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Location: CA | Here's my story: Got an 1111-4 model brand new in 1971 and still have it and still play it. But have avoided other Ovations over the years because I really don't like the neck of this guitar, specifically the narrow nut width. But for casual playing and living near the ocean, it has held up well.
So this guy I work with comes in one day a month or so ago with an Ultra Deluxe Korean shallow-body (1528D) he's just picked up for cheap. I play it and, in so many words LOVE IT. The neck is just the right width at the nut and in profile is slim and very comfortable. I get on FleaBay and whaddya know, there's another UD right there in front of me with an hour to go. I bid. I buy. I get an okay deal, PLUS, the guy is about 30 minutes away so I endure the traffic but save the shipping.
Well, you can probably see this coming. I get it home and it doesn't sound anywhere near as good at the buddy's. I mean, the serial numbers are only a few thousand apart, but they might as well be a million. His, with the natural finish, sounds brighter and livelier than mine, which has some kind of very pretty quilted something wood on top. New strings and a pro setup improved mine quite a bit, but unplugged, it still lacks a brightness that his has. Of course, they both sound fine plugged in. I do some research (better late than never). I learn that all UDs had 'laminated' tops. Some were better than others. Okay, fine.
So now I'm on a mission. I do more research and figure the only way I'm going to get a nice unplugged sound and feel is to get an American made O. Yes, I'd like a new Custom Legend LX as much as the next guy, but, well, that used standard Balladeer doesn't look so bad. Again, I get on the Bay and right there is this 1998 Balladeer that the guy says he's played once and he needs the $$ for health reasons and he'll let it go for $375 INCLUDING shipping. I look around a bit more and that seems like a decent deal. So I 'buy it now.'
The guitar arrived today. Burgundy burst is not exactly my favorite color, but hey, even with ancient (perhaps original) strings, this guitar sounds NICE. The neck is not the same shallow section, but the nut width is okay and I can get used to the neck. It needs a pro setup and lower (and new) strings, but I kinda do that with all guitars right off. The best part of all this? The is not a mark on this guitar. Not one pick scuff. I could use the finish to shave in it's so crystal clear. The worst part — and this is a first for me: This thing smells like a 20-year-old ashtray that's never been dumped. I'm not kidding. It REEKS. I just noodled around with it for 20 minutes and feel like I've been in an Italian bar for the last two days. I feel like emailing the guy back and saying, "Hey Mr. Health Issue — STOP SMOKING YOU IDIOT!"
So anyway, I'm headed in the right direction soundwise. This isn't 'the' guitar but it's getting closer. Will probably now list the UD back on the Bay and with better pics and the nice setup maybe make a few $$. Which brings me to a few of questions of those of you who have made it this far:
1. Any idea of how I can get this incredibly strong cigarette smoke smell out of the guitar except to leave the case outside, open for about a year?
2. Given that all guitars sound individually different and some laminate tops sound great and some solid wood ones don't — given all that, is there a NOTICEABLE difference between your average Legend and your average Balladeer? Is it worth a continued quest to keep upgrading?
3. Finally, what's with the necks? Any sort of archive or timeline on neck width, cross section, etc? Did all Balladeers haveone neck and all Legends a different one? Or were they all the same, but changed over the years?
Thanks for enduring. |
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Posts: 97
Location: North Cal. mountains | I only have one (PERFECT, I hit the jackpot my first time) Ovation FD-14, so I can't answer to anything but the smell. I used to refinish old furniture and if they were small I would put them in a box with a glass of vinegar for a few days. It helped. Do keep the case open. It takes a while, but it will get less offensive. The wood is thinner than furniture wood, so you should have a great guitar that smells like vinegar and smoke for about a month. It's worth getting a big enough box to give it a try.
Good luck, and I hope your luthier smokes so he doesn't hurry any work. Julie |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Welcome Oddball---
1) Others may have a more professional solution [like Jujurock's], but I would try "Febreeze" or "Oust" on the case's inner fur. (read directions carefully-- some of these products can be sprayed directly on fabrics, some cannot)
Then place a "refrigerator box" of Arm & Hammer baking soda in the goody box of the case. And/or a sock full of ground coffee in with the guitar.
2) Two of my O's have solid tops, one laminate (plywood). They all sound different. But the chinese GC057 definitely needs to be plugged-in. It is the same sized as my Korean Balladeer (which does have a solid top), but there is a definite difference.
