2) Plugged in performance and ease of use, (3) great durability and road worthiness. But other than a few stellar exceptions (like the U681T), the average Ovation is not going to win an unplugged tone contest against the average Martin or any other higher end all-wood guitar for that matter.
A recent observation, while seated and playing my D28, the guitar is canted at a angle and as a result the back does not contact my body. I think this is when this guitar is at it’s best. When standing with a strap the back is firmly resting against my stomach and I believe a good deal of tone is lost. Because the back of an Ovation is spherical, it cant really vibrate, all it can do is shape and focus tone forward.
Also I recently tried out a Martin 000-16 with a Fishman Aura built in, and wow, it had incredible amplified tone. It had a street price of around 1300. Unplugged it was pretty anemic. I was torn between it and the 2005C, I decided on the 05C but it was very close. The 05C performed well both unplugged and amplified.
Also a think a stock D18 has a street price of about 1350, which puts it right in line with a 05C or 597 Adamas. A D28 can be had for around 1550 which is still below what a U681T will cost you. I wonder how the two guitars would compare. |
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Location: Tennessee | Brian ... I'd love to live on your street! Prices for the D18 and D28 are $400 higher in these parts. |
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Location: SE Michigan | Stonebobbo, where do you shop? last time I checked Elderly a standard D18 was $1350 and a D28 was $1550. Like most manufacturers, Martin doesnt allow a dealer to advertise the real street price. Rule of thumb with Martins is 60% of list price equals real street price.
By the way, I think I am starting to gas for a U681T. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Stoney...I was thinkin the same thing. |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Most High volume Martin guitar dealers like Maurys music and My favorite guitars in florida will give you 40% off list.A D-28 lists for 2550.00 so it can be bought for $1530.00.A D-18 lists for $2249.00 and can be bought for $1350.00 including case. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Hmmm....I guess my pricing is high because I was looking at the D-28VS and the D-18GE. Don't know retail but they were definately a lot higher than the prices you just listed. |
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Location: SE Michigan | One other thought about comparing Ovations to Martins, A Dreadnaught guitar like a D28 is designed to be a bass monster with maximum internal volume, I dont think any O's come close to being like a dreadnaught in design.
I have also played quite a few smaller bodied all wood guitars (Martins and Taylors and Gibsons OH MY), that I thought sounded quite a bit thinner than some of the nicer Ovations that I have played. |
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Location: Central Florida | I gotta jump in here... As a LONG TIME Ovation player (34 yrs and counting), I must confess that I've also recently jumped on the Martin bandwagon. And, I must say, they're making a believer out of me. I now own two Martins (and am working on a third). They have a rich, warm tone that's all their own. But as great as they are, you won't find me dumping my Ovations and replacing them all with Martins. There's definitely room in the universe (and my collection) for both. What is it y'all say... It's all ice cream...
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Jeff, what's the 3rd your working on? |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | six string banjo |
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Location: Central Florida | Stephen,
Either a D-28 or HD-28.
Jeff |
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Location: San Bernardino, California | 12 string Banjo!!! |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Oh,
you meant the other Jeff |
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Location: SoCal | Bruce, two of the three reviews were not good...have you (or anyone else) played one?? |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | BrianT made an interesting observation, one that I have been thinking for a time, also....Ovations generally don't have the "punch" of a dreadnought....the mid-bowls certainly don't!!! I've always thought of the mid-bowls as "000" in sound. The 2005-ES gets in the ballpark to a dreadnought, IMHO.
This may be why I like Ovations....I find I generally am not fond of the sound of Martin Ds, I prefer 000s and OMs. The only big-body guitars that I really like are Gibson jumbos, especially the SJ-200(showing my folk/trad/country bent, I guess). Gibby Js have a nice mix of solid bottom-end and defined high-end.
Martin does make a wide selection of below-$1000 guitars that sound good. My 000-16RGT was $930. Heck, even the Formica-bodied 000-X1 sounds decent. You have to give Martin credit, they have figured out how to make inexpensive wooden guitars, built in the United States, that sound good.
