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Location: Snåsa, Norway | As somone pointed out the thread on "Dull sound after rest" the sound of a guitar played acoustic is better in front than from the players position. I believe I've read somewhere that some luthiers experiment with soundholes in the upper bout of the guitar to let the player get a better impression of the sound. Have anyone seen or tried guitars with such soundholes? |
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Location: Bluffton, SC | At last year's Tour, Bauerhillboy brought an O where he had cut a sound hole in the top for exactly that reason. I played it and definitely heard a difference. |
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Location: NJ | i played an archtop that Linda Manzer built for Scot Chinery that had one of those, it was interesting because you actually got the sound of the guitar to your ears. Not practical for projection of the instrument though. |
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Location: Bluffton, SC | I was wondering that, Al. With the added benefit to the player, how much did the projection suffer? I would have to think significantly, no? |
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Location: Hicksville, NY | I had tried the Gibson traveling songwriter where the soundhole is located in the back at the local GC. It sounds very weak unplugged, but it's interesting enough that I could actually hear the sound with my ears. I think it benefits the player, especially for practice purposes, without disturbing others. To be able to be heard, however, it needs to be plugged in. Despite the thin body, I think it lives up to the hype, but am not quite so sure if the 2k-plus price tag is justifiable. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | My custom made 12 string 12 fret slothead has the side sound ports. IMHO, it allows me to get a truer representation of the sound of the guitar.
Pics in my gallery. |
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Location: Snåsa, Norway | Originally posted by stephent28:
Pics in my gallery. ... and exactly where is your gallery |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | The gallery either be in his house, or, in the members access area?
I've played them, and it does make it easier to hear as a player, but how it affects the sound for the audience, I dunno. |
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Location: Cherry Hill, NJ | I've read on another board, that Ovations are particularly noted for projecting out from the player. I don't know if they're just bashing Ovations, but, my O's sound much better, when I listen across from the player. Wooden box guitars do project a bit more to the player. That being said, awhile back I recommended on a post that anyone trying out a new O, bring a friend to demonstrate the guitar's sound, while sitting across from the guitar. You'd be surprised at the sound difference. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | HobbyPicker,
If you have never been to the members galleries in the "member access" section, you are really missing out on a treat.
Some of our member collections are truly amazing and they are all on display. Go enter at the green bar and the left and be prepared to spend a few enjoyable hours. |
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Location: Marlton, NJ | Even with #47, if I tilt it up towards me and play it makes a big difference in what I hear. Of course it makes it a "tad" more difficult to play.
On another note - has anyone ever heard of an acoustic using something like the Bose waveguide technology? Is that even possible? |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | It's been hypothocized that Ovations sound better "out in front" to a listener than they do to the player. My wooden guitars tend to sound better to my own ears from the players position. I've had people listen to me play two guitars and tell me which one they prefer,and I think "What are you, f'ing nuts?" But I suspect that from their position out in front and my position playing the guitar we are hearing 2 different things. As someone who plays 95% of the time just for my own pleasure the sound from the players position is most important to me.
Dave |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Originally posted by Tupperware:
As someone who plays 95% of the time just for my own pleasure the sound from the players position is most important to me.
Dave EXACTLY! |
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Location: Chicago | I've noticed the same thing, which is why I try to practice in front of a wall to have the sound project back to my ears. It is remarkable to move around while playing: you will hear deadness at times and a rich, hear-from-the-front sound at other times, just depending on where you project the sound!
Take off the back plate of the guitar, and you will get a better idea of the projected sound, but it's going to kill your overall volume (and you lose some tonal quality). |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | I've recently developed a working prototype device constructed from a toilet plunger and a set of old DC10 passenger headsets. The plunger has been modified to fit into the soundhole and the headset attached to allow the player to clearly hear the guitar. It's a completely passive system requiring no electric/tronics.
I'm calling it the Steth-O-Scope
(It also fits the rear access hole on multi-hole models) |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Without string tubes it will never sell! |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | I'm currently working out a deal with Witkowski Distribution, a SubDivision of StandingO Industries, a wholly owned Subsidiary of Tupperware Inc. |
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Location: big island | Originally posted by CrimsonLake:
Even with #47, if I tilt it up towards me and play it makes a big difference in what I hear. Of course it makes it a "tad" more difficult to play.
On another note - has anyone ever heard of an acoustic using something like the Bose waveguide technology? Is that even possible? I believe it is luthier, Steve Klein, who has done some experimenting with internal baffling similar to Amar Bose's acoustic wave technology. I think I saw one of those units for sale by Paul Huemiller at Dream Guitars not long ago. And I perceive it is probably more user friendly than the proto-type model Jeff W. is touting. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Originally posted by Tupperware:
As someone who plays 95% of the time just for my own pleasure the sound from the players position is most important to me.