3) ??? Don't really know. Mine are all alittle different, but not so much that it affects my playing. |
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Location: CA | Thanks Julie. I may take the strings off and put a glass of vinegar inside the bowl to test your recommendation. Anything is better than the stench now. However, it kinda makes me wonder if tobacco smoke might improve tonal quality of spruce, cause for not being played much, this thing sounds pretty sweet. Wouldn't that be a discovery, tho.
Didn't even think about the Luthier. If he doesn't smoke, he's going to clear out the back room for sure with this thing. LOL. I'll just be happy if it doesn't set off the sprinkler ssytem in the store. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Welcome and excellent questions!
JJ - Since you got the right guitar first try you won't ever need another one? ;> :rolleyes:
1. Any idea of how I can get this incredibly strong cigarette smoke smell out of the guitar.
Start with a warm cloth using distilled vinegar and water, same as you flush through the coffee pot. Follow with the Dunlop 65 polish. My personal favorite masking device is to wax the top using a carnuba wax. Smells like a warm beach but in a good way. Don't put the guitar back in the smelly old case! Wall hangers are the best! Then wash the case using the same or some other mild detergent, let it air dry.
2. Is there a NOTICEABLE difference between your average Legend and your average Balladeer? Is it worth a continued quest to keep upgrading?
The difference in price is due to the quality level of materials and hands-on work (Labor equates to $$). So Ebony vs. Rosewood, tighter grain vs. damn good anyway, seven layers of binding vs. five, Abalone vs. Plastique, are the differences. Also to consider is the "era" the guitar was made, and the availability of certain materials for production use. The higher end exists so that snobs like me can admire and appreciate them - at a cost. Truthfully you are more dependant on the design and integrity of the item. Ovations design is considerably stronger and more dependable. It works whether the top is ply, one piece, plastic, Carbon sandwich or whatever. A top of the line solid wood top will age and sound better in the end but there are many factors that can help or detract in the formula.
I say go as far as you can afford. It's like when you go to trade in your car - that little extra bling or two more cylinders can make a difference!
3. Finally, what's with the necks? Any sort of archive or timeline on neck width, cross section, etc?
Check out the freshly made chart at www.ovationtribute.com and see the widths, and mucho more data!
Over the 40 or so years of Ovation the technology, materials and direction have weaved and wobbled on what is "the right" neck/bowl/whatever.
Just when you think you have it figured out someone says "Here, play this one".
OFC gatherings are a must! You can play 40 years of history and 20 catalogs worth of guitars.
It's really about the time people share together. |
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Posts: 672
Location: New South Wales, Australia | G'day Oddball and welcome.
It's been three weeks today since my last "cancer stick" and my sense of smell has just returned. Hope you're able to get that baby smelling sweet again. |
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Location: North Cal. mountains | Always listen to the old guys! I didn't even think of OUST or Febreeze. I really wasn't even thinking of the case lining. Great idea, though.
There is nothing "professional" about the vinegar thing, and now that you mention it, maybe if you do try it you should cover the nuts with something to protect them from oxidation..
Hey, fellas, if this could hurt the guitar, please let this guy know.
Don't try it until you get a few more opinions and even call your luthier to make sure it's okay. I have never done this with an instrument.
Time works, too. Hell, hang a little tree inside! :D |
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Posts: 97
Location: North Cal. mountains | I didn't say I got the right GUITAR the first time, just the right Ovation for me. :rolleyes:
In my youth I played my share of chain-link fences. Smarty pants.
But wow, great advice. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Time works, too. Hell, hang a little tree inside! :D
You can get Ovation car de-stinkers on E-baaa. |
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Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | :D
One part distilled white vinegar to five parts water. Damp cloth.
DO NOT DUNK!
For my fellow worship guitarists this is one time that total immersion is not required!
You need a catalyst to unbound the tobacco residue. |
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Location: North Cal. mountains | Take it to a Catholic church an have it blessed. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Would a "possessed" guitar sound any better? |
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Location: North Cal. mountains | No, I was just thinking that it might magically become his perfect guitar.
Seriously, Oddball, MWoody is right about the OFC Conference. You would find which is your 'perfect' guitar. |
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Location: CA | Well geez Louise, thanks everybody — and all of you here on a lovely Saturday night. Don't you have lives? LOL.
