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Location: oklahoma | Hi all I just wanted to know why O's are not as excpensive as other guitars ? even a bottom line solid wood acoustic cost more than a new balladeer? why is that ? O's are made in the U.S.A just like the other guys ? right know I am currently selling my 1771LX balladeer I guess for that reason it just dosent seem like I own a good quality guitar also the resale value makes things worse . If I can't sell my Lx then I will stay with it and learn to get over it, I am not saying these guitars are cheap in qaulity because there not just the price.... thanks for any help.............jesse |
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Location: ranson,wva | if i can get a guitar that i paid $1000 for like my adamas that sounds every bit as good or better than a taylor or other brand that costs 3 times as much im more than happy. the market on ovations in the resale field is up and down. ovations are as good qulity as any other guitar out there in my own opinion....jason |
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Location: Hicksville, NY | "why O's are not as expensive as other guitars ?"
As a consumer, I actually find it a good thing, as I tend to find the most value, quality and craftsmanship for the least amount of dough that I will dig deep in my pocket for. Think of it as like getting upgraded to a front row seat at a U2 or Bruce Springsteen concert for the price of a nosebleed seat, and Ovations [especially US made ones] are high quality guitars as any brands out there IMO.
"also the resale value makes things worse"
I guess that's the trade-off. I, too didn't have much luck selling my balladeer, but with patience a whole lotta luck, I did much better by trading it in for a better guitar.
I don't want to sound like the price police ... selling your balladeer at the price you posted seems a bit excessive. For an extra $9.99 from your asking price, I could purchase the exact model that you have in brand new condition. That was the quote given to me by the sales manager at Guitar Center in Long Island City, NY two weeks ago. I passed on the offer, cos I found a better one with a deep bowl custom legend 1719. |
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Location: Hicksville, NY | Originally posted by ignimbyte:
Ovations [especially US made ones] are high quality guitars as any brands out there IMO.
I think I just echoed jason's opinion ... LOL :D |
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Location: Omaha, NE | It only seems reasonable that O's would cost less. After all, the roundback is a huge cost saver compared to traditional construction. |
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Location: Tennessee | "Why are O's not as expensive as other guitars?"
It is amazing when you think about it, and if you go to the factory tour you will find out there is as much hand work, if not more, than any of the other big manufacturers. I would speculate that: 1) Ovation has not had to invest huge money in new factories like Taylor, Gibson and Martin have all done in the past few years, making the fixed overhead expenses much lower and therefore lowering the per unit manufacturing cost; and, 2) Ovation does not spend huge dollars on marketing and promotion the way the other large manufacturers do, further lowering the per unit cost. I'm not sure the cost of the parts and pieces that make up the guitar are any cheaper than the other guys ... after all, you can buy a solid rosewood / solid spruce kit directly from Martin with everything you need except for the glue for around $400, even less for the mahogany kits. The bean counters who run the numbers (and the business :eek: ) look at margins and therefore the manufacturing efficiencies and the low fixed overheads they have at Ovation turn into a great value for anyone who wants a quality US built guitar.
Of course, the secondary market for Ovations is indeed very weak. The lack of huge marketing budget is a double edged sword.
The quality of the guitar is borne out by how it plays and how it sounds, not by how much it costs. There are a lot of shallow people out there who think because they paid 3X for their guitar it is a better guitar ... in these parts, we know that's not necessarily true. You have a great guitar, made by good people, at a reasonable cost. Enjoy it for what it is! |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Just because something costs more, it doesn't mean it's better. I like the sound and playability of Ovations. I have 4 or 5 that together cost less than my friend's Taylor. To me, they sound better than his Taylor. Plus I have more variety than he has. Who got the better deal?
I've never been one to buy something just because it's popular. Marketing costs bunches and does nothing for the quality of the product. |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
I've never been one to buy something just because it's popular. You ARE a kindred spirit. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | "why are O's not as costly as ?"
"I am currently selling my 1771LX balladeer I guess for that reason it just dosent seem like I own a good quality guitar also the resale value makes things worse." --jesmont4
Hmmm... Don't know what to say. I'm sorry you feel that maybe you don't have a quality guitar because it is reasonably price. I would just think that I got a good deal.
As to resale value... (This oughta Break Your Heart) I have a used USO, a used MIK Balladeer, and a new blem/B-stock MIC Celebrity. I didn't pay $1000 for all three.
They are all different, even the two SSB's.