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Location: Maryland, USA | I am a huge Ovation fan, but I also have to admit I was bit under whelmed by the stock Legend and Elite LXs that I have sampled. I recently purchased a 2005 Collectors that has a unique bell-like tone to it, I think it sounds great, I recently put medium strings on it and it is even better. I also got to sample many guitars at the recent Ovation factory tour, and the one that blew my hair back the most (hands down) was the U681T, it was a tone monster! Then I would indeed love to play a U681T.
The reason that I still own and play Ovations are (1) superb playability and comfort, (2) Plugged in performance and ease of use, (3) great durability and road worthiness. But other than a few stellar exceptions (like the U681T), the average Ovation is not going to win an unplugged tone contest against the average Martin or any other higher end all-wood guitar for that matter. Exactly. They probably sound better plugged in with the preamp changing the bass/mids/treble. They are very comfortable, and they look roadworthy.
Also a think a stock D18 has a street price of about 1350, which puts it right in line with a 05C or 597 Adamas. A D28 can be had for around 1550 which is still below what a U681T will cost you. I wonder how the two guitars would compare. I got my D-18 for that price, but the seller was an older man in his 70's (he is still listed as an official dealer though on Martin's website), but he said not to tell any other dealer, as anything below $1500 and they would be on his backs. He only holds a couple Martins at a time, but apparently he sells enough to keep his franchise.
Martin does make a wide selection of below-$1000 guitars that sound good. My 000-16RGT was $930. Heck, even the Formica-bodied 000-X1 sounds decent. You have to give Martin credit, they have figured out how to make inexpensive wooden guitars, built in the United States, that sound good. Yes, I heard a Martin D-15 awhile back and was surprised it sounded so good. It wasn't my D-18, but I was impressed with its sound for such an inexpensive guitar. |
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Location: Phoenix, AZ | Originally posted by Stephen P:
..... Hopefully in the future Ovation will make guitars with a booming bass. I don't know about you, but I get enough booming bass from the low-rider bouncing away next to me at almost every red light.
Personally, I hope Ovation never caters to a particular segment of the sound spectrum, but stays true to the entire sound spectrum.
P.S. If YOU want more bass, plug it in and adjust the amp and the onboard preamp to give YOU more bass. Then, you'll have comfort and the booming bass you require. |
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Location: SoCal | I've always found a discussion on sound interesting. Many people think that the sound of Martin D series is what a guitar should sound like. Fine. My Deluxe Balladeer, my 1537 Elite, my Adamas I 12 string, etc, don't sound like Martins. They are not trying to sound like Martins. But I like their sound. They have their own voice and they suit me.
Ice cream.... |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Good point Paul. Bottom line I guess I also prefer the sound of my Ovations over Martins in general or I wouldn't have 2 Martins and 8 Ovations. |
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Location: Tampa, FL | I remember when I first unboxed an Adamas I purchased last August. This was my first guitar since I sold an HD28 about six years ago. My first reaction was gross disappointment. The Ovation sound 'flat', thin, without the tonal quality my Martin had. ANd that was a very accurate first impression. Now a year later (almost) I find that I really like the sound of my Ovations. I like the eveness, I like the ease of use (although i've got something going on with my 2005 ES preamp that I have to figure out). All in all, I would have to agree with all that suggest there is a distinct difference between an O and an M (or any other guiatr for that matter) I just don't think there is a standard of 'better' that you can necessarily derive from this. There is also a distinct difference between my 2005 and my Adamas.
EDIT: I might also note that if you really want to know what your Ovation sounds like, you either have to play it through an Amp or in the bathroom. You real ycannot hear what the guitar sounds like while playing (a little disconcerting until you sort learn to live with the abstraction). I am rather surprised how well the preamp and piezo translate the Ovation sound when payed flat through a plain Jane stereo. That's my benchmark for what the Ovation sound is. |
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Location: Australia | I thinks it's pointless to try and compare a Martin dreadnaught with an Ovation. It's apples and oranges.
They have almost nothing in common apart from the fact that they are both acoustic guitars.
The early post made by Jeff W pretty much sums up the Ovation tone and the Ovation design objectives which are also different to Martin. |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | I dont think its pointless to compare Martins to Ovations or to other guitars for that matter.After all they are both acoustics and thats what guitar shoppers will do when they go to music stores, "compare" acoustic guitars.
