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Location: Cherry Hill, NJ | The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is inducting a rapper, this year, grandmaster flash. What gives? Hip hop should have its own hall of fame. Question: Should the Monkees be in the RR hall of fame? Also this year the induction is held in NYC, why not Cleavland? |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Didn't they induct them already?
I remember the early days of rap, going to the Skate Key in the Bronx, with my Panamanian girlfriend, while Grand Master Flash rapped it's a jungle, sometimes it makes me wonder what keeps me from going under ... it's the animal that rap and hip-hop have evolved into that's nausiating. Believe it or not, for those of us who lived here, it was easy to go from the rock / punk world to the rap world in the late 70's / early 80's ... there was a synergy between the two. I have no problem with the early rappers getting in there.
Should the Monkees be in the RR hall of fame? Yes, just listen to More of the Monkees. Of course, they didn't play their instruments, but that's only a technicality. Some guy named Glen Campbell played on that album.
Also this year the induction is held in NYC, why not Cleavland? This is a rhetorical question. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | The Partridge Family deserve one too!
Grand Master Flash... Gimme a Break!
Then you got people who think "mixing" and scratching LP's is making music.
Dude, other people made the music. You are NOT a musician! Rapping lyrics over some-one else's song is child's play. As a matter of fact-- when we was kids, we use to tape music onto a reel-to-reel, and sing along. Maybe change the lyrics. That was playing DJ.
We all have redone the lyrics or songs...
THAT IS NOT MUSIC!!
And it is definitely not Rock-n-Roll! :mad:
[add-on] The Sugar Hill Gang was alright in their day. But I think that they actually PLAYED instruments. |
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Location: Scotland | Gimme a break????? Elvis never wrote a song in his life and his musical skills are highly questionable, but no-one would question his place in the hall of fame. It depends on your definition of "Rock And Roll" and to a much greater extent your tolerance to the way music and popular culture evolves. Should the Monkees be in the RnRHOF? Of course. They sold millions of albums, helped establish careers for record producers and songwriters (Including Neil Diamond, John Stewart, Gerry Goffin, Carol King and Michael Martin Murphy) paved the way for the current manufactured "Boy Band" concept and recorded a shitload of classic pop and country-rock. Grandmaster Flash was a pioneer, and that's part of what recognition in the Hall Of fame is about. You may not like Hip-Hop or Rap, but it sells millions. So deal with it, it's now mainstream regardless of your hatred for it. And don't get me wrong I fucking hate it too, I just have the abilty to accept for what it is and not let it get in the way of my music. |
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Location: ranson,wva | well said temp,they are pioneers in their own rights....its all on peoples tastes and ability to accept it as mainstream music..or more so modern music. many music styles have crossed into the pop genre, most of todays country i would consider pop...its total shit. but thats just my opinion.....jason |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Sure ain't Earl Scruggs and Lester Flatt...
But my Country Lovin' Stepfather thought Skynyrd, Blackfoot, and the Allman Brothers stanketh too. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Arthur, relisten to the song I'm referring to: The Message by Grandmaster Flash. Given what life was like in the Bronx at the time, it was chilling.
PS: in NYC, Dude, means dummy.
PSS: I love Earl Scruggs. |
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Location: Oregon | They're no pioneers. Someone just posted on another link, "All music is noise, not all noise is music." You can sing some lyrics over someone else's music 50 cent? My your amazing!
My stance on this is obvious. |
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Location: Round Rock, TX | I maintain my own Hall of Fame. It's the only one I care about. And, demonstrating the balanced nature of the universe, I'm the only one who seems to care about it. |
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Location: ms | Blackfoot now that was a rock and roll band. I saw them open up for KISS, they blew KISS away. I left after about two songs from KISS.A bit of useless trivia but true, in about 1978 i dated Blackfoots singers X girlfriend for a while. Now she had storys to tell about Ricky and the rest of the guys. By the way who was the blonde chick that sang for Van Halen? O yea it was David Lee Roth... |
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Location: NJ | ". . Also this year the induction is held in NYC, why not Cleavland? . ."
The Induction Ceremonies have been held in New York City EVERY year since before there ever WAS a physical "Hall of Fame".
The entire concept of a Hall of Fame was the brain-child of (NewYorker) Ahmet Ertegun.
Sorry, but the "Mistake on the Lake" pales in comparison to the Waldorf-Astoria. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Ditto. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by an4340:
PS: in NYC, Dude, means dummy.
PSS: I love Earl Scruggs. "Dude" almost got my li'l butt kicked by the LAPD!
I don't think it is a complement ANYWHERE.
No, I actually remember when Rap was poetry, with background music. I also remember when it had alot of Political wherewithal. Rappers talked about poverty and injustice. The rich subjugating the poor. They were the Folk-Poets of their generation. I remember rapper-poets in the Washington Sq. Park (dry) fountain, and under the Arch in the rain. (While we waited our turn to sing Bob Dylan for silver & green)
Now the rappers wear bling, and emulate the rich slobs who used to be the enemy. Also idolize the violence of the ghetto, instead of finding a cure for it. (But they don't have to live there anymore)
And now, a bunch of silver-spoon-fed white suburbanite kids idolize this crap. |
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Location: ms | Ani Difranco does political rap pretty well. |
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Location: Wooster, Ohio | Selling out the Waldorf does come at a price.
