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| I just bought a 1995 L718 Elite and so far I'm really loving it. I'm new to guitar and have been really enjoying the articles at http://www.guitarnoise.com. I've been doing some of the lessons as well as beginning to learn some of the beginner songs. However, today, I read an article on that site about buying a used guitar in which they say to stay clear of used Ovations, with a few exceptions (not listing what those are). The author states that the plastic doesn't age as well as wood??? Anyone care to comment? Here is the link to the article: How to buy a used acoustic guitar |
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Location: NJ | ". . Anyone care to comment? . ."
How about:
"Nick Torres is a fucking idiot" ??
Yes, you may quote me . . . |
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Location: Detroit area | Hmmm...I wonder if 'ol Nick ever PLAYED an old Ovation - or any Ovation for that matter. If the '79 Legend I just purchased from Noel is a typical "old" Ovation, this dude is way off base in his assessment. |
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Location: Toronto | That's a good one Cliff!! |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Cliff is right. It happens.
On the other hand, I suggest we tell anyone that can't figure it out to not buy any used Ovations. This should bring the prices down for those of us that know better because we actually picked them up and played them.
If I had a Reasons not to buy an Ovation list it would go like this:
- Nothing with the aluminum neck. Non repairable.
- Watch for unqualified repairs.
- Older finish subject to finish cracks if mistreated.
- Solidbody's with modifications may be reassembled into more usable intruments.
- buying one is like eating a potato chip. It can only lead to more. |
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| Well freekin put Cliff!
And I agree!
I personally have only seen a few minor problems with the ovation guitars I have owned or used. but I am far from an expert.... from what I have seen, it is the tops can split near the bridge with age, often this is just a finish crack.
But the important factor that is unknown and would ultimatly determine the durability of any guitar is; just how well the guitar was cared for or stored during it's life? Humidity can raise hell with wood and if strings were left on for a few years at full tension while stored this can cause undo stress also. Perhaps some musician left his Ovation out in the sun for several hours to bake before finding it "not" in it's case? Etc. Etc. Etc.
Any Guitar can develope cracks in the thin wood top, not just Ovations, and it stands to reason this is the weakest part of a guitar and the most critical for good sound. So as for the Plastic having problems??? Never seen it myself? Not buying a dimes worth of this guy's crap! Don't think this guy has a God*am clue what he is talking about. Unless he is trying to get the prices down on the older Ovations so he can buy some? Now this makes sense to me.
Randy |
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Location: SoCal | I read the article. Cliff's right. |
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Location: Tampa, FL | Problem with free advice is you are likely to get what you pay for...
That's my opinion...
you can have it...
...for free :eek: |
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Location: Carle Place, NY | Generally a good article but I disagree with the advice about old Ovations. Plastic may not age like wood but it also doesn't warp like wood. I have four O's, the oldest is an '81 and the newest is an '87. All are USA made with solid spruce tops that have aged wonderfully, partcularly the Custom Legend 1619 and Elite 1537.
My Custom Legend has a big crack going from the bottom of the bridge to the botton of the guitar. I "fixed" it with super-glue. Despite that, the guitar plays and sounds incredible; better than most of the new Ovations, Taylors, Martins and Tak's, that I've tried out at the local GC. I recently did a gig with it at a U.S. Veterans Hospital and the electronics worked flawlessly though my Crate CA125D patched into the PA.
IMHO the BEST value in guitars today is a used USA Ovation. I don't know why but the prices (on eBay) today are less than they were about a year ago. Perhaps articles like this one have had an effect. My personal preference is any deep bowl Legend or Elite. There are lots of them for sale on virtually any given day.
I also disagree with the advice to stay away from 12 strings. Maybe that's true with an all wood model, but not with an Ovation. I have a 20 year old 1755 Custom Balladeer that has perfect low action and still has a shim under the saddle.
The Ovations that were made in the 80's are incredible values. The spruce tops have aged and they sound better today than when they were new. Most are in great condition with rock stable necks. Most solid all wood guitars that are 20+ years old will require a neck re-set.
Don't let an article like this dissuade you from getting an older Ovation. |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Cliff is right on! :) |
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Location: Carle Place, NY | 98% of what is in that article is good advice.
I wonder if the "exceptions" to staying clear of older Ovations is limited to the refurbished models. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | My newest Ovation is a 1999. The oldest may be the 1976 Matrix. The 12 string Applause is probably about the same vintage. None of them have problems with the bowls. That is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard of.
I agree with MWoody's comment about the aluminum necks. The replaceable fretboard was an idea that never caught on. Therefore, if you have fretwear, you are out of luck. Mine, however, shows no fretwear after 30 years of moderate playing. I've seen a lot of Ovations and other guitars with cracked tops, but I've never seen one where the plastic back showed age. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I just read the whole article. Maybe what he is saying is that he likes old guitars because the wood has aged and Ovations don't have as much wood. "Plastic doesn't age as well as wood." Anyway, the theory is that the top, the soundboard is where you get the sound and the wood in soundboards should age the same under similar conditions. |
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Location: SoCal | re: "Any old Ovation, but there are exceptions. In general plastic doesn't age as well as wood."
haven't seen any "plastic tops and necks in the ones I have...as far as the tops, they just get better with age (and playing.) at least with an Ovation, we don't have the damage to the sides and back inherent with the older "wood boxes."
re: "Any old used twelve string. New used maybe, but the string tension over time is a force to be reckoned with."
an Ovation 12-str is not "any old..." it is the quality of an Ovation that makes it a great 12-string, older the better. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Cliff, he's a wanking spoo sucking fucking idiot. There, now that's a quote. |
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Location: Cicero, NY | Come on now, k2. Don't beat around the bush. If you've got something on your mind, just say it, man. You're amongst friends - say anything you feel the need to say just don't sugarcoat it! ;) |
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Location: NJ | ". . Cliff, he's a wanking spoo sucking fucking idiot. There, now that's a quote . ."
Yeah, but it's tough to fit it all on the marquee . . . ;) |
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| Perhaps W2 can sky-write it..... |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Could be he had one bad experience and is extrapolating? Without more though, he doesn't look like he knows what he's talking about. The people on this board are more expert than he is. Especially about guitars and I'm not boasting. Just being factual. |
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Location: south east Michigan | I just e-mailed Mr. Torres a friendly invitation to spend some time here at the OFC.
I signed it, "your friend, Cliff" (just kidding).
Anyway...if he shows up be sure to mind your manners and refer to him as Mister Fu*$*ing Idiot. ;) |
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Location: NJ | send me all your old adamas guitars torres says to stay away!!!!!!!!1 |
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Location: Parrish, FL | Just received my 22 year old 1537 from T28 this afternoon. F*cking Awesome!
BluesSailor |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Cliff, for the marquis we can just put "Fudiot" |
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Location: Australia | "Stay clear of any old Ovation"
It's always stupid to make sweeping statements and this one is particularly stupid. |
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| Well I was invited so here I am.
Did you actually read the article? I know at least one or two of you did, but I have my doubts about the rest.
Because I had something negative to say about old Ovations you write the whole thing off and call me a fucking idiot?
Did you read what I said? Did you pay attention to the context? You can't even quote me right.
I'm writing this to a broad audience making necessarily broad generalizations in some cases. I'm sure there is a fine broom handle fender out there too.
Here is what I wrote:
"Probably should steer clear: Any old Ovation, but there are exceptions. In general plastic doesn't age as well as wood. I do love the new ones though. If you find a refurb, that might be a great deal."
Did I say Ovations suck? No.
Did I say I love the new ones? Yes.