I think you ought to enjoy the guitar. (You obviously won't be happy with your resale price.) So just play it, and say "Gee, this is a pretty nice guitar at a discount price!" |
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Location: Taiwan | I recently bought a 1771-LX. I almost went with a used one. But I'm not going to take the risk of sight unseen used over the same model new, unless I save a fair amount. I couldn't find one for more than about a 20% savings. That's not enough. I'm finding the same thing as I browse for a used Big Baby Taylor.
As I looked, I realized that people don't expect to take much of a hit when buying new and then selling. I don't ever plan on selling a guitar - just buying them. But if I sell, I expect to take a big hit.
I'm curious why you are selling your Balladeer. I love mine. Hey, I'd also like a nice Breedlove, and when I save up $2,000 I might buy one. But I'll keep my Balladeer.
I got my 1771-LX for $799 with a nice case. The workmanship and detailing seem every bit as good as that on my $1400 Strat.
Funny though. Ovation does have an image problem. When a guitar playing colleague found out I'd ordered an Ovation as my first guitar a few months ago, I got the clear message that he was disappointed. Then he played it just a few minutes and was intrigued. Now he owns one (used Elite) and thanked me for introducing me to it. (He is now jealous of my light bowl).
Ovation isn't a popular choice, but obviously has a cult following.
Enough rambling from an ignorant newbie.
I'd just keep the O for bangin' around and save up for that Takamarlor.
Shot |
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Location: CT | If you don't think you have a good guitar because it's not as expensive as a wood box, I suggest you play the Ovation and the wood box you want side by side, each with the same set of strings, and see how you like them. And have someone play each one for you while you sit in front and listen. It would be a shame to take a hit on that Balladeer just to spend 2 grand on something that you may not like as much, or enough to make up the price difference. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Read the first sentence of the OFC Welcome Page. "Ovation Guitars Do Not Get The Repsect They Deserve".
In the "you get what you pay for" curve, Ovation is far off the trend line. That's great for buyers, lovers and collectors of Ovation guitars.
Why is that? It wasn't always that way. In 1974 my best frind Bill Chiochanowski and I each saved up to buy new guitars. Our parents lent us half the money. I bought a Legend for $425. He bought a D28 for $575. Similar guitars, both sounded great to our ears. We'd often swap for a few days at a time. Somehow over the next 35 years the perceived market value of his guitar and my guitar went in opposite directions and it had nothing to do with how "good" either of the guitars actually were.
The market value is set by the consumer, and often based on perception and not fact. Ovations cost way less than Martin, Taylor, etc. because that's as much as someone is willing to pay for them. Somebody who has rationalized in their own mind that they are going to spend $3000. on a new guitar isn't going to strum an Ovation and say "Gee, maybe I should buy this one for half that amount".
If it makes you feel better, next time you buy a new Ovation offer to give the seller and extra thousand bucks.
Dave |
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Location: Reno, NV | The quality of Ovation is superb for the price. You are letting price determine the quality, which is wrong. As pointed out earlier, some companies spend lots on marketing and pushing their brand as a premier option, when in reality all they are doing is setting awarness and public perception, typically for the ignorant and uninformed buyer. As a result, more people buy their guitars and consumer demand allows them to charge more. It does not mean you are getting a better made guitar.
Im impressed with the quality and technology in Ovation. The fact that they aren't breaking the bank is just the icing on the cake. Take a serious look at the quality of guitars in the same price range from the big guns (CF.M, Taylor, Gibson). I think you'll be suprised how poor it is. I think that Martin still makes a decent guitar in all price ranges, but you pay alot for what you get. Their bottom end solid wood guitar (D-15, D-16) being as much as a a very good Elite LX.
Take a listen to the sample in this thread by GeorgeShep..
Bm Jamming on a 1771LX
Pretty impressive for such a "cheap" guitar, dont you think? If you didn't know any better, how much would you think that kinda sound would cost? |
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Location: East Tennessee | Originally posted by stonebobbo:
The quality of the guitar is borne out by how it plays and how it sounds, not by how much it costs. There are a lot of shallow people out there who think because they paid 3X for their guitar it is a better guitar ... in these parts, we know that's not necessarily true. You have a great guitar, made by good people, at a reasonable cost. Enjoy it for what it is! You hit the nail right on the head.
I have played a couple of $6000 Martin's that I really did not like the sound of and have played, and own several inexpensive Martin's that I do like.
I have played, and have owned numerous Ovations over the years. Their sound and quality of workmanship has always been high.
