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Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | I dunno... I just dunno.
This rubber bowl (look! it's a canoe paddle AND a trampoline) thing has me worried.
Sounds like a solution for a problem at never existed.
I just don't see what makes it a feature that would make anyone say "Ooooo... I want that!".
It's closer to the old tupperware reputation than ever before.
So please... somebody tell me... What make this flex bowl thing a good idea? |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | reduces the weight...therefore the shipping costs when coming in from Asia. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Rink prease! |
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Location: Tennessee | I was thinking that Tupperware thing when I was pushing down on the bowl at NAMM ... seeing if I could make it burp. hahaha. Having said that, I would never have even tried nor realized the bowl would do that if the Ovation team didn't show me. They're really excited about this, and not just the spoo-pukers. ;)
I don't think it has anything to do with reducing shipping costs. :rolleyes: But someone started messing around with formulations and I guess the difference is obvious enough to warrant changing this up and putting them on the higher end guitars. I have to believe this is a good thing or the bean counters would never have approved NEW stuff that costs at least a small pile to put it into production.
BTW, if what I heard was what I heard, bowls are being made in Asia for Asian-made guitars, including the current run of VL bowls. The new VL-bowls for USA consumption will be made in Ohio using the original molds and hand-laid up with the new formulation, keeping the original spec of .043" that Charlie determined was best. Something (or things) exciting are coming down the road later this year.
Personally, I've really liked all the new technologies that have come out of New Hartford over the last seven or eight years. Like I tell anyone that will listen, all of the best Ovation products that I own were made in CT since 2005. I expect this to continue that trend. |
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Location: Cicero, NY | Well I realize that this question may be irrelevant and immaterial but what's the flex bowl do to the sound? |
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Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | They say it's louder and more articulate. No way to judge that at NAMM, but I will say I felt the bowl vibrate against me much the same way the shiny bowls and hand-laid Adamas bowls do. Didn't get that from the "normal" bowls. |
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Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | As others previously posted, I'm not a fan of the stacked control knobs on the upper waist. My arm inadvertently comes in contact with the knobs and I'll lose volume in the middle of a song. It is kind of unnerving. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Bobbo... you lighten my mood.
I hope you're right.
.
I agree that 2005 & up was a fantastic time for New Hartford Ovations. I wish that was still true (in the mass production sense). |
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Location: Tennessee | Wouldn't you then have the same problem with the OP series? The volume knobs are pretty much in the exact same place. It just seems that if you have a problem with the stacked knobs, you'd have the same problem with the two knobbers and all of the OP-xx and Op-24 preamps. At least with the Optima you can detente the gain and notch filter knobs.
And I'm trying to figure how how my arm could come in contact with the knobs at the waist in any situation ... unless you're crossing your arms and tapping up the neck ala Kaki King.
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Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | Slight change of subject...several Ovation 'senior' guys were open about their belief that the older O's and A's (USA) are going to be worth a lot more soon (also later).
Makes sense as, other than limited runs, there will be few with a strong demand. |
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Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Since I ain't at NAMM, I had to rely on YouTube.
Short Flex-Bowl clip on YT
Dude sez "We've gone BACK to a mix of Fiberglass resin" whatever...
I don't remember ever seeing an Ovation bowl that could be bent like that.
(And I saw my first O at a hippie circle in 1970)
But I will refer you to that email that I copied in the Are the Bowls still made in Ashtabula thread....
Where the Zehrco folks said "As I understand, at one time, the Asians did try to produce their own bowl, but failed the acoustics and strength testing require by Ovation USA.. Lyrachord, is a very special material for Ovation Only."
So that might be the same Asian Lyrachord that didn't meet strength testing requirements....
If you pause the video at 0:17 you will see by the sticker in the bowl that the Artist VL is an import, not a Custom USA.
(at least there is no Factory on the sticker)
I guess they found a way to use the weaker Asian Lyrachord, and some Marketing babble.
I am sure that the lighter bowl material might vibrate more.
But I have visions of me denting one of them on the corner of a table or sumptin.
Anyway... I just wanted to share that video. And I doubt that I will be ordering one.
Let's see how long it takes for them to turn-up on d'Bay.
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Location: Sydney, Australia | Old Man Arthur wrote: Since I ain't at NAMM, I had to rely on YouTube.
Short Flex-Bowl clip on YT
Dude sez "We've gone BACK to a mix of Fiberglass resin" whatever...
I don't remember ever seeing an Ovation bowl that could be bent like that.
(And I saw my first O at a hippie circle in 1970 )
Marketing spoo!