Did I say avoid at all costs? No.
Did I suggest there are exceptions to what I was about to say? Yes.
What I have seen in older Ovations is this, and no this isn't true of all Ovations:
1. There are lyrachord bowl to front issues that don't usually happen in all wood guitars.
2. To steal from an earlier post, the aluminum necks on the few Ovations that have them are a bear to fix.
3. I've seen a slightly higher percentage of the Ovation line in need of a neck reset earlier than all wood guitars.
4. I've seen more bridge issues with the early Ovations than I have in comparable all wood guitars.
Is this some major condemnation of the entire Kaman line? No. It's an article for people perhaps considering a used guitar and I'm just trying to tell them to be wary.
Am I the all knowing expert of guitar knowledge? No freaking way. Am I entitled to my own opinion based on my own experiences? Of course.
You want to call me an idiot for writing my observances? Be my guest. |
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Location: Orange County, California | Wow!! That didn't take long.... I read the article, and all it sounded like to me was that you are not endorsing that the inexperienced venture where they have little knowlege. Perhaps in the future, one could suggest checking with a group of "all knowing experts" as to whether or not to buy something questionable, from ANY manufacturer. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Welcome to OFC, Nick. I'm still wondering about your comment that plastic doesn't age as well as wood. I thought my interpretation was pretty generous, especially compared to some of the others. I admit to no experience with other brands, at least not since 1977, but why doesn't the "plastic" age well. |
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Location: Maryland, USA | He has legitimate reasons, everyone has their own opinion.
No offense to him, I just find the only fault is that he didn't really go into the specifics of the examples.
I guess he was trying to make it short and sweet though, so maybe I'm just being a little picky ;) . |
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Location: Georgia USA | Now you've gone and done it, Cliff. I feel like the whole gang just got dragged into the principal's office. Nick, there may be some who disagree with you - people at the OFC are VERY PASSIONATE about their O's, especially their oldies, but I appreciate your making sure you were heard correctly.
One thing you might add to the column is that the best way to get a quality older Ovation is to buy it from an OFCer. If you take the time to read the ForSale posts here, I'd bet you'd be amazed at the incredible deals we make for each other on great guitars. Anybody who shafted somebody here would pay for it.
I'd like to say above all, welcome, matics, to the club. You will never find any better information about your guitar than here. Post pix - we'd all like to see it.
Jas |
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| That was my point, just poorly put. I was pointing out that the wood in a guitar responds to vibration and age, both the back and the top. It should have been a separate comment and wasn't really related. If you like the sound, you like the sound. What the back is made of is irrelevant.
I don't have any issues with the back per se. I've seen a few guitars in for repair where the bowl has detached. Now I've only repaired perhaps a half dozen with this problem, but I can't think of a single all wood that I've had in to fix that had the same problem of top and back coming apart. Granted it's a limited sample I'm dealing with, but percentage wise it is significant in my experience.
By the way, up until recently I owned a 2002 Ltd with the African Cherry top. It was one of the best guitars I've ever played.
So yes I've owned and played Ovations. No I am not Ovation-phobic.
My apologies to anyone I offended. It certainly wasn't my intent. |
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Location: SoCal | Nick:
Thanks for coming by. Hope you'll hang around and contribute. I need to know somebody for a while before I call him a f*$kin' idiot (my brother comes to mind for some reason -- so does Clifford).
I read the whole article and while I don't agree with your comment on Ovation (but it is your experience so while I would dispute it, I can't argue with your personal experience), the overall article was interesting. I would have preferred to have seen more qualification on the Ovation comment, but you were covering a lot of ground.
I've got a small amount of experience with older Ovations (I own models from 1968-1993) and have found them to be remarkably sturdy with little need for adjustment. I would guess that some of the problems you've seen with old O's and their tops were possibly a result of owners thinking they were indestructible and not caring for them as they would for the all wood guitars. Just a thought. |
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Location: Orange County, California | Originally posted by GN-Nick:
I don't have any issues with the back per se. I've seen a few guitars in for repair where the bowl has detached. Now I've only repaired perhaps a half dozen with this problem, but I can't think of a single all wood that I've had in to fix that had the same problem of top and back coming apart. Granted it's a limited sample I'm dealing with, but percentage wise it is significant in my experience.
That's because (Being generalistic with a limited sample here) unless it's a WWII era Martin, No one would bother to reassemble an all wood guitar that needed the top re-attached. Someone on this list likes to tell a a story about a guy that was still actively gigging with a guitar who's top held on by duct tape after being blown off stage by the wind...TWICE!! how long would a wood body last with the top off of it? Would you keep playing it? If not for the damage to the neck as well, this would not have been a total loss.
Nick, you should know that Ovation/Adamas are some of the most repairable guitars around. Sometimes it's a perfect opportunity for a newbie to get a great deal on a high-end guitar even if they have to send it back to "The Mothership" for a little TLC first. |
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Location: SoCal | I don't back off of the comments concerning the 12-strings...I no longer have any wood box 12's. My experience included Martin and Gibson.
I have eleven 12's (to include two electric: the Preacher Deluxe and Hamer Newport) from 1968-2004.
I have had no neck issues with an Ovation due to string tension. I don't have to detune to protect the guitar.
As to the bowl v. wood sides/back...other than serious misuse, of the over 40 bowl guitars, never seen a problem with the bowl. Yet, seen many "woodies" with serious cracks or other damage from anything like a mike stand or dropping the guitar.
I also doubt if there is a better Customer Service out there...as a non-professional, I have had outstanding communication and service on my guitars. Can't say that for Martin when I had serious problems with a D-18 12-string.
And, although not an expert, I seriously doubt if "aging" noticeably improves the sides and back of a wood guitar. IMHO, the aging affects the top. |
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Location: SoCal | so, anyone have a real old classic Ovation that they want to get rid of...let me know, I will appreciate it. |
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Location: Maryland, USA | And, although not an expert, I seriously doubt if "aging" noticeably improves the sides and back of a wood guitar. IMHO, the aging affects the top. I always thought that it affected everything, because over time the moisture leaves the wood so there is less heavy wood to absorb it...that's the theory on violins, anyway. |
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| I think we worded our comments for the benefit of our own members! Your comments about "Plastic" can be quite the catalyst for discussion on this site. The traditionalists have long overlooked the sound qualities of these fantastic guitars because they can simply NOT get past the fact that these guitars are NOT made completely of wood. So this is an issue for some of us.
So those of us who have endured the many comments about "Plastic Guitars" yet have witnessed their durability and overall fantastic sound quality! We do take offence to anyone who thinks otherwise. We have the luxury of first hand experience many times over and so our opinions may lean a little toward the "protective" side of things. I can't speak for Cliff... I am sure he does not need me too... yet Cliff's comment was spoken from true "experience"...period...and that's worth more to me than anything I read in a magazine anyway! Cliff's comment does have a real funny side to it if you are an Ovation fan.
Now with that said..... I have to say; it speaks volumes to me when I see the guy responsible for the article actually taking the time to explain his comments to us bunch of Ovation fans!
Welcome to the site! and although I may still not agree with you I see your point and, alright I'll admit it, you might not be a Fuckin Idiot. But at the time it sure did seem like the perfect response to what seem to be offhanded opinions, printed in a national publication, concerning guitars we know to be sound, and of perfect design, no matter what the "age". I stand by my comments.
You have got to admit... there has to be something special about these guitars to have a support group like this for guitars that are not considered to be "mainstream". It is easy to be a fan of "Martin" or "Gibson" or "Taylor" guitars they have been considered the best there is for many many years.
For what it's worth... it's interesting banter.
