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Location: south east Michigan | The Now & Zen Cafe has really been good to us. They were happy to have Brian and I come in, sit on their couch and just work on songs for a few hours. They encouraged the "arts".
Sad to say that they had to close down. I had said before that they had attracted kind of a young crowd. I guess it was a young crowd without any money to spend. BrianT and I had played our first gig there and we were hoping to do another soon. It was a perfect place to get used to playing in front of people.
R.I.P. N & Z!!!
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Location: Maryland, USA | That always stinks when great places can't seem to make enough money... |
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Location: Vermont USA | We see a lot of that up here just when you find a nice place to go, it shuts down within a month.
Paul |
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Location: NJ | I was a semi regular at a thursday night local coffeeshouse. I also bought something and so did my wife and anyone else we managed to drag with us. The prices were a little higher than the local convenience store but so be it we were entertained.
The twenty and some thirty somethings would come just to play. they would bring their coffee from a local chain or buy a soda (pop for you midwesterners) from a machine across the street. I saw the demise of this place coming for a while and I was not surprised when it went under.
Some people just don't get it. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | You and Brian should have bought the place and turned it into a flop house and jam studio for wayward OFC members.
Dave |
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Location: NJ | That's too bad, Brad. My Condolences.
Just had a local place that I/we gigged regularly shut down. It's sad.
The guy here at least went about it the right way - One Final BASH.
$10.95 AllYouCanEat Buffet, DrinkSpecials, and I donated the use of my P.A. for everybody and anybody to perform - one last time there.
A Great time was had by ALL!
Best to go down in flames than with a whimper . . . |
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Location: south east Michigan | You and Brian should have bought the place and turned it into a flop house and jam studio for wayward OFC members.
Young people without any money to spend....
G.A.S. weary OFC members without any money to spend....
same problem |
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Location: Cherry Hill, NJ | Brad
Too bad. At least it was fun while it lasted. Hey, I know of a hotel lobby, that you and Brian could play at in Conn. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | One of our local coffee shops, The Flying Saucer Cafe, which on occassion had open mikes, just closed. A starbucks moved in about 3 blocks away. I hate Starbucks. G-d d-mn overpriced donut shop for fools. |
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Location: NJ | come to think of it, I sat in with a friend at a place called the "southwest grille" for over 2 years on a saturday night. many good times there. The last night we played there the staff seemed sad, and they ran out of soda, shrimp, and chicken. I found that really strange. The cooler was turned off and there were no longer any beverages there. We got the call a few days later that they were closed for good. I still miss that place it had the best barbeque in jersey. |
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| "G-d d-mn overpriced donut shop for fools."
I went in a Starbucks for the first time yesterday. How right you are... |
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Location: SoCal | Their hot chocolate is good. |
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Location: closely held secret | So it seems I'm hanging out with a bunch of people who either frequent or gig in venues which, coincedently, close up a short time later.
Hmmmmm...... |
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Location: SoCal | If I were a trained detective, that would tell me something.
Oh yeah. I am. And it does. Of course, it's like saying that axe murderers drank milk when they were young, therefore, milk causes people to become axe murderers. It's just not true. Except in Clifford's case..... |
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Location: closely held secret | That lactose intolerance can really make people cranky. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Play in church, it keeps getting better!
"My" Bass Player just happens to run a successful Car dealership in his "spare time" and I keep giving him ways to spend his money. My last suggestion was for a Coffee Shop/Rock climbing Wall/Open Microphone Stage venue we could play bi-weekly at.
I would love to find an appropriate local venue to "play" at. |
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Location: SoCal | Gramatically, that should read "..at which to play." |
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Location: NJ | ". . So it seems I'm hanging out with a bunch of people who either frequent or gig in venues which, coincedently, close up a short time later.
Hmmmmm......"
It's kind of an inside "running joke" that Rick & I have that out of the dozen and a half (or so) venues that TwoManGroup plays, we've managed to "close" three of 'em (thusfar).
(I had a REALLY good self-deprecating joke to insert here, but I don't wanna tick off the Judge again, so I'll let it "slide" . . . too bad, too . . it was a GOOD one . . .).
In our area, it's gotten really bad.
It's not always so much that the "business" isn't there. It's become the cost of DOING the business.
One of our all-time favorite little places that we used to play had to "let us go" because the insurance policy (that he could "afford") only allowed for "entertainment" to consist of A singer who played AN istrument, SomeONE singing AND someONE playing an instrument, but NOT two people playing AND singing simultaneously.