. . . which may likely be the reason why I prefer to play plugged in. |
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Location: Warren,Pa. | OK...I just caught up with this conversation. I'm quite sure I'm the only one here who has soundports in the bass shoulder of their Ovation and I can tell you without a doubt it works! It doesn't have any negative effect on projection toward the audience, either.
I've experimented with different set-ups, and ultimately settled on Air-Locks in the treble soundholes.
If someone knows how to put pics into this thread I'll email a picture to you.
John <>{ |
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Location: SoCal | John, you can email the picture to me, or we can guide you through it. Aren't there instructions in the FAQ thread? |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I may have the worst "practice technique". I spend a fair amount of time playing the guitar in and old worn out lazy boy kicked back. The guitar sounds great to me pointed up at the fairly low ceiling. I play for my self almost 100% of the time--for good reason. No one else wants to listen. |
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Location: South of most, North of few | Originally posted by Jeff W.:
I've recently developed a working prototype device constructed from a toilet plunger and a set of old DC10 passenger headsets. The plunger has been modified to fit into the soundhole and the headset attached to allow the player to clearly hear the guitar. It's a completely passive system requiring no electric/tronics.
I'm calling it the Steth-O-Scope
(It also fits the rear access hole on multi-hole models) how about two tin cans and some string...... |
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Location: Wooster, Ohio | I was at the Columbus guitar show last year and a Ohio luthier had most of his guitar with a added small sound hole in the side for the player to hear. Is does work, but a guitar show is nowhere to really test the overall sound. I tend to play with a small amp which projects the sound to me.
Steve |
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Location: texas | if you were to drill a hole would it have to be close tothe neck and would that affect the structural integreity of the guitar just wondering |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | An easy test would be to pull the electronics out of your O. Then you got a nice soundhole on top to project right into your face.
If you like it, please send me the electronics for proper disposal. |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Originally posted by Tupperware:
I've had people listen to me play two guitars and tell me which one they prefer Hey Dave, I know you're multi talented... but this I've gotta see. |
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Location: ranson,wva | i think a soundhole at the waist on a 'o would be the ideal place if you wanted to project towards your ear...jason |
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Location: Port Charlotte, FL | http://69.41.173.82/forums/showthread.php?t=89963
is a link to an interesting discussion about soundports. I added (or removed one)to a Washburn guitar and am pleased with the result.
Not only can I hear the guitar better, but there's a bit more forward projection also - the comments by Tim McKnight and his decibel meter are linked also.
Cheers, Pete |
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Location: Utah | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
I play for my self almost 100% of the time--for good reason. No one else wants to listen. I've found that a few beers makes the audience appreciate my playing a whole lot more. The more they drink, the better I get! |
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Location: Whitecourt, Ab | How about dual sound holes, with removable solid covers...eg if you wanted to hear yourself play, cover the f hole and open the hole on the upper facing side, and if you wanted projection, cover the side hole and open the f hole |
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Location: big island | Originally posted by rededdie:
How about dual sound holes, with removable solid covers...eg if you wanted to hear yourself play, cover the f hole and open the hole on the upper facing side, and if you wanted projection, cover the side hole and open the f hole now that's a thought, hey.
and thanks for just using the letter "f" and not spelling the whole word! |
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Location: big island | not long ago, i cut a rectangular hole in the up-shoulder of my j-200 in order to install a fishman prefix problend. the j-200, being jumbo size, pumps out a lot of volume anyway, but before i installed the electronics i played the guitar awhile and enjoyed hearing the music coming directly at me and balanced between both ears. soundports are a very viable idea for guitars, mandolins and ukuleles. for some reason, i cannot imagine one on a banjo though. |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | A sound hole for a banjo is similar to a grave. About 6' deep is sound enough. |
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Location: PDX | 
and
_____
gh1 |
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Location: big island | Originally posted by muzza:
A sound hole for a banjo is similar to a grave. About 6' deep is sound enough. :p |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | My Traveler (no Ovation, but the Traveler" guitar has sound powered headsets... basically a stethoscope with the receptor embedded under the bridge. It does surprisingly well. |
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Location: SoCal | Here are the pictures from John (bauerhillboy)
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Location: big island | wow! nice job, John. it seems that acoustically the sound coming out the front of the guitar would lose some "compression" thus reducing the projection. perhaps sound wave properties do not function the same as, say air or water. |
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Location: Warren,Pa. | No scientific testing was done (nor were any animals harmed) to get to this point. I simply started with one hole and kept going. Things kept getting better as I kept drilling.