Randy |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | In the immortal words of Oscar Wilde, there is only one thing worse than being talked about, it's not being talked about. |
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Location: Tampa, FL | Six Ovations with top separation problems.
Any guesses how many he didn't see that were perfect?
Because they are not all wood, do you think perhaps people expose them to more extreme conditions and expect them to withstand it without problem. Go to other brand specific websites and you'll hear people talking about babying their instruments. Some I think would readily consider installing a guitar humidor in their house (right next to the wine unit I guess). The fact that so many O's have stood up so well I think mitigates Nick's comment.
Send me your tired, your weary, your huddled shiny bowls. |
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Location: NJ | ". . Probably should steer clear:
Any old Ovation, but there are exceptions . ."
A rather broad-stroke generalization.
An article that's entitled with the phrase "How To. . " is usually geared toward the uneducated/uninitiated seeking information.
To make such a statement without even a DEGREE of specificity to someone unknowledgeable does nothing more than
instill (albeit “unintentional”) a stigma in the reader’s mind against Ovation guitars.
A VERY loose analogy would be to tell a school-age child to avoid older black people . . . but there ARE “exceptions”.
Any “old” Ovation.
Another broad-stroke generalization.
What is the criteria that designates an “old” Ovation? 1968-1972? 1976-1993?
In another broad generalization, you define OLD as being “. . at least 10 years old . . “
Following your formula, any Ovation built before 1995 should be dismissed.
Being that Ovation is almost forty-years-old, three quarters of Ovation’s entire line should be panned.
That’s a HELL of a lot of good-sounding guitars that you’re suggesting people “. . steer clear . .” of.
NO mention WHATSOEVER is made regarding sound qualities of deep-bowl vs. shallow-bowl guitars,
OR the fact that the USA-made models attain a somewhat higher degree of quality in respect to materials
and workmanship than their Korean-made counterparts – which unfortunately for the most part are more
readily available – and are somewhat indiscernible to the uninformed eye . . .
Based on that information, a novice acoustic guitar buyer could theoretically “pass” on GREAT sounding
1975 deep-bowl Legend in favor of a 1998 shallow-bowl Celebrity simply by following your advice.
“. . In general, plastic doesn’t age as well as wood . . .” duh.
In general, plastic doesn’t AGE.
The properties of a wood-backed guitar change with age . . .“opens up” . . . . “mellows” . . . “overtones” . . . blah.
Again, you’re panning the guitar based on something that it wasn’t DESIGNED to do, and completely dismiss
(or rather ignore) the fact that a parabolic bowl is going to reflect sound much more effectively than a box,
or the fact that the Ovation will be producing notes of consistent volume/definition ALL THE WAY up the neck.
I’ve (we’ve) argued these points before with the all-knowing “WoodBack Cognoscente” with their toasted-wheat
underpinnings, and “rich, chocolate overtones” on their cowboy chords. If that’s what they like/want – more power to ‘em.
“It’s All IceCream”, and one shouldn’t dismiss an entire line simply because it’s not their favorite “flavor”.
Granted, I’m arguing “semantics” here to a HUGE degree. I realize that.
I’m just trying to illustrate the point that a newbie acoustic consumer is going to find your “HowTo” article,
read the line ". . Probably should steer clear: Any old Ovation, but there are exceptions . ." ,
NOT know what the “exceptions” might be, NOT know what defines “old”, and when he sees a potentially GOOD instrument
hanging in the Used section of a music store, his/her first sub-conscious inclination could very well be to “Steer Clear”.
Think about it.
On a personal note, Nick:
My initial comment was NOT intended as a personal attack on you. I don’t know you.
That being said, I apologize for using your name in my comment.
Yes, I am somewhat passionate and defensive when it comes to Ovation guitars.
I (unfortunately) have many years of experience having to do so, and sometimes I get a bit “touchy”.
I just want it known publicly that my comment was in NO WAY a personal slam against you.
It’s just that “generally” . . .
. . . I find people who write “How To” articles (and guitar articles) to be fucking idiots . . .
. . . but there are exceptions.
- cliff
Oh, and Mr. Moody;
While I haven’t met your brother (yet), I can’t speak for him, but as for myself:
“Lick my crack”. |
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Location: SoCal | Gross. |
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Location: Carle Place, NY | Cliff:
CHILL OUT! There are a whole lot of things that should get you more pissed off than that article
I don't like to get into politics on this site but the nomination of John Roberts to the US Supreme Court has my blood boiling. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Well put Cliff.
I have to beleive that proportionaly, there are many more "old" Ovations still in use than their all wood counterparts. This simply because their inovative design lends itself to an instrument that will out last many others. |
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Location: NJ | No need to "chill" (do people still SAY that??)
Not pissed in the least.
Asked for a comment/opinion, expressed it.
(click.) |
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Location: SoCal | What's the problem with John Roberts (besides the fact that he's not a liberal)? |
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Location: Carle Place, NY | Sorry I mentioned it.
(double-click) :) |
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Location: NJ | Let's please leave politics out.
I have COMPLETE confidence that Your President will nominate the best Judges that money can buy . . . |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Cliff,
Good post. Lots more informative than your earlier one. Now I like your earlier one better. |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Originally posted by cliff:
Let's please leave politics out.
I have COMPLETE confidence that Your President will nominate the best Judges that money can buy . . . Uh oh...don't get 'em started. ;) |
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Location: Malden, Massachusetts | Well, by the time I got to Cliff's final summary, I must admit I was a bit weary. I have yet to read the article in question, but I applaud this gentlemen for signing on and defending himself.
However, if I were on trial for murder, I'd have Cliff for my lawyer in a heartbeat.
Plastics, on the other hand, have enhanced our lives greatly - but there remains that stigma from childhood:
"Hey...my thing just broke...."
"Whadya expect.....it was only plastic...." |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Going back to guitars....I DO have an old Ovation 12-string (1981 1118 Glen Campbell slothead) with a neck twist.....got it that way from a less-than-candid eBay seller. But with advice from other members on this board, I was able to adjust it to be nicely playable.
Roger |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | I heard the guy comes from Buffalo and Indiana. Worked in a steel mill. His downside is that he went to Harvard and worked for the government most of his life. Mixed bag. No one's perfect. Only time will tell. |
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Location: NJ | So . . . how are those considered credentials to write guitar articles?? |
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| Jesus.... I can only imagine what the next article this guy writes about Ovations will sound like!
Man I got to make it to the next Fan Club Meet in Hartford!
If true "Character" makes the best musician. This bunch has got to be some of the best around! Your my kind of Nutz.
Randy |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | LOL maybe they're the credentials to be a Supreme! |
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Location: NJ | Why? is Dianna gettin' the group back together?? |
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Location: Vermont USA | Speaking of the Supremes :eek:
The Supreme Corut today has decided that anyone who coments on a guitar they have never played will receive a Three month stay at a Correctional Facility near them.
Got to love me
Paul :cool: |
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Location: Vermont USA | Court comments |
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Location: NJ | well let's face it. saying an Ovation is made of plastic just enrages owners and fans of the guitar. I am sure if you went into a vette club and said plastic cars did not age as well as metal you would get the same reaction.
Ultimately why should we be surprised? people have been talking down Ovations since they started. We also have to admit that there area a bunch of Ovations out there with finish and top cracks out there. Any more than any other brand? probably not but they are more noticeable on an Ovation since only the top is wood.
I also find it interesting that he did not even mention Adamas guitars. I guess that carbon fiber does not age well either.
well I guess it is another case of chocolate and vanilla, today I pick strawberry. |
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| I've got a '73 Artist Balladeer that I bought new.