And lets not forget that many years ago Ovations goal was to copy the sound of who? "Martin". They tried to match the sound of a D28 and Jim Richards prewar D-45.So, its not pointless at all to compare. |
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Location: Georgia USA | Originally posted by Old Applause Owner:
Although I'd love to know what you would think of a cedar-top S771 Balladeer (sold only at Guitar Center---but I think they are pretty much gone now).
Roger I work near two GCs, and they both still seem to have plenty. I have been to play them, especially before ordering my s771. They are nice, but once I saw the tear drop burst, I had to have it. (It's now a special order - $100 extra). |
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Location: Australia | Originally posted by samova:
I dont think its pointless to compare Martins to Ovations or to other guitars for that matter.After all they are both acoustics and thats what guitar shoppers will do when they go to music stores, "compare" acoustic guitars.
And lets not forget that many years ago Ovations goal was to copy the sound of who? "Martin". They tried to match the sound of a D28 and Jim Richards prewar D-45.So, its not pointless at all to compare. You miss my point.
My comments are aimed specifically at Stephens original post where he says he was dissapointed that the Ovations he played didn't possess the "booming sound" or "bassy ring" of his Martin Dreadnaught.
Of course we all compare guitars, my point is that you can never expect a smaller bodied fibreglass round backed guitar to sound like a larger bodied flat backed all solid wood guitar no matter how much you compare them. |
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Location: SoCal | Sam:
It's true that Ovation was using Martins as a benchmark, but they ended up with somethng different. Kinda like stealing licks from somebody. By the time you learn them, they are different than what you were trying to steal. |
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Location: Maryland, USA | I probably was being a little too hard, because the O's I played weren't meant to be Dreadnaughts.
Next time I go to GC (hopefully soon), I will keep playing them and doing everything you guys told me about them, I'm sure I will appreciate their softer sound.
ANd one day, I hope to play a really deep bowl so I can get a dreadnaught sound out of one of those oh so comfortable rounded backs.
EDIT: To JeffW
I believe you said that Martin's have a thinner sound up the neck. I played past the 5th fret quite a bit, I didn't hear my D-18 letting up. But like I said, I will replay the Ovations to see what you mean.
Thanks again guys |
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Location: Australia | I came across this and thought it was interesting :
"Our sonic goal is not to imate the X-braced dreadnought.The fundamental frequency of the resonating chambers, bracing patterns and roundback contribute to the characteristic Ovation sound"
David Bergstrom - Ovation
(Guitar Player Nov. 1993) |
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Location: Maryland, USA | Just so you know, I played a Legend LX (forget the number) at GuitarCenter today, and was very pleased with it.
However, my next guitar purchase (I finally purchased a new amplifier for gigging) is hopefully going to be a Les Paul.
Maybe in a couple years, we'll see ;)
Still waiting to try out an Adamas. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Stephen P.
Just so you know, I've been readin' your posts. |
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Location: Maryland, USA | Glad to know you care Jeff ^_^ |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | :cool:
More Music. |
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Location: Hicksville, NY | I may be getting off the subject with my reply, but I happen to like both Ms and Os. Mine may not be the top of the line that most ppl. post about (e.g. M D18, D28; O Elite, Legend, etc.), but I'm quite happy with it. Because of the unique sound, tone and playability from both guitars, I use it to my advantage by choosing which guitar to use given the song I plan to play or practice with.
Got my balladeer in a local music shop by accidentally trying it out (and falling in love with it!), while taking my niece's flute in for repairs. What's more, this O gave an admirable tone that was immediate, and it does not need to "open up." This O already sounds very good as it is, but it comes to life even more once it is plugged in (I currently use an Ibanez Troubador TA35 amp for it). I have been told that the top of most O's have the tendency to crack below the bridge. I only hope that is not the case. If this is true, is there any way to prevent it?
As for my M, at that time, I had to choose between the DM or the D15 (given the dough that I could afford to pay for). Even though the D15 was an all solid mahogany construction, I was not happy with its initial nasal-like tone, and I didn't seem to have the patience to wait for the guitar to "age" and "open up." As for the DM, while it's made from a spruce top with laminated mahogany back and sides, the nice tone I got from it was instant and immediate -- even fresh out of the box. It didn't take me long to make the decision.
Peace,
Gil |
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I played two Ovation Acoustics Today