Are they the ONLY good guitar out there? No but you will get more bang for the buck than you will with any other brand. |
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Location: SoCal | This is a really good thread with a lot of good info and a lot of laughs. Takamarlor? I love that!
Very very very few guitars hold they're value in the resale market. I would never buy a new guitar, hold on to it for a year, and expect to be able to sell it for what I paid for it. Look, if you buy a new car from a dealer and drive it off the lot, it's already worth thousands less than what you paid for it if you try and immediately resell it.
With Ovations, it's perceptions vs. actual value. While they are not perceived to be high end guitars, they're actual value as an instrument is incredibly high. I've only paid more than a thousand bucks for 2 of my Ovations. Yet I wouldn't hesitate to play them against instruments that cost $2-3000, knowing that the quality of sound is there.
Didn't Tup recently post that somebody came to his house, played all of his guitars (Martins and Ovations -- high end all), and then asked why he didn't keep the #47 and dump everything else?
My weekend car is a 1983 Mazda Rx-7. It gives me more grins per dollar spent that any newer sports car on the road. Do I feel bad about not spending more money? Hell no! I got value for my dollar.
Tup was right. Keep the Ovation and if it makes you feel better, go give the dealer who sold it to you an extra grand. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Next Poll subject-- How to annoy an O-cultist... (Ovation Lover) |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
Didn't Tup recently post that somebody came to his house, played all of his guitars (Martins and Ovations -- high end all), and then asked why he didn't keep the #47 and dump everything else? Small correction Paul: He heard ME play #47, and he heard tapes of YOU playing all my other guitars.
Dave |
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Location: SoCal | obviously crappy recording equipment........ |
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| jes - move to Europe and buy the next one. You'll feel a lot better when you have to sell a kidney to buy a US Ovation. 2 kidneys and you got an Adamas. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | When we find out what pharmecuticals actually cost to make vs what we are paying, we get a little upset.
If we knew what certain brands of guitars actually cost to make versus what they are asking we may be a little upset.
It has been stated again and again on this site by Marketeers and retired Gas Station Owners:
You sell a product for what you can get for it and not what it costs.
Also, as stated in "The Book" Charlie Kaman's goal was to provide the "Every Man's Guitar". |
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Location: RI. That small State out East | Good thoughts...
What would happen to that same "LX" if...
A very big name put out an unpluged CD and we saw the first year "LX" getting lots of MTV play?
Add the "big name" saying he likes this 2004 model...
Now we have a run on every wan-a-be paying top dollar for that guitar... I'd guess more than it's original price.
I know I have guitars that turn heads when a real player plays them. I know I've had some wooden snobs... Squint, and say that's not bad... I didn't know Ovation made such a nice guitar.
I believe the Celeb. line has a lot of people thinking that all Ovations sound / play that way.
Hell, most of this board will pull their hand back when the read or see the Celeb. label. I know that I click by "every" Celeb ebay listing as being... Not what "I" want.
That Said:
I'm sure that a few Celebs would kick my ass and have me say... I didn't know a Celeb could sound as good as...
Ovation makes a great guitar and gives you double the value... $1,500.00 spent on an "O"... You need to spend close to $3,000.00 to hear /get that from others.
I do believe that.
Woz |
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| When I bought my '92 1767 it was 13 years old, (didn't have a scratch on it) the top was aged very well, it played like new, sounded better than new, and I paid less than half the original retail. So in that respect there isn't really a direct relationship between cost and quality, regardless of the company who made it. I've been told 'you only get what you pay for', but in this case I got substantially more. I didn't buy it to look at it, I bought it to play. As far as acoustic value is concerned, it will only increase. |
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Location: Reno, NV | Steve wrote:
"I've been told 'you only get what you pay for', but in this case I got substantially more"
The phrase "you get what you pay for" is subjective to what you expect to "get". For some the value is in being able to tell their friends "yep, I got a Taylor" ... and never thinking twice about what the instrument actually represents. It like being able to say ..."yep. its a Rolex" ... but 98% of Rolex owners dont know anything about their watch, the brand, the history, the movements etc...
So what you expect to "get" for the money, may not be what is considered a good value to others.. and vice versa. |
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Location: Warren,Pa. | Just something that's occured to me before: I'll bet the cost of a fiberglass bowl is a lot less than the cost of bending wood sides, gluing-up a back, applying braces, binding and purfling to a back and sides.