Nothin' wrong with My Ovation! |
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| Yes, yes I know I shouldn't have said plastic. I apologize.
No I didn't mention Adamas, but I didn't mention thousands of guitars.
Yes I have played Ovation. Yes I have owned Ovation. No there is nothing wrong with your Ovation.
I replied to a post on Guitarnoise linking to here saying that people should come here to ask you all questions if they were thinking of an Ovation.
Sorry, but that's the best I can do. |
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Location: SoCal | Aw man, I wanna talk politics! |
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Location: Indiana | I wonder what Nick would say about Steinberger guitars and basses. Are they just plastic,too? And something to stay clear of? I guarantee you that the folks at steinbergerworld.com are just as passionate about their guitars as we are.The new ones and the old ones.
And yes, Al, Corvette owners are like that, too.
Bill |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Now that you mention it, I never liked them plastic cars. Real cars should be made out of metal. Except for the carbon fiber Carrera GT that I'm going to get when I win the lottery. |
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Location: Waxahachie, Tx | I just hope no one starts crackin on Indian Blankets!
The just drives CRAZYZ!!!! |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | The most amazing thing about this entire thread to me is that I actually saw Cliff almost write a mini-article (instead of his usual 2 lines of prose). Now if we could get W2 to write more than 1 line, we could all go to heaven!!
Cliff, I did like what you had to say....very elegant and eloquent! |
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Location: SoCal | when the golf pros go back to wood shafts, I'll consider a wood box.
if we lived in the past, we'd still be walking (or crawling.) was going to say "swinging by our tails" but I have heard stories. |
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| Perhaps you should read the article. I'm happy to discuss it after you have.
What would I say about Steinbergers? Probably not a good choice for a beginner considering a used guitar.
Which trem are you talking about? Are you including knock offs? The first go round or the latest? |
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Location: Vermont USA | Aw man, I wanna talk politics!
Dear Moody no you don't
Paul |
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Location: SoCal | Sure I do! I luv ticking people off. It's one of the things a professional thug does best. |
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| So if you had $500 to plonk down on a used older Ovation, what model would you pick and why?
Remember not to use big words, I'm an F'in Idiot. :) |
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Location: Vermont USA | Careful Paul somebody will lay hands and feet on ya. Then we will have to pray for your healing. :D
Paul |
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Location: Chicagoland | Jeez guys. I never knew the OFC community could be so callous and misunderstanding.
You have to realize that most people don't like Ovations. We are a unique breed.
And yeah guys, please read the whole article. Besides the fact that it has useful information, you will realize that he wasn't bad-mouthing Ovations at all.
Sorry you had to encounter the OFC like this, Nick. We really aren't such a bad bunch.
And OFC guys- Nick isn't a bad guy either. I've talked to him on AIM several times and he's always ready and willing to give help, advice and input on all things guitar and musical. |
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| Thank you sir.
I must admit I deserved a good portion of what I got. |
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Location: SoCal | Paulcc -- several people have tried to lay hands and feet on me. Been a long time since anybody's been successful.
Nick, with $500, I'd look for a mid 80's Legend, deep bowl, with a cutaway. A great sounding guitar acoustically, and it would have the OP24 preamp. There are a few of us that think that was one of the best. |
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Location: SoCal | Nick,
From actual purchases over the last 6 months...shiny bowl Deluxe Baladeer, Country Artist, and the 1127 Glen Campbell Artist.
About eight months ago, shiny bowl 12-str Balladeer and Thunderhead.
Prior to that, three Adamas I's, a 1776 Patriot, and a Country Artist.
These are just my pre 1980 purchases, some pre 1970.
And, some new as well as some from 1980 to present. |
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Location: Vermont USA | Moody you are blessed.
Love ya
Paul
Nick I have played and owned some all wood guitars. I am new to Ovation but so far it's all good the balance of tone and volume pluged-in and unpluged, well all I can say is awesome. Also all of these people here are good even Cliff, I almost feel close to him in some weird way. I think you would like him also after all he's not a drummer.
Paul |
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Location: SoCal | Paulcc, of course I'm blessed. I've got people like you, whom I've never met, yet we're still friends. How can life get better?
Just don't lay hands and feet on me. Been years since I've seriously scuffled. I might cry. Ugly sight. |
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Location: Cicero, NY | As has been said before in this thread, I also appreciate you sticking around to get a more complete perspective of your writings, GN-Nick. However, and once again, it becomes very apparent that bells are hard, if not impossible, to unring.
It's appreciated that you have recognized another view to your article and have even apologized for some of it. It would be great to see that in writing (and not just here in the OFC boardroom) as well.
I hope there's more to be written elsewhere because (and I come from a publishing background so I have some experience here) people have a tendency to believe what they read. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Nick,
I have owned my Balladeer for almost 35 years now. Still love it. If I did not have one I'd have to buy one.
Most here have seen the picture below but I thought I would post it for our new member and "special guest". Thanks for sticking around Nick.
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Location: Indiana | Originally posted by GN-Nick:
Perhaps you should read the article. I'm happy to discuss it after you have.
What would I say about Steinbergers? Probably not a good choice for a beginner considering a used guitar.
Which trem are you talking about? Are you including knock offs? The first go round or the latest? Most of my experience is with Steinberger basses.I have played a Steinerger Spirit XT (XL shaped) and found it to be not bad at all for the $$$. These can be had brand new for around $300. While I don't really have a need for one now-I have several of the graphite/graphite-necked ones-I do recommend them for someone in that price range. As far as their guitars go, I was referring to mainly the Spirit Line or Hohners(basically the same). These would have the R-Trem. Yea, I know, it's a lesser trem than the S or TransTrem, but we are talking about beginners, right. Best thing to do is lock it down, anyway. Again we are talking about a $300(sometimes less) guitar.....brand new.
If I were to have $500 to spend on a used Ovation? I have a matched pair of 85 collectors series(6 & 12 string) that I paid less than $400 for each of them.They are 20 years old and are both in excellent(but played) condition. Would I spend $500 on a used Martin or Taylor...you bet I would. Unlike some here, I really like Martins and Taylors....at the right price.Matter of fact, my acoustic bass is a Martin. I just happen to like Ovations more. Just personal taste, I guess.
FWIW, I did read your article today(took that long to find it).I didn't find it insulting nor did I get the opinion I was reading an article by a ...well you know.I did, IMHO, feel I was reading an article that,like most here, felt was bad advice. Or at least not complete.
Bill |
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Location: Vermont USA | Paulcc, of course I'm blessed. I've got people like you, whom I've never met
Dear Moody you met my wife Eva and I at the OFC tour last month! Old guy with a beard, remember.
Paul |
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Location: SoCal | The minister! Of course! And you are a friend. I greatly enjoyed meeting you and your wife.
It's been a long day in front of the computer instead of out on the street dealing with bad guys and traffic. My senses are dulled. I apologize for not remembering. |
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Location: Vermont USA | Paul it is better to be in front of a computer than messing with bad guys. Not as much money but your safe.
Paul |
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Location: closely held secret | So get out there and stir up some trouble. |
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Location: SoCal | Tomorrow..... |
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Location: NJ | Welcome Nick!
Hope there's no hard feelings (like I said, it was nothing personal).
Thanks fer stickin' around . . .
$500?
If I had $500 to spend on used Ovation, I'd probably go with Moody on the Legend - only I'd be compelled to go with a shallow bowl - to go with my s/b Legend12 for gigs. My deep bowl '76 CBalladeer is starting to get banged up a bit and (being that it was my first guitar) I'd like to keep it home.