My 08C has a hand laid bowl (which I think is a big factor in it sounding better IMHO, than my 1680). The hand laid bowl is rigid. If I got that much deformation, I think it would stay that way. |
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Posts: 119
Location: NH | Ovation has always been an innovator. Maybe at next year's show all the others will have Flexi-Wood. (Where are the smileys?) |
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Posts: 3619
Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | The whole flex-bowl idea seems really strange to me. I guess it could be an alternative to the contour bowl idea, but flexing material seems like a catastrophe waiting to happen. I can already picture guitars with the flex bowls smashed in, and the factory having to sell plungers to pull them back into shape(: I would think that any material that flexes would eventually fail. On the other hand, I don't know how long bagpipes hold up either. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | stonebobbo wrote:
Wouldn't you then have the same problem with the OP series? The volume knobs are pretty much in the exact same place. It just seems that if you have a problem with the stacked knobs, you'd have the same problem with the two knobbers and all of the OP-xx and Op-24 preamps. At least with the Optima you can detente the gain and notch filter knobs. And I'm trying to figure how how my arm could come in contact with the knobs at the waist in any situation ... unless you're crossing your arms and tapping up the neck ala Kaki King.
The knobs on the Op series are much lower in profile and don't create the same problem for me. I think it may be either my forearm, my bicep, or from some photos I just reviewed, possibly even my right pectoral. Maybe I need to wear a bra when I play. Maybe those coconut shells actually serve a purpose. Regardless, something is coming into contact with the stacked volume knob. It may be just me and the way I hold it, and, of course, it is a very shallow bowl 1567 Legend model from 1984 of which I refer. Love the guitar, hate the stacked knobs at the waist. |
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Posts: 6996
Location: Jet City | Why all the uproar over this thing? I hear with every purchase, they're including one of these:
[img:center]http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/public/o9KFO4GlXH16l7PCIbtU1KGo55gPIn-SgfJK3KSHf7RWU06o7bknqDRHJNjLDERdv0BPBqnXCwwiaxQAZ-UiLlYnuGO8huYq3n3WhV5e5TJrdR8Ge9-bLa_7X0Xs1FiwtDosDyA2accuCWnfP7JBI-A">
Seriously though, when it comes to wood box guitars, I was under the impression that hardwoods were used for backs and sides for better sound reflection.
Either that's a bunch of BS or this new flexi-bowl is. |
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May 2002
Posts: 1445
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | Yep, that flex-bowl thing is just bizarre. None of my old ones do anything that even slightly resembles that.
This really blurs the 'Lyracord = Tupperware' lines. |
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Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | This comes to mind.
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Except the back of the speaker cabinet doesn't flex. My totally uninformed opinion is that the flexible back is just a change for the sake of marketing. |
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Posts: 4233
Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | I'm not typically one to shrug off change "just because", but before I even consider buying a flex bowl, it will have to have considerable road testing and recommendations from people I trust. (Some of you know who you are, some of you don't.  )
Which is my roundabout way of saying I look forward to hearing from any of you when you get a chance to try one, especially on an American-made Ovation. |
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Posts: 2985
Location: Sydney, Australia | I thought it might be useful on a beach guitar - one that gets lots of bumps etc, but then I thought the normal bowls handle that sort of misuse quite well already.
I still don't get it. Looking forward to review by someone. |
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Location: Tennessee | Before people get the wrong impression, the Vintage Lyrachord is not designed as a "flexible back" guitar. The thing does not move in and out as you play. And from one who did it, it takes significant effort to push the bowl in ... it's not squishy like some might suspect based on the video. I'd had the guitars in my hands and didn't realize the bowl would do that until the Ovation rep showed me. And it only really detentes right in the center of the bowl ... try it on the sides or off-center a bit and it feels just like a regular bowl.
The folks I talked to at Ovation were ALL very high on the new formulation. It wasn't just the marketing people, either. There was lots of excitement around what is coming down the line from New Hartford that takes advantage of a number of new developments, including but not limited to hand-laid VL bowls.
But be warned ... it is something different which is hard for a lot of people. As I've said before, this is not your father's lyrachord.
And yes, there is a silver lining. Somebody is investing in new things for Ovation. And planning more USA guitars. I thought you'd all be happy about that. |
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Location: Route 66, just east of the Cadillac Ranch | In the video they show an artist bowl, did anyone hear if they were going to offer the VL in a deep bowl? If they do, and if it's made in the USA, I'd be one of the first to buy one. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Does anybody know if Ovation is still testing their products on the Vibrometer? I suspect that they are, and that if this flex bowl did not somehow improve the product, it wouldn't be in production. On the other hand, if the only improvement is the bottom line, that might not be so cool for us consumers. |
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Location: south east Michigan | No sign of the Vibrometer during the Guild Tour.