Big chance to take with a Std. Elite LX NEB but, hey...what's the worst that could've happened? I LOVE the results.
John <>{ |
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Location: big island | sure is purty!
what kind of drill bit(s) did you use? |
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Location: Warren,Pa. | I called Kim Keller and he discussed it with the guys in the shop, Since he had some thoughts on how to proceed, I took that to mean he didn't think I was a total idiot for trying this. Emboldened, I moved forward.
I started out by drilling the largest hole you see, closest to the preamp. I used a NEW Irwin spade bit...the kind with the points sticking out on both ends. It drills a starter hole in the center, then begins scraping a circle in the fiberglass with the 2 outer points. I had the cordless drill on SLOW and was careful to keep those 2 points scraping at equal rates. I held my breath for the duration...about 1 minute. Very neat cut.
I had intended for this to be the only hole I'd drill. As I played I liked the sound I was hearing, but I felt the hole was too far down the guitar to direct sound at my ears. I also felt I needed more holes to give me more sound. I thought for a few days.
After considering more drilling, I felt I wanted the pattern of holes to mimic the holes in the top. I thought this would result in something that looked "factory" done, rather than some schlocky home made attempt. (I have had several folks ask me if the guitar came that way).
I briefly considered making the holes the exact same size as the top holes so I could use AirLocks if I wanted, but I abandoned this idea because the drill bits don't come in those sizes. Also, The only reason to use Airlocks would be to increase the volume to the top holes, and this (as it turns out) is not an issue.
Measuring carefully for the centers of the additional holes, I drilled the next larger hole with a slightly smaller spade bit. This went well.
The smaller holes were a different story. Since the bits with the outer points are not available in those small sizes, I used regular drill bits. This was a mistake. This fiberglass is thin. While these holes don't cause any kind of structural problem, the area you're working with "flexes" slightly. Regular drill bits start out OK till the outer edges start to make contact. At that moment, the outer edges of the bit pull up on the point of contact and bend the fiberglass. The close proximity of the holes made drilling scary, and I did wind up with one crack in the fiberglass between 2 of the smaller holes. If I were to do it again, I'd ude a small spade bit to drill the small holes. It wouldn't have the same scraping action as the larger bits, but similar.
I won't do this to my '97 Collectors', but I may do it to the Pacemaker. This would be different since it has a hand-laid bowl rather than the injection-moulded one. |
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Location: big island | http://www.dreamguitars.com/preowned/acoustic/Alberico_OM_2004.html
check out this soundport |
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Location: Orange County, California | OK, Everybody grab your propeller-hats & pocket protectors...
Originally posted by Lanaki:
it seems that acoustically the sound coming out the front of the guitar would lose some "compression" thus reducing the projection. Remember, The top is the SOURCE of the vibration (and sound) in an acoustic guitar. Anything (including internal air volume) the hinders it's movement, affects the sound we hear. Unless you had a large hole on the top near the edge AND a large hole near the edge of the side where you could get some "cancellation" of sound-waves meeting each other around the corner out of phase, "side ports" should have no affect. I'd have bet they would improve the projected sound on some guitars by letting the top move more freely at certain frequencies, but then I look at that huge center hole, and slide right back to reality. |
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Location: ranson,wva | all ready wearing mine fred...lol jason |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Master Templeman orated on this and gave the name of theologian responsible for this formula over the effect of tone from back pressure in a semi enclosed sound system.
A prize to the one that can pull it out of the archives! double credit if you have less than 100 posts! |
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Location: Bluffton, SC | Triple credit if you have a couple glasses of merlot in you... |
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Location: Tampa, FL | I believe you are referring to his discussion of Hemholtz frequency
I believe I'll need abeer after this |
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Location: Tampa, FL | And I probably have way less than 100 meaningful posts...
about the same as number as cliff :eek: , but my content density may be higher. I'll go away and be quiet now... |
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Location: Bluffton, SC | ( :D :D ) |
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Location: ranson,wva | damn im too late...lol jason |
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Location: Tampa, FL | This one actually sends you off to places most would rather avoid. Paul's post is towards the bottom.
BTW - the correct spelling of the person is Helmholtz :rolleyes: |
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Location: Upper Left USA | 100 points for Gryffendor!
Two prizes headed to the home of Lutz Nuts!
(Please PM your last known where-abouts) |
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Location: Upper Left USA | PS
You all need a LIFE! |
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Location: Bluffton, SC | ...maybe...but how 'bout right after we get that next guitar, ok?... |
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Soundhole in the guitar side?