If not that, maybe a mid-bowl EliteT (again, for gigs).
After that, a CountryArtist (if I could find one).
After that, a MagnumII bass.
After that, . . . . . (you get the idea . . . )
Again, Welcome! |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Well if Nick can apologize for saying "plastic" than I should apologize for dumping all the blame on him for not giving Ovations the respect they deserve.
Nick, hang around for a while and it may lead to few articles. We always have opinions and excel at spending other people's money on guitars.
For under $500 I would have to go with the Elite T and a Viper for choices. Balladeers are still the best value out there too. |
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Location: massachuetts | I have a 1980 1157-7 sounds better every time I pick it up. And even better when my step son plays it. Old O's rock!! |
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Location: Carle Place, NY | Originally posted by GN-Nick:
So if you had $500 to plonk down on a used older Ovation, what model would you pick and why?
Remember not to use big words, I'm an F'in Idiot. :) A Legend,1980 - 1995, in good condition:
1117-deep bowl acoustic
1717-deep bowl electric/acoustic
1767/1777-deep bowl electric/acoustic CA
1867-shallow bowl electric/acoustic CA
Why? These are the best sounding, best playing, best made, most durable, guitars out there for the money and the electric/acoustic models have tried and true electronics that work flawlessly. |
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Location: Carle Place, NY | I didn't realize that a used Elite T can be had for $500, considering they've only been out for a few years and they go for $750 or so new. They are a bit non-conventional looking, but play and sound great and have really superior electronics with an on-board chromatic tuner. Here's one on eBay now for $499, shipping included:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7338212219&categ... |
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Location: Upper Left USA | I was a sucessful Bottom Feeder in the land of ebay on one for $435 total. There was some risk involved. |
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| I am not sure about $500 perhaps a nice old Legend? But for $600 a just saw a couple of real nice older "Custom Legend" Deep Bowl's go on Ebay. I think that will be my next choice if the timing is right? I have been an Adamas fan for some time and have passed over other Ovations to find what I was after in the past.
I have recently heard the sound from an older Legend and I was quite impressed. I think so far it has been the standard/deep bowl that sounds the best to me in any Ovation.
So Nick! Thanks for sticking around. Very pleased to see your not another one of the traditionalists who love to trash Ovations when they get the chance. I have read your article and it's not bad at all, really, but I am still amazed and a just a little skeptical that you ran into so many Ovations with the problems they had. This does not fit any pattern anyone in this group has seen. And the collective members of this group, through the years, have been given.... bought..... sold..... repaired..... borrowed.... and played more Ovations than any other bunch anywhere. So I go with what ever the concensus is in here before I listen to advice from anywhere else except the "Factory".
For an interesting article you might consider that each style Ovation guitar made has some pretty unique characteristics and with one company you can find Acoustic Guitars that satisfy so many different tastes for overall sound and price ranges.
Change the bowl size and you change the sound, Acoustically and also electronically. Change the material makeup of the Top and you once again change the sound acoustically and electronically. and On and On for each type of Ovation guitar. Now there are not many companies that can do that. And then consider the overall looks of each type.. it is mind boggling to see just how many different colors and woods and trim and materials these have and then there are so many different sound hole configurations, neck styles, etc. etc.! Personally I can't think of any company that comes close. It would make an interesting read. Of this I am sure.
For what it's worth... Thanks Nick
Randy |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | I'm going to have to give Nick credit for having the stones to not only, join the club and post replies concerning his article, but also for his willingess to both, declare a bit of a mia culpa and then to ask us for information on the topic. Nick tip of the hat on those accounts...
...about the atricle...maybe Cliff would be willing to be your Editor. Just a thought.
and let's call it water under the bridge.
As to used O's...
You can get deep bowl "A" braced Legends for 500 bucks and "X" braced Balladeers obtained for under 500.
Elite T's are hot. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Last OT submission:
1778T for $499 |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Under $500? I got my Collector's for $500 and love it, but it isn't the best sounding O out there. The 1713 at $375 was a deal I couldn't pass up and I'd highly recommend it for anyone that wants a nylon string. I haven't paid over $500 for any of mine and for a beginner, I'd go with something like a Balladeer for $200 to $300. My daughter just started with an Ibanez AEL20 that is a beautiful guitar, but when I got her an amp, the electronics didn't work. If recommendations are made based on anecdotal evidence, I'd say steer away from Ibanez, but I wouldn't do that. |
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Location: NJ | Jeff; I don't think Nick needs (nor wants) me as an editor . . . he does just fine on his own.
Besides, I don't muck with other people's stuff.
I get into enough trouble on my own, thank you . . . |
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Location: Malden, Massachusetts | Before we get too far over this madness - go back and reread Cliff's "riot act" one more time....only picture those words coming out of that face.
Yikes. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Can you get W2 to do your Spell Chuck'in? |
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| All righty then, let me think how to do this...
I'll start the article with an explanation of how I got into this. I'll correct the obvious error(s) in the prior article. Next I'll post some questions here and include the answers interview style. Then I'll see if I can get a explanation of the various model numbers.
Finally I'll let the readers know which of the sub $500 OLDER Ovations I bought.
Any other ideas?
Nick |
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Location: SoCal | Nick, you're putting a big smile on my face. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | GN-Nick. you seem to fit in well here with all us fudiots. But you may graduate past all us as you keep making sense. Nothing personal meant, was just dying to use the new word. (I've spent the last week dealing with at least 7 different lawyers. It's my new favorite word)
I think Hizzonor should take a run at the court. We need some guitar players up there! |
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Location: south east Michigan | Nick,
After I sent you the e-mail to invite you here I started to worry about your reaction to our...shall we say...enthusiasm. I'm glad things turned out alright. |
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Location: GA USA | That is a mighty good idea, Nicky. And should make for some interesting reading, too.
I might also mention that I've enjoyed guitarnoise.com for a while, and recommend it to beginners - and others.
Jas
P.S. Yup... I changed my name today. It might be a tad late since I've been putting my real name out on the web for so long, but I'm gonna try and be more anomynous while still using my website to get cartooning work.
CaptainLovehandles.com |
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| Okay, here are my initial "requirements"
1. Gotta be used.
2. Solid top. What are my choices here?
3. I care more about acoustic than amplified sound.
4. I like fast necks.
5. I don't care about pick marks or the occasional chip. They suggest character.
6. A case would be nice.
7. $500ish is the limit.
8. I'd much prefer an older USA model to a newer overseas if possible.
Anyone want to give me a hint as to what the incredible number of model numbers mean? |
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Location: GA USA | That's brilliant, Nick. You're gonna wind up with a $2000 guitar just so somebody can prove a point. |
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| Dammit, I've been figured out. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Nick, since they're all good, best bet would be go here http://www.ovationguitars.com/?fa=series&sid=349 and see what turns your fancy. Then go here http://www.adamasguitars.com/?fa=history and see what features you like. On the website look at the features of some of the new ones. Once you've got something in mind, ask here if there are stores people can recommend in your area. Go check out the new ones or any old ones in the store. Then scan ebay and see if any of the old or new turn up, then buy. Beware of this place though, they're really good spending other peoples money. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Originally posted by GN-Nick:
Okay, here are my initial "requirements"
1. Gotta be used.
---not hard
2. Solid top. What are my choices here?
---Legend, Elite, Balladeer, all commonly available under 500 with solid tops
3. I care more about acoustic than amplified sound.
---All the above were made with deep bowls which would be my choice for pure acoustic (certain models don't even have electronics)
4. I like fast necks.
---they all have very fast necks
5. I don't care about pick marks or the occasional chip. They suggest character.
---Good
6. A case would be nice.
---most likely
7. $500ish is the limit.