If your establishment has an established "dance floor", forGET it! . . . yer into some MAJOR bucks, then! More and more places are foregoing live entertainment in favor of (ugh!) "karaoke".
The lawyers and insurance companies are KILLING the business. I've already had a couple owners tell me that if NJ adopts the whole "NoSmoking in Bars" edict . . . they'll just end up "folding". |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by cliff:
but NOT two people playing AND singing simultaneously. Because then you have to factor in the cost of the chicken wire. |
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Location: Tampa, FL | Moody, P.I. a man of many hats. First the price police, then the bracing police and let's not forget the string police (specializing in the third string perhaps :eek: ) and now...
the GRAMMAR police. When will it end. Are we doomed to a moody, p.i. police state? |
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Location: NJ | Waskel;
I tried to argue the point with the guy that we "suck" so bad at it (is that okay t'say?), that between the two us, he's really only paying for one REAL musician . . .
. . . he thought the concept was quite "original", but sadly, would'nt buy it :rolleyes: |
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Location: SoCal | It's amazing the stuff that stays with us from childhood. My father always pounded into his kids to never end a sentence with a prepostion. Decades later, I'll be working on a report, realize that I just did that, and even tho' the sentence sounds right, have to go back and restructe it in a more formal and correct way just to satisfy that voice in my head.
Shoulda done drugs when I was younger...... easier to live with the afteraffects. |
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Location: Tampa, FL | I believe that would be , "after effects" :eek: ;) |
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Location: SoCal | Hey, I said I was good with grammer, not spelling. |
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Location: closely held secret | Yah, people that done drugs don't care how they wright. |
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Location: Vermont USA | if NJ adopts the whole "NoSmoking in Bars" edict
We have this in Vermont and so far all the bars have stayed in tact. What seems to be a problem up here is the old style coffee house where a solo artist or a Two Man group can perform and also host an open mic for people like ME :D . It realy is all about me when you come right down to it. Anyway it is sad to see a good place shut down.
Paul |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Cliff,
Some of us lawyers get to defend people like you and the bars you try to hang out in. Only in America can you sue somebody whose only "wrong" is that he carried insurance. I constantly have to defend those people and plaintiffs say "I'm not really suing you, just get your insurance to pay for it."
Only in America can you start a fire in a vacant house that you just insured and claim that your insurance company should pay you to replace the whole house. And if it doesn't you sue them for bad faith and get a jury to award a bunch of punitive damages. And people say the insurance companies are the bad guys. Pretty soon only the rich will be able to afford insurance and they won't need it. Sorry, I guess I joined this club to talk about Ovations, too. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | A place in Phoenix called "fiddlers" is interesting. It's a barn that has been converted with bench seats and a small stage. Coffee bar in the back and chess tables. They have no admission charge on open mike nights, but in order to perform you have to donate non-perishable foods to the food bank. It's like 1-2 cans per song. Btw, I've never seen anyone actually play fiddle there. Dave |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | {I've already had a couple owners tell me that if NJ adopts the whole "NoSmoking in Bars" edict . . . they'll just end up "folding".}
Cliff: I've heard this also, but I find it hard to believe that too many bars will fold up. From what I've read, it hasn't killed business in any other state that has a smoking ban. The other side of the coin is that many people stay away or don't hang around too long at gigs because of the smoke. I had a gig in June where half of the people that came to see me, including my father, had to leave because of the smoke being so bad.
The problem is not so much the smoke itself that bothers me. It's the rude smokers that really piss me off. They think nothing of blowing smoke in other people's faces. I'm a cigar smoker so I'm not up on a soapbox here, but a little common sence goes a long way. |
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Location: Carle Place, NY | Cliff:
Self-deprecating jokes are fine with me. Let's hear that good one. :D
Mark:
I've been a personal injury lawyer for the past 12 years and have worked for both plaintiffs and defendants/insurance companies. Any bar/club owner that closes up shop and blames it primarily on the cost of insurance that drove them out of business is simply failing to own up to the fact that they were inept at running a business. Liability insurance is only a small part of total overhead which also includes rent (how 'bout blaming a greedy landlord), utilities (have your electric, fuel, gas and phone bills been going down lately?) employee salaries, maintenance, repairs, other insurance like workers' compensation and disability, taxes, accountant fees, liquor license fees, etc. What about advertising? Did they spend anything for adequately promoting their business?