It was not in the place where it had been for years & years. |
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Location: Maine | Vintage Lyrachord, who would have ever thought? This concept was tested many many years ago..
I think it's a good thing if it holds up.
Isn't the guitar an object where you need to find the right balance between it's strength and the forces applied to it. Too strong and it will be condsidered overbuilt and too heavy. Too light and it could self destruct. If you can make a guitar ever so delicate, yet have enough strength to function for years, and sound like magic... then you'd have something special.
No one has ever commented on how lightweight any of my Ovation guitars are. They've only noticed that the older HLFG bowls & Pre K-bar are considerably lighter.
(Though, not always more durable) |
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Posts: 741
Location: Fort Worth, TX | someone may have already made this comment, but I'd hate to see O's go from being called plastic guitars to rubber guitars. Just more ammo for the haters. I definitely wouldn't own one even if there was a noticeable sound improvement. If that's the best innovation O can come up with, we may be in for an extended drought before O's ever regain widespread popularity. |
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Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | DaveKell wrote:
Just more ammo for the haters. I definitely wouldn't own one even if there was a noticeable sound improvement.
Huh? Sounds like you're on the hater team. Or their cheerleader. Sheesh!
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Location: Fort Worth, TX | I am at a loss as to how you arrived at that conclusion from my comments. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear - it wouldn't be the first time. In this thread, I read the word Tupperware with regard to these flexible bowls. In retrospect, due to my profound admiration for O's, IF there was an improvement in the sound, I might consider getting one. However, an acoustic guitar with any part being flexible borders on being toy-like in my mind. I guess I'd just have to see one. You sir, however, are way off the mark in calling me the cheerleader for O haters... WAY OFF. |
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Location: Texas | DaveKell wrote:
I definitely wouldn't own one even if there was a noticeable sound improvement.
That only makes sense if you are more concerned about what other people say about your guitar than anything else. If we all had that attitude, there would be no OFC. (We already "get no respect," so nothin' from nothin' is still nothin'...)
However, I agree with you in the sense that, without any further information, the demonstration of the flex bowl just makes the guitar look "cheaper" to me. Hopefully, improvements in sound (and weight?) were the goal in creating the flex bowl, as opposed a cost-cutting measure being spun into an "improvement." If the bowl is flexible enough, it could eliminate the need for contour bowls by precisely contouring to each players personal "contour." ;) (But would that mean that the a large, soft belly would dampen the vibration and therefore the sound?)
We won't know until we get to play them. I'm willing to wait and hear…
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Posts: 288
Location: Maine | IMHO, If the new bowls are lighter and offer the same strength/toughness, then what’s the problem ,assuming there is not a negative tonal decline.
If they are “rubber” the guitar will probably fail . The bowl is an integral structure for the whole guitar. My guess is the Folks at Ovation know enough.
Quote: “However, an acoustic guitar with any part being flexible borders on being toy-like in my mind”
Try pushing on an Adamas I top, It's not a toy.
Aren’t composites supposed to push the limits of the traditional, to get the most out of the least.?
Ever pickup a Kevlar Canoe or Kayak or paddle one? Ever push on one, they flex. They function fine, and there is a cool feeling being on the edge of the material limits.
I’m curious to know that the paint or coating of the bowl is. To me the spackle paint is more “tacky” then the delicateness of a FG bowl. The old Shiny Bowls have a more artistc attribute about them. Again, all IMHO.
I have a few bare OLD HLFG bowls. You can twist them like crazy without the top glued on. I'd like to see the new offering.
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Location: Texas | In the second half of THIS VIDEO Rick Hall, provides more information about the new bowls…
(in the first half he shows a guitar that is giving me serious GAS…) ;) |
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Posts: 12759
Location: Boise, Idaho | Al had at least one of those limited edition Legends that Rick shows in the first part of the video. I think I prefer it to the limited edition they did in 2010 which was an Elite style with a contour bowl, but since I got the 2010 model thinking it may be the last of the US Ovations, I couldn't justify another one. Maybe there will be another limited edition for 2012. I would be interested in comparing the 2010 and 2011 side by side. |
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Location: Route 66, just east of the Cadillac Ranch | TJR wrote: Vintage Lyrachord, who would have ever thought? This concept was tested many many years ago..
Can't help but wonder what the story is behind this picture. Perhaps the young man was told, "go sand on those bowls in the back," and he misunderstood them. :) |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | The photo sparked the idea for contour bowls. |
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Location: sitting at my computer | "Can't help but wonder what the story is behind this picture."
hmm... was that a Korean formula bowl inspector?!
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Location: Texas |
Those would pop back into shape, so he must be playing Whack-A-Bowl...
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flex bowls