---definitely
8. I'd much prefer an older USA model to a newer overseas if possible.
---all the guitars mentioned are USA O's
Anyone want to give me a hint as to what the incredible number of model numbers mean?
---Go to the refernce section of this board to get info on this. The Ovation Guitar website also has a section called, "cracking the code" that will give you similar info. |
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| Well I will be damned!
This thread sure turned out much differently than I thought it would.
Well done!
Cliff... Nick My hats off to ya!
Interesting to the end I'm sure!
Nick; you have at least one new reader for your web site and I sure hope you will visit this site when ever you have questions about Ovations.
Good article your pursuing, Used guitars are always hard to find good information on before buying.
Randy |
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Location: Cicero, NY | (Shhh - don't tell Nick yet but I see him very close to riding a llama into Hartford while strumming an O uke in 2006 and it's really not that pretty a picture) ;) |
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Location: Parrish, FL | Great, I've just started building my collection and Ol' Nick here is going to end up driving the prices through the roof with all this publicity. :p
Better start building FASTER! :eek:
Blues |
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Location: Orlando, FL | This thread has been great to just sit back and read! Nick, you went from a fudiot to a reasonable classy guy in about 3 posts! Good to see sombody poke the hornets nest and then stick around and make friends with the bugs. Look forward to reading more of your stuff here and over at guitarnoise. |
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Location: SoCal | Nick:
I stand by my earlier recommendation. Get a mid 80's deep bowl Legend. With the A bracing pattern introduced in about 1980, they have a great warm, full sound. They can be had for about $500 on ebay (saw one a few weeks ago that was a cutaway and went for $300 -- an absolute steal!) The necks are fast, and with the K bar in them, are rock solid. Put medium gauge strings on them and you'll have a cannon.
This is on ebay now, but it's in the high range of the current market
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7337256594&categ...
Note the lack of the truss rod cover. That means it has a K bar in the neck which came in at the same time as the A bracing pattern (my personal opinion is that the 1970's Ovations with the VT pattern just don't sound good at all -- almost anything past 1980 is going to be a great sounding guitar). |
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| Moody Any recommendations for a Custom Legend? 1980 and newer good for these as well?
Randy |
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Location: SoCal | As long as it's in good shape, any CL from the 70's thru the mid 90's (just deep bowls) is a great guitar. They've always had the A bracing (the Legends didn't get it until somewhere around 1980).
But with a $500 budget, a good CL may be tougher to find. |
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| I was figuring $600 but hey with all the focus on used Ovations we will all pay higher prices!
Thanks a lot Nick!
I saw real nice Black CL go on ebay just a while back. Beautiful guitars Just like Paul Simons.
I'll keep my eyes open.
Thanks
Randy |
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Location: NJ | Y'might wanna throw a 12-banger into the mix as well. In Nick's article he poo-pooh'ed the idea of buying an (ahem) "old" 12-string.
While I agree that there are a lotta "BentBox" old 12's out there. There's also a LOT of GREAT-sounding old O'12's that're STILL rock-solid (and can prove to be an "Exception to the Rule"). |
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Location: south east Michigan | Nick,
I'm not suggesting that you "cherry pick" your purchase, but give it a little time for the right example to come along. Remember....deeeeep bowl if you want to test that unplugged sound.
My '70 Balladeer is a perfect example. But ya caaaaan't have it! Mine was made made before you could "plug in".
I will also start dropping in on guitarnoise.com to see what's up. |
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Location: Chicagoland | "While I agree that there are a lotta "BentBox" old 12's out there. There's also a LOT of GREAT-sounding old O'12's that're STILL rock-solid (and can prove to be an "Exception to the Rule")."
Like mine. 12 string Balladeer from the 80s, plays better than just about any other guitar I've tried, espeically other 12-strings I've tried. :) |
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Location: Carle Place, NY | As usual, Mr. Moody is right on target.
I was the buyer of that cutaway Legend for $306, plus $40 for shipping. It was an absolute steal.
Once again, the model numbers for the Legends are:
1117- Deep bowl acoustic (No truss rod cover assures A bracing)
1717- Deep bowl acoustic/electric
1767 or 1777- Deep bowl CA acoustic electric
A bit harder to find for less than $500, but can certainly be had for $500 to $550 are the Elite multihole models. All have the K bar and sound great but a different "flavor" than the Legend.
1718- Deep bowl acoustic/electric
1768- Deep bowl CA acoustic electric
S778- Deep bowl CA acoustic/electric. Essentially the same as the 1768, but with some cost cutting. Two piece neck replaces the five piece neck and no fret markers on the fretboard. Some also have plainer designs on the epaulets around the soundholes.
Some more notable mentions, but not really older models are:
S771- Deep bowl CA acoustic electric Balladeer.
1778T- New style Elite. Multi soundholes on the bass side only, no epaulets, textured finish.
My personal favorite from all of the above is the 1717 Legend. I think the cutaway version doesn't sound as full as the non-cutaway. Same goes for the 1718 Elite which is very similar to the much heralded 1537 Elite. Both the 1717 and 1718 have excellent acoustic tone. The electronics, even if you don't really need it, are icing on the cake.
For some reason, the natural tops sell for higher prices generally on eBay. The black models usually sell for less with the sunburst models somewhere in between. |
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| Excellent posts, I've created an ebay search.
These two show up in the right range so far.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7338470304&categ...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7338009423&categ...
There is also a 1617 on ebay now, looks like it's in pretty good shape. Anyone have experience with that? |
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Location: SoCal | Nick:
The first one looks good. Deep bowl, OP24 preamp. No cracks in the top. Ought to be a great acoustic sound. The second is a mid depth bowl. Still a good sound, but not as deep.
I'd stay with the first over the second.
A 1617 is probably a 1970's guitar, but if you're talking about this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7337359506&categ...
it doesn't have a truss rod cover and therefore probably has the A bracing (even tho' it was built in '79). Looks like a very fine instrument.
You know Nick, I wish you were in So Calif. I'd like for you to play the Ovations at my house, and I could get a number of other O's together for you. You'd enjoy it and probably learn a lot about why we all love them so damned much. |
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| Okay, I educated myself on the numbering system.
Question for the Article, (multiple responses are encouraged) :
What are the main differences between Applause, Celebrity, and whatever the third category is? |
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| Next question:
What types of top wood are available?
Mahogany?
Koa?
Adirondack?
Etc. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Applause: The lowest entery level model. Aluminum neck. A friend of mine has had one for more than 20 years. It went with him from ship to ship while in the Navy. I has a bunch of finish cracks and has seen some very rough handling, but still plays and sounds okay.
Celebrity: Made in Korea. Replaces the Applause line as the entry level model. All laminated tops. I would say that many, if not most are shallow bowl models. Although it's entry level, the neck still has the same Kaman Bar truss rod system that makes them very stable. I have played a few that for some reason or another sound as good a USA made guitar. One beef that the Fan Club has had is that the Celebrity models look exactly like the USA models. And they even go by the same names like "Elite". We beleive that the USA models should look different enough to let the shopper know that he is trying a superior instrument.
Woods?.....Historicly Ovation has used Sika Spruce. Some limited edition models and collector series have used cedar or some other exotic wood but not very often. The 2005 Collectors uses Adirondak Spruce.
I'm sure otherws will have more input. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | 2005CE is "Engleman" Spruce
Other top woods...
-Walnut (Angel step)
-Koa
-Cedar
-African cherry?
-I don't know of any mahogany top O.