The bottom line is that it is very hard to run a successful business. I ran my own pharmacy for 10 years, only to end up switching professions rather than continue competing with the ever growing number of chain stores. I blame nobody but myself for not being more successful at pharmacy. I've learned that a good businessperson is one with the ability to look ahead, be innovative and identify ways to improve, inhance and grow the business. Unfortunately, too many club owners simply think that all they have to do is open their doors and provide the basics.
Sorry to rant, but thats my $.02. |
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Location: Vermont USA | Is that an ambulance I see? Sorry I just had to go there.
Got to love me :rolleyes:
Paul |
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Location: Upper Left USA | In a State that requires Drivers to be insured why am I paying for Uninsured Motorists?
You can still sit outside of Starbucks and smoke! I just wish they had more room for playing guitar. |
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| Always a bummer when that happens. From personal experience/observation (and I figure cliffy and others will back me up here) the places that make it happen are the ones that work to make it happen. They advertise (press/local radio) and they finance it for 2 or 3 months to kick it off. They don't figure that a few flyers and a just let it happen attitude is going to win. One of the most successful jazz clubs in south London not only put a big effort in, but also used cheap beer as a way of kick starting Monday nights. The highly successful weekends followed from that. It's like everything in life - if you figure it's going to be easy, you fail.
But, as somebody else pointed out, it's possible Brian and Slipkid killed it. :p |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Mitch,
I hate to agree with a plaintiff's lawyer, but my point is that it's not the lawyers that create the fraud or increase the insurance premiums. Rarely do the lawyers go out and create a lawsuit. The clients are either honest or not. I see a lot of doctors who think nothing of basing an opinion of whether a treatment or surgery is necessary on whether there is insurance. "Injured at home with no insurance? If this happened at work or a car accident, insurance would pay for it." All of a sudden the insured business or individual has a huge medical bill to pay and pressures his insurer to pay it.
MWoody, I hope that if you ever have a UM claim you don't milk it for all it's worth, like most of them that I see.
To bring this closer to the point of the thread, this has now become a cost of doing business. |
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Location: Midland, MI | Brad-
I'm thinking of starting a non-commercial jamclub in my backyard (weather permitting) or basement (weather not permitting). My plan is to trick really good players I'm acquainted with into performing for free (or free beer). It'd be a hike for you two, but you'd be welcome. :)
Which reminds me, I need to follow up with Matt Smith and see if he's going to be on the local public radio station any time soon (one of my pet projects). I mean, if he's going to be in the area he could headline one night here, right? Shhhh...nobody say anything, I think I see him coming...
;) |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Wouldn't it be great to be in college again where every other person had a guitar and you just got together and jammed or someone would just show you how to play whatever was the latest? At least that's how it was when I was in college. Hardly learned a thing on guitar since then. |
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Location: Oakville Ontario Canada | Cliff,
Here in Toronto, the bars have all been non smoking for quite awhile, and very few shut down.
But they had to make major changes ie, totally enclose the bar area, and add expensive ventilation units, or put a patio with wind protection and arena heaters!
Now everybody is happy, smokers and non smokers.
Cheers |
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Location: Atlanta, GA. | Our county enacted a smoking ban in all public places including bars, etc., about 3 months ago.
The local tavern I frequent just took away all the ashtrays and provided empty beer cans for those that wanted to smoke. No one ever complained.
Yesterday I learned it is now again a "Smoking Establishment" by means of putting signs up at both doors stating such, and that no one under 18 are even allowed inside... ever! Can't have employees under 18 either.
Gotta love lawmakers!!! |
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Location: Malden, Massachusetts | Up here in Massachusetts, the bars and restaurants went smoke-free awhile ago.
As someone who played for years in smoky bars, I don't miss it at all.
(If I do miss it, I only need to open my guitar case!)
People don't go out to smoke-they go out to a cool place for a good meal and to have a few drinks. Nothing changed except the quality of the air inside and a few loyal smokers just outside the entrance every half hour. Everyone has adjusted.
Not sure if that would work in Jersey, tho' |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Here in New York the smokers get put out in the street. Last August on a muggy windless night, I was walking in the village past some clubs, and the street was filled with smokers and a fog of cigarette smoke. Wait, what was this thread about? |
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Location: Malden, Massachusetts | Oh, I remember - "Our venue is closing"
Remember when it was cool to say "..we CLOSED the place..." - indicating that you were amongst the last patrons standing at the bar and were asked to leave so they could close up. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Just to bring it back around....The Now & Zen was non-smoking by choice. |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | It's a shame....it was a nice place. I played with Brad and Brian over there a couple of times....
Roger |
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Our venue closes