"The main criticism is that the nomination process is controlled by a few individuals, such as founder Jann Wenner, former foundation director Suzan Evans, and writer Dave Marsh, reflecting their tastes rather than the views of the rock world as a whole. A former member of the nominations board once said:
At one point Suzan Evans lamented the choices being made because there weren't enough big names that would sell tickets to the dinner. That was quickly remedied by dropping one of the doo-wop groups being considered in favor of a 'name' artist ... I saw how certain pioneering artists of the 50s and early 60s were shunned because there needed to be more name power on the list, resulting in 70s superstars getting in before the people who made it possible for them. Some of those pioneers still aren't in today — but Queen is.[1]
Petitions with tens of thousands of signatures were also being ignored and some groups that were signed with certain labels or companies or were affiliated with various committee members have even been put up for nomination with no discussion at all.[1]"
Where is Drew Carey when you need him?
Steve
Wooster Ohio |
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Location: NJ | he's banging hookers in Vegas. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | I'm with Temp on this...
There was a day when Blues wasn't "REAL" music and Rock&Rock was just a short-lived musical aberration the kids listened to...
Rap is no different.
HAVE YOU BECOME YOUR PARENTS?!...(GRANDPARENTS!?)
(... must admit, I'd rather support Rap than this scourge know as American Idol... THANK John Logie Baird, my TV has an Off Switch) |
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Location: NJ | Remember how much of a "DISGRACE" the "Charleston" was back in it's day?? |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | I support all musical forms that show Thigh... |
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Location: ms | I don`t want to see any thighs on this forum the bra was enough to do me for a long time. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I think Temp and 45flint's posts some it all up.
I will only add that the most disappointment I feel with regard to the whole thing is when an inducted artist references their "inspiration" and that muse is a member of the legions of artists or groups who will never be inducted. It's a lot like George Lucas, Orson Welles and others that have never received Oscars. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | 45flint quote--"The main criticism is that the nomination process is controlled by a few individuals, such as founder Jann Wenner, former foundation director Suzan Evans, and writer Dave Marsh, reflecting their tastes rather than the views of the rock world as a whole."
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In an interview, John Cougar Melon-head said that he would never get into the Hall of Fame cuz he has pissed them off. (Don't know if he's in there or not) But that does show the politics of the deal.
Also, Things like that may be more related to sales, than perceived talent.
I know I am guilty of bias. I liked early rap, when they made no money and were different. Now, that I have to listen to it every time a Boom-Car goes by... It is just Annoying.
Also "If it's too loud, You're too Old!" Well, I may be... |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Originally posted by cliff:
Remember how much of a "DISGRACE" the "Charleston" was ...?? Nope. But I'll take your word for it. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Well I watched some of the inductions last night and I have to admit that they seem to be at least trying this year. Ronnette's and Patty Smith are examples of people who have been referenced more than once by already inducted members as the reason they are in music at all. Although I didn't see the induction, I question Van Halen's induction as a group based on the qualifications to be inducted. Eddie definately, but not sure about as a group. REM qualifies, but then again, so does a lot of groups that have been around a lot longer and are more influential.
oh well.... as they say... click |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Rap is not music. The C is silent.
When they are letting this sh!t in then it's time to get out. It ain't rock and roll anymore.
click. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Regardless of other deserving candidates, REM absolutely deserves it.
Patty was long overdue... as were, the Ronnettes.
I can't even speak the name of that, most famous of all 80's hair bands... but I'll acquiesce to Miles on the induction of their sole talent and lead guitarist. Blech. |
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Location: North Carolina | All of these halls of fame are just so much horseshit. I don't care who they put in them for all the real value any of it has. |
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Location: NJ | well I like grandmaster flash. I remember going to clubs and hearing that stuff. I would add gil scot heron to the list also but few after that.
as for the monkees yes
as for cleveland..... it was never held there afaik.
in fact, If I am not mistaken they did not even do a ceremony last year.
I loved how ronnie spector did her best not to mention phil and then paul schaeffer reads a note from him which i presumed was from jail LOL.
patti smith was great, I know her guitar player lenny kaye and e mailed him after the ceremony he was on cloud nine. |
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Location: ranson,wva | didnt ronnie spector sing with eddie money on a few songs?? i think the one was take me home tonight?? jason |
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Location: south east Michigan | I loved how ronnie spector did her best not to mention phil and then paul schaeffer reads a note from him.
And the crowd responded with amost dead silence. I felt embarrased for Schaeffer. |
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Location: Parrish, FL | I felt embarrased for Schaeffer I usually am. He never has impressed me. Perhaps if he didn't try so hard he wouldn't be so annoying. |
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Location: Australia | Originally posted by cwk2:
Rap is not music. The C is silent.