-Both Brazilian and Honduran Carbon Fiber |
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Location: SoCal | What are the main differences, both in grain and tone, between the Brazilan and Honduran Carbon Fiber? |
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Location: south east Michigan | ****2005CE is "Engleman" Spruce****
I stand corrected. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Honduran has a linear gain structure, allowing for transverse vibrational characteristics, giving the tone a very focused harmonic tone.
Brazilian has a multi-directional grain structure which moves in more concentric fashion giving a more even and uniform tone.
Of course, there are subtle variations in each due to harvest in any particticular year...draught and flood cycles will effect the gain structure as growth in any such seasonal extreme will vary. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Originally posted by Slipkid:
****2005CE is "Engleman" Spruce****
I stand corrected. But, Slipkid's discourse on Applause and Celebrity is spot on. |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Addition to Brad's paragraph on Applause....later Applause models (1982-1983 on or so) don't have the aluminum neck/fretboard (with extruded foam neck backing and headstock).
I own an Applause AA-14 from 1976, and it is in beautiful shape, doesn't have ANY finish cracks. You would have a hard time telling it from new. The chipping paint on the aluminum fingerboard is the only giveaway and I patch it periodically.
2001 Collectors has a redwood top. 2002 Collectors has an African cherry veneer on the top(I believe it is birch laminate beneath). Current Celebrity model CC01 has a mahogany top option.
Roger |
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Location: Tennessee | My 1311 (USA Ultra) has a mahogany top.
My 2000 Collectors is Lacewood. |
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| Question on cracking the code:
How can anything be a 1777
That would be Deep, Cutaway Electric, Shallow bowl.
Am I missing something? Deep and Shallow? |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Nick,
The people on this board are "experts", and you can probably find a slew of stuff on the differences in kaman products by just doing a search of this website, I'd recommend after you've consulted the brain trust here, you check in with the mother ship. If you tell them you're writing an article I'm pretty sure they'd love to talk to you. I think Rick Hall's office will be able to steer you in the right direction. |
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Location: Tennessee | The code kinda went out the window years ago. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | It's either all Bill's fault or he's the one that got it straighterer! It probably got messed up during different periods of who is in charge, e.g., Marketing/Luthiers/Engineering.
I think the Luthiers are back in charge now, hence the U168T thing - great guitar/lousy number. |
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Location: SoCal | did anyone mention bearclaw? |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by stonebobbo:
The code kinda went out the window years ago. It's really more like guidelines, anyway... |
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| I gotta tell you "Deep Shallow" is not much of a guideline.
So the only way is to look at each model individually at the Ovation home page? |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | The Applesause and Celibrity coexisted and still do. The Applesause was sold by the Bruno and Coast Wholesale folks(read any non Ovation dealer) and the Celibicy was sold through the Ovation sales force(read Ovation authorized dealers).
This kinda all went out the window when the sales forces and all the divisions got rolled into one coordinated company, the late 80's I think they still will sell an applesause to anyone who can write a check and Celibicys to "Authorized Ovation Dealers" only.
Both entry level products.
for the 1777
1-guitar
7-ac/electric, an op-24
7-deep cutaway (or is this shallow and 6 would be deep?)
7-legend level of dress
I think that's right. |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Yes, Nick, the model "code" was only good until about 10 years ago or so. A 1777 is a mid-depth bowl Legend.
Although, I suppose, (deep + shallow)/2 = mid :D It averages out.....
Roger |
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| I did go and play several at GC yesterday. 1777, a new LX -$1300, and the 2002 Ltd.
The LX was amazing. If you have a chance, go play one. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Nick....did you know.....
That part of the LX upgrades is a new bowl material? They have added microscopic "glass spheres" to the lyrachord. This makes it 30% lighter and more acousticly active. I have always got a kick out of feeling the bowl vibrate against my ribs. Now..even more!
And yep....the LX is a lot of bang for the buck.
.
BTW...I think Nick needs to get on the list for the traveling "History of Ovation" book. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Yep, he could use some time with the book. |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Yes, the LXs are good. 2002 Ltd.????? Do you mean the 2002 Collectors???? If so, a great guitar. I have one, it sounds nice. I suspicion that it has some early prototype LX features(witness the truss rod cover).
Roger |
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Location: Tennessee | 2002 Ltd. might be one of the Celebrity models they do each year. |
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| yes sorry, collectors. Definitely not the Celebrity |
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Location: SoCal | Seems that wherever Nick is located - we should have a little get-together...bring in about 30 or so Ovations and Adamas. Help him out and let him try some of the best...old and new. |
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| Anyone near Washington DC, Alexandria VA. area?
I'm happy to travel a bit. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | They also made a Classic model with Spanish Pine. My 99 Collectors' is African Bubinga. Beautiful wood, but it's a laminate top. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | 70 miles from DC...when I am home...
I've got a couple of decent O's |
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| That would be an understatement. |
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| Now you all have gone and done it.
I'm one of you now. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Not until you whince when someone says "plastic" or you find yourself correcting salesmen in Box Stores!
Or buy one of Standing O's guitars.
Welcome! |
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| If anyone has winced about "plastic" it's me.
Of course I was the one who said it.... |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Wait until you get invited to a tupperware party and you show up thinking it's an Ovation gathering. I came home with a Legend LX in one hand and a set of popcicle molds in the other. Dave |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Nick, you got yourself a classic! Wow. |
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Location: Cicero, NY | Originally posted by cwk2:
Yep, he could use some time with the book. Nick - I currently have one of the history books making the rounds and it'll be going to FL next but, if you like, I can certainly add your name to the list so that you get it when your name comes to the top. Feel free to email me your address if you're interested. :) |
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Location: NJ | Good GET there, Nick!!
as BuckWheat used t'say:
"Weltome to d'Tub"!! |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Nice woik, Nick. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Close to DC??
Go look up Miles, he's got an excellent assortment to look at. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Wow...a '68 Deluxe Balladeer. You really are testing the "staying power" of the old Ovations. Can you tell us the serial number? And I might be wrong but I think those reeeeally old ones were made out of plastic! ;) :eek: :p
I look forward to your comments after you have had a chance to set it up the way you want and spend some time with it. And we don't want no fan-boy friendly, fluff piece article. |
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| B-500 |
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Location: NJ | Wasn't that a Datsun?? |
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Location: south east Michigan | B-500....dat's an old one alright.
Mine is serial #1328. |
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Location: Central Florida | Guys... please... Curb your enthusiasm... You're killin' me!!! ;)
The B-500 Deluxe Balladeer WAS mine before it became Nick's. I've had to sell off some beloved Ovations here in the last couple of weeks, and while I'm glad to see it go to a great guy like Nick, I'd be lying if I said it doesn't hurt to part with it. Nick, it's shipping out in about an hour... Enjoy!
Jeff |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I remember a Datsun B2000, but was the little square one with rear wheel drive a B500? We had one of those, but I didn't realize it was going to be worth so much money. The body was falling apart, but I don't remember anything about plastic. Senility is tough, but I can't remember why. Cliff, help me out here. |
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| So if this one is actually plastic, when was lyracord introduced? And is the early Balladeer top shelf dishwasher safe?
And how did you all know I wasn't talking about this guitar when I said plastic doesn't age well? Huh? ;)
I feel so wronged and abused. |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | "I feel so wronged and abused."
Welcome to the OFC Nick.. :D |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Watching PBS one Sunday, a Train tour through Scotland where they made stops at various Distillery's.
One Guide at a Scotch tasting exhibit described how the lighter to darker whiskeys went from "breakfast" whiskeys to "after-dinner" whiskey.