The all-wood lovers use the term "plastic guitar" when they refer to Ovations. Fact is the ONLY thing that's not the same is the "back and sides". I'll grant you there is something enchanting about Rosewood, Koa, flamed-Maple, etc. back and sides. Sometimes I'm tempted to come out of a store with a guitar just because I fall in love with the wood back and sides. That part of the guitar MUST be a large part of the price.
Can anyone confirm my ignorant assumptions? John <>{ |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | My wife drives a small red sports car (I drive a station wagon, go figure). When we bought her car, somewhat of a reward for the kids finally moving out, she didn't give a crap about the engine, handling, value, etc. All she said was it had to be red and it had to have a certain emblem on the front. And that's what she got. I'm very sure there are better sports cars, faster, whatever. I'm very sure there are far better values for the dollar. It had to be red. It had to have a certain emblem on the front.
I'm sure many guitar purchases go the same way. Especially some of the higher end ones. We should keep in mind that not everyone purchases a guitar for the same reason. I mean, yeah it's a musical instrument and you want to play it. But some guitars are purchased to be "tools". Best hammer in the toolbox to do the job. Reliable, easy to use, etc. People earn their living using these tools. Not interested in making a fashion statement, just get the job done. To other people, maybe collecting certain guitars is more like "art". Maybe it makes them feel good to surround themselves with these certain instruments no matter how over priced. It's oil paint on a freaking piece of cloth and it's worth HOW much? By the way, interesting observation on my part is that the best players I know do NOT play the most expensive guitars. It's the schmucks like me that shell out money for guitars that we could never do justice to.
The fact that someone paid $5000. for a whatever guitar and you/me/etc. think he could have gotten a "better" guitar for a lot less if he had gotten an ovation is a completely meaningless arguement. It HAD to say Taylor on it, and it HAD to be expensive. Just like it had to be red, and had to have a certain enblem on the grill.
Dave |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by bauerhillboy:
Just something that's occured to me before: I'll bet the cost of a fiberglass bowl is a lot less than the cost of bending wood sides, gluing-up a back, applying braces, binding and purfling to a back and sides. That's for sure true. Try pricing out a set of food storage containers made out of Rosewood.
Dave |
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| Yak,
Perspective perhaps. Subjective or objective perhaps. But for acoustic value and investment in a quality instrument I got more than what I paid for and it will only increase in real value because the acoustics improve with the age of the wood top. Ovation Instruments offer the best of both worlds. And an Adamas guitar is absolutely unique for it's construction and acoustic signature. But, I'm an unabashed Ovation snob, been that way a long time... :) |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Thanks again, Dave, for the ride in your station wagon. I thought it was nice, although I would have preferred a ride in your wife's car. I tried to buy my wife a more expensive car, not because she needed it, but so I could use it as leverage. She likes Hondas. I just don't understand some people. Why would you buy something useful, reliable and carefree when you could have something that costs a lot more and doesn't do the job any better? |
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Location: Tennessee | Originally posted by bauerhillboy:
Just something that's occured to me before: I'll bet the cost of a fiberglass bowl is a lot less than the cost of bending wood sides, gluing-up a back, applying braces, binding and purfling to a back and sides.
Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it. Anyone want to venture a guess on what it cost for the development of the contour bowl, the cost for reformulation of Lyrachord GS, and the injection tooling for the bowl? I'd venture to say it is huge. The underlying cost of shooting the bowls may be low, but you've got to look at the whole thing when calculating the cost to build the guitar. I'll bet the automated systems at either Taylor or Martin only costs a few bucks to do everything necessary to build the backs of a square guitar. |
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Location: SoCal | Bobbo's right in that when you buy a product, you're usually also paying for the R&D and manufacturing costs of that product. Somebody earlier mentioned that a lot of medicine,to make, doesn't cost much. But you're paying for all the costs behind that medicine as well.... |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | . . . . and massive profit margins and lots and lots of schmoozing doctors with dinners and "educational conferences" [read golf weekends} and sales kittens making 70 grand right outta college... |
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Location: Cicero, NY | The sales kittens are worth every penny though... |
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Location: Tennessee | Ovation has sales Kitties ... check them out here: Scroll down to Kittie . |
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Location: North Carolina | I see guitars as tools, not as works of art. I have a very nice Taylor 714 I almost never play on gigs. It sounds too boxy through the PA and is difficult to control. My Ovations do exactly what I want. They play well, sound good unplugged, and are an incredible value. If I ever get rid of an acoustic, It'll be the 714. |
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why are O's not as costly as ?