When they are letting this sh!t in then it's time to get out. It ain't rock and roll anymore.
click. Couldn't agree more.
....but then again I now hate all these stupid meaningless awards/hall of fame shows including the Emmys, Grammys, Oscars and this thing
The only reason for them is promotion to flog more tickets, albums, DVD's etc etc |
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Location: NJ | Originally posted by BluesSailor:
I felt embarrased for Schaeffer I usually am. He never has impressed me. Perhaps if he didn't try so hard he wouldn't be so annoying. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Gee Al, is that just Paul Schaeffer's TV persona? Or is he a nerd in real life? [and I don't mean "nerd" in the good way] |
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Location: NJ | I met him in a club in Manhattan once, and he was a total dick . . .
(he IS a damn good keyboard player, tho . . .) |
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Location: ms | One of the horn players Tom "BONES" Malone is from my hometown. I`m friends with his cousin Bruce Byrd also a great horn player. I met Tom when i was very young and did not see him again until about he time the Blues Brothers came out he seemed like a nice guy. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Originally posted by alpep:
The man is an amazing talent with an encyclopedic knowledge of songs but annoying as anything. Just your average Canadian Guy. It's the education system....
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Originally posted by alpep:
the man is an amazing talent with an encyclopedic knowledge of soms but annoying as anything. DING! DING! DING!
and we have a winner! |
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Location: Up North | Paul Schaeffer is probably the most famous native son from Thunder Bay, except for the hockey playing Staal brothers, Eric, Marc, Jared and Jordan.
I think the big city lights burnt any small town humility out of him years ago. |
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Location: Rocky River, Ohio | |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I, too, am not much for the words and messages being sold in rap music these days, but the idea of rhythmic stuccato phrasing has been around for 130 years. Just listen to any Gilbert and Sullivan patter song. About 15 years ago, I wrote a rap song that served as a rewrite of the "Night Before Christmas" story. It was published locally and then performed 17 times by, among others, the Colorado Symphony Orchestra and Chorus, and the Colorado Children's Chorale during the Christmas Pops concert series here in Denver. The positive feedback was overwhelming. Rap does not have to be crude and intimidating. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Country Rap pre-dates them all.
Tennese Ernie Ford
Big Bad John
Convoy (It was the dark of the moon on the 6th of June) |
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Location: big island | Uneasy Rider (Charlie Daniels) "i was takin' a trip out to LA, toolin' along in my chevrolet, i was tokin' on a number and diggin' on the radio..."
Boy Named Sue
and just about anything by Red Sovine
to name a few more |
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Location: Tennessee | Year Of The Guru - Eric Burdon & The Animals. What they did in 1968 might well be the blueprint for the rap music industry. |
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Location: closely held secret | "Spill the wine"?
No, wait, that was with War. ;) |
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Location: Cherry Hill, NJ | Subterranean Homesick Blues, by Dylan is often credited as the first popular rap song. |
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Location: Atlanta, GA. | I've always considered rap as a music genre for anyone without musical talent and no singing voice.
I don't mind it, as long as I don't have to hear it! |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | My only comment on rap is that I've never thought of Rap as a musical form. In music there is Rock, Country, Soul, Blues etc etc etc.. Rap is Rap adn there are genre's of it also. Much like Dance is Dance and may involve music, Rap is Rap and may involve music. It's a form of expression. I think the industry clouds this too, but it is what it is. Comparing Rap as a whole to music is like comparing a banana and a pencil. Either may involve the color yellow, but that's about it, two totally different things.
Like I mentioned earlier, maybe they (the hall of fame) is really finally feeling the heat and maybe going to turn into something more historic. A visit to the Country Music Hall Of Fame in Nashville is worthwhile. It's what the Rock'n Roll hall of fame "should" have been. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Originally posted by Grif:
Paul Schaeffer is probably the most famous native son from Thunder Bay, except for the hockey playing Staal brothers, Eric, Marc, Jared and Jordan.
I think the big city lights burnt any small town humility out of him years ago. I thought is was the "Hanson Brothers"
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | another "Rappish" tune... "Memo From Turner" - The Stones |
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Location: Up North | Jeff, I think you're probably thinking of Goldie Goldthorpe, he was from Thunder Bay
The real life person who was supposed to be "Oggie Oglethorpe" they thought he was so crazy when they filmed this they didn't let him be in the film because they thought he'd take a run at Paul Newman. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by fillhixx:
Originally posted by alpep:
The man is an amazing talent with an encyclopedic knowledge of songs but annoying as anything. Just your average Canadian Guy. It's the education system....
I thought it was genetic... |
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Location: Up North | No, it's the damn cold winters! |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Cold winters?
Yeah, um okay.
............................................
OMA; Nope, it's not genetic. We think of it more as full-press punning, but something gets lost in the translation, apparently. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Fillhixx, was it you who said that when Canadians are rude, obnoxious, or drunk in other countries they just tell folks that they are American? [meaning: from the USofA] |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | What you'all tawkin' 'bout?  |
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OT Rock & Roll Hall of Fame