Nick, enjoy your breakfast. There is so much more... |
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Location: south east Michigan | Nick...ya trumped me.
Now I'm not quite sure you knew I attempting a little humor. Very little to be exact.
This reminds me to review my personal message board rules.
1) Sarcasim and irony never turn out like you meant it.
2) Attempts at "clever" humor are never understood.
3) Attempts at dirty jokes and sexual innuendo are always understood.
Nick...I can't be happier with the "sample" you have purchased. I think it's really cool that you took the time, effort, and money to follow through.
Now you need to think about attending the annual factory tour next year. (It's always something, isn't it??) |
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| Dammit, I was hoping I was wronged and abused. |
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Location: NJ | what, . . . AGAIN??? |
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Location: closely held secret | Don't be discouraged, Nick. Stick around, it'll happen... |
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Location: Tennessee | MIB -- the Datsun you were thinking of was the 510 ... it was an attempt to duplicate the BMW 1600/2002.
Congrats on the great get, Nick. Perfect example for doing what you do. Of course, you'll now make your way through the entire line of guitars like so many others here. Much column fodder in your future, that's for sure! |
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Location: GA USA | Slipkid, I made a lame joke here quite a while back and caught hell. As I remember, somebody was looking for a Josh White in good condition, and I found a web page with a high school athlete named Josh white and posted a link. One member emailed me to tell me he thought it was funny, and that the rest of you take yourselves too seriously. Here's a hint with the Cap'n... never take me seriously. Seriously, I mean it. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | I have never upset anyone on this board so I can't relate with either of you. But I imagine that everything needs to go with a grain or two of salt.
This board ranges anywhere from Blog to published Thesis pages.
I am still waiting for the little "soapbox" greamlin. |
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Location: Tampa, FL | Why don't we all just go to the "Cliff School of Charm" :eek:
You'll find it right next to the "AlPepto School of Sales" :rolleyes: |
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Location: closely held secret | Michael, on behalf of everyone here suffering from sodium imbalance, I find your post very offensive and insensitive.
Welcome to the club. Officially. :D |
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Location: SoCal | Cap'n, how much were they asking for the used athlete? |
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Location: GA USA | See for yerseff!
Josh White
Hardy-har-har... it never gets old! |
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Location: Upper Left USA | One of the "Fellas" at my bus stop is named Josh White. I think yours has a higher resale! |
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Location: Ohio | He looks pretty offensive to me... |
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Location: Denmark | Originally posted by GN-Nick:
So if you had $500 to plonk down on a used older Ovation, what model would you pick and why? Custom Legend 1619. Because it features deep bowl, stereo output, 5-piece neck, carved bridge. A beauty - especially if the top has no cracks. I can't really relate to the budget though.
http://www.ovationguitars.com/?fa=detail&mid=969# |
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Location: SoCal | The Custom Legend is a great guitar...problem with the $500 limitation is you would have to be very lucky to find one at that price in very good condition.
The 1657 Anniversary is a good alternative - AAA, deep bowl, A bracing that often is in the $450-500 range. |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Our local Guitar Center has had a used 1157 Anniversary in nice clean condition for $499 since Christmas and they can't move it, unfortunately. Nice guitar.
Roger |
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Location: Indiana | Originally posted by Tony Calman:
The Custom Legend is a great guitar...problem with the $500 limitation is you would have to be very lucky to find one at that price in very good condition.
The 1657 Anniversary is a good alternative - AAA, deep bowl, A bracing that often is in the $450-500 range. I agree. I have had my Anniversary since it was brand new, and is one of my fave O's.Just simply a great guitar.
Bill |
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Location: Denmark | Thanks. Great tip. It seems main difference between the two is the inlay and binding work. I am tempted by a deep bowl. A lot actually :)
http://www.ovationguitars.com/?fa=detail&mid=971# |
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Location: SoCal | another great guitar is the 1776 Patriot although in good condition is usually $800 and up. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | What are the differences between legend and patriot? Dave |
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Location: NJ | As far as I know, just the Nutmeg color and the BiCentesticle stencil . . . but I could be wrong. |
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Location: SoCal | During the 1970's the Legend had the VT bracing and the Partiot had A bracing. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Well...
William Dawes actually made it to his destination while Paul Revere was interupted. Paul, however became the subject of a classic poem and therefore became a Legend.
While being emblazoned on a Quarter (with the horse he rode in on) William Dawes is still cosidered merely a Patriot. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Thanks. I think. Dave |
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Location: SoCal | AAA, deep bowl, A brace, 5-pc neck, ebony fretboard.
1,776 made, 10% of them were a/e.
Rich, warm voice. |
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Location: NJ | That was one model that never "floated my boat" . . . . it always reminded me of this old, "colonial" coffee-table that my mother had . . . |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I agree. The cosmetics are a turn off to me as well. But people say they sound pretty nice. Dave |
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Location: NJ | . . . sounds like yer gonna be strating another "List" . . . |
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Location: SoCal | always willing to entertain a difference of opinion - great nutmeg finish...classic in appearance. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I do like the nutmeg finish. It's the 1776 emblem that turns me off. Maybe there is an al Qaeda version that instead of fifes and drums emblem has rocket propelled granade launchers and phony pilots licenses. Dave |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | that can be arranged Dave..... |
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Location: SoCal | looks purdy and classy to me...
 |
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Location: NJ | ice cream. |
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Location: SoCal | ". . . sounds like yer gonna be strating another "List" . "
Excuse my ignorance Cliff, but what's "strating"? Something to do with Fenders? |
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Location: NJ | Okay, . . . STARTing!
BiteMe, Moody. |
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Location: Vermont USA | Okay, . . . STARTing!
Bite Me Moody
I'm confused who is biting who and what does this have to do with Fenders?
Paul |
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Location: closely held secret |  |
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Location: south east Michigan | Wasn't there a thread started by Nick that went something like "this is what you've been waiting for?" What happened?
Anyway, the GuitarNoise automated newsletter goes out on monday. You might want to sign up for it to see Nick's Ovation article. At least I hope it's something we want to see. |
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| The article won't be out a couple of weeks, the mention of this site will be out this week. |
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Location: NJ | . . . and your credibility with the so-called "GuitarExperts" will be pretty much shot sometime thereafter. ;) |
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Location: south east Michigan | I don't think the "fan base" over at GN is very happy with us. We really piled on one of their own. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Is the fan base at any other website, besides Hamer, very happy with us? We are a little different.
I did have a lovely visit at the Heart Fan Club but I didn't hang around to bother too many people. (I think I led a couple back with me though!) :D |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | I WONDER why. |
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| Well my newsletter section should be out on Monday.
24,000 people read it, so you should tidy up a bit, dust, put out some cookies and lemonade and BEHAVE! |
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Location: SoCal | Us?? Behave?? I don't understand. But I like the cookies idea. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Paaaaul... (slap on wrist) those cookies are for our guests!!!! |
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Location: Orlando, FL | OH NO. If people read the new article and actually start buying used Ovations, it's going to be a lot harder to acquire the Ovations on my wish list! Damn you Nick! |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Does this mean we can't fart out loud??? |
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Location: Orlando, FL | Jeff you may fart out loud as long as it smells like flowers. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Eating lilacs. |
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Location: mississippi | I gave a 69 balladeer to a friend in mexico city 2 years ago it had a crack in the finish but not the wood he had a luthier refinish it and has been offered alot of money for it by several collectors but before the refinish it would play on a level equal to my d41 but it had a much wider range the voice and volume it had accoustically was unbelievable |
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Stay clear of any old Ovation???