I cringe at the thought of anything actually touching this guitar so might save the vinegar rubdowns as a last resort. I like the febreeze thing and may try a 'fuzzy dice' air freshener in the bowl. Perhaps start a new fad. I think Ozwatto may have 'struck a chord' so to speak. Now that I've gotten it off the cancer sticks, I'll just let it air out a few weeks until its breath clears up.
Thanks much again for opinions, smell remedies and some interesting conversation for a foggy Saturday night. I am new here so not quite sure where or when OFC conferences occur, but being in NorCal it seems like I'm a bit geographically challenged, yes? |
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Location: New South Wales, Australia | Originally posted by Oddball:
Well geez Louise, thanks everybody — and all of you here on a lovely Saturday night. Don't you have lives? LOL.
Unfortunately for us downunder it's Sunday afternoon and it's raining here so the weekend is all but over. Hope you can air it out Oddball -- maybe you could try some nicotine patches if all else fails :D |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | What about trying the vinegar in a Plant Waves Soundhole Humidifier? |
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Location: Hiram, Georgia | overnight with an ozone generator, maybe you could rent one... |
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Location: Up North | Oddball.
Try putting a cup of fresh coffee grounds in a paper bag small enough to fit in the soundhole, put it in the case for a couple days. the smell should be greatly reduced, try that a couple times, maybe with a sponge soaked in vinegar on a tiny bowl or plate, if it would fit under the neck in the case, just make sure it doesn't contact anything. Using the coffee & vinegar together have gotten rid of some real funky odors on a few of my own ebay purchases.
Dave |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Most of the smell will be inside the guitar. The finish on the outside won't absorb as much and can be cleaned off. My 99 Collector was a real smoker when I bought it. After a few weeks of hanging on the wall in a smoke free room, it went away. I just doubt there is a quick fix because the wood inside the guitar has probably absorbed a lot of smoke and it needs to be aire out. Don't put it back in the smokey case and don't do anything that would plug the soundhole, unless you keep replacing whatever you use to absorb the smell.
Grif just posted as I was typing this. The coffee may work. I like the smell of coffee, but my wife doesn't. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Freshly ground Kona... |
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Location: Up North | maybe Lanaki can send you some of the real stuff from the islands... |
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Location: Alberta, Canada | How about Dr Scholls Odor Eaters? One in the case, one in the bowl. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | or just stick one to your upper lip... |
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Location: big island | Originally posted by colt357:
How about Dr Scholls Odor Eaters? One in the case, one in the bowl. i had a friend who tried Odor Eaters once. no one has seen him since. |
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Location: big island | if coffee works to remove smoke odor, how come people who smoke and drink coffee smell twice as bad instead of better? (no offense intended) |
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Location: Up North | The coffee grounds absorb the smell, not just replace it with the smell of the coffee. It's a trick an antique store owner told me about. He used it to get rid of all kinds of funky odors from cigarettes to moth balls. |
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Location: big island | hey grif,
i was bein' a bit facetious.
i was in the food brokerage business for several years. when the plan-o-grams were drawn up for the store layout we used to be very careful what items were stocked near the coffee, rice, flour and candy sections cuz all these items would end up tasting like whatever they were placed near for any length of time. improved packaging has helped that situation out.
i have used cedar balls to remove odors and moisture here in hawaii with great results. they can be purchased at just about any wallymart or hardware store. |
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Location: Up North | No problem Lanaki, it's interesting about store layout, confirms that coffee is a smell sponge.
the smell of cedar can't be beat. |
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Location: SF Bay area | I was recently at a guitar store and was asking about a new case. When I told the manager that my case reeked, (bought it used), he went in his backroom and came out with a red can of spray on carpet cleaner. Told me to spray it on, let it dry and vacumn. Worked pretty good, I tried baking soda and even threw it all over the case in the furry lining. It didn't help at all. It works in my fridge though! |
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Location: Hiram, Georgia | hey Lanaki, did they ever find the odor eater that ate you friend? |
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Location: Orange County, California | Has anyone suggested the Arm & Hammer Baking soda fridge deodorizer? |
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Location: big island | Originally posted by philmax:
hey Lanaki, did they ever find the odor eater that ate you friend?  |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Yeah Slot-Head Fred... I said that yesterday, and I still think it is a good idea. Along with Oust, Febreeze, and carpet fresh.
Second option... Live with it, and visualize smoky folk-poet-bluesy-jazz bars. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | |
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Ovation Quest - It's a long story