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Location: Up North | After reading the link that CWK2 provided about the Collings Clarence White CW-28 that he just sold to Tupperware, it seems that the first thing most new owners do is switch the bone saddle & nut for fossil or fresh ivory.
I've noticed that MWoody is selling off some bone nut blanks as well. Has anyone switched to bone, fossil or fresh ivory with their O's nut and saddle, (I'm assuming non-electric for the saddle)? What changes do each make, or is it a snobbery thing?
Just curious. |
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Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | I've got a bone saddle in my '76 CBalladeer, and it does enhance the overall tone. Kinda' "opens things up" a bit.
Electrically, the same holds true, but not as much (this IS with a lowly FET3 pre-amp). |
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Location: Omaha, NE | I put an elephant ivory saddle in my Taylor last year (those come with Tusq from the factory). Frankly, I can't hear any difference. And I often wonder if the differences that people do hear are a function of a carefully hand fit saddle, vs a parts-bin fit from the factory, rather than because of saddle material.
As for the nut, that's a lot harder job and far less likely to deliver any sonic or tonal changes. Unless you need a new nut anyway, I wouldn't bother changing it out just for the sake of the material.
If you do decide to ivory up, take a look at www.guitarsaddles.com. |
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Posts: 425
Location: SE Michigan | Personally I think you get the best sonic responses if the saddle and nut are fabricated from fozzilized Mastodon toe nail clippings, however these are only effective if carved by Inuit virgins during nights of a full moon. That and string tubes fashioned from hummingbird intestines will get you the best overall tone.
But seriously, It is hard for me to accept that changing these materials makes that big of a difference. ANd if it does make a difference it must be so far down the list of things that effect tone, such as the top, the strings, and the technique.
I wonder if anyone has done any scientific testing of all this nonsense, probably not because those Inuit virgins have to make a living. I think it's rather like the placebo effect with drugs, in other words it's in all in your head.
But put all this obsessing about nuts and ivory into some serious practice time and I'll bet anyone would sound a whole lot better. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Whale penis bone. |
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Location: Up North | So is that what you've put in your CW-28? You must need an extra-sturdy wallhanger for that one! |
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Location: SoCal | I put a bone saddle into my GC DB, but I can't say for certain that it made that big a difference even tho' there was a huge difference from the old saddle set up. The old saddle was very shallow, had about 6 dozen shims under it, and was very loose. The bone saddle has no shims and is snug in the saddle slot. I would guess that having the saddle flush against the bottom of the saddle slot and snug against the sides makes a huge difference in vibration transfer from the strings to the body. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | The saddle is the biggest one. Putting a bone or something harded than plastic will get you more tone. The nuts aren't so important but since you're doing one might as well do both. A bone saddle on the original style Ovation pickup will make a big difference.
Bone vs ivory vs mastadon penal tendons etc, not a big difference. But compared to a plastic one, you can usually tell.
Hope that answers your question. |
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Location: Up North | Thanks everyone for the info and insights.
Would the factory be able to install bone saddle and nut on my 1537 while she's there? |
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Location: SoCal | Bill, when you talk about a bone saddle in the original pickup, what component of the p/u are you talking about? That little white v shaped part on top? Something underneath? |
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Location: NJ | Those six little "pyramids" that the strings rest on is all ONE PIECE.
It's held onto the pickup assy. with silicone.
When I replaced mine, I didn't have silicone handy. Rubber paper cement worked just fine. |
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Location: Up North | mmmm... rubber cement..
Sorry, just had a flashback, probably from too much.. rubber cement... |
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Location: NJ | The secret's in the "thinner" . . . . |
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Location: SoCal | Cliff, those "little pyramids" can be popped off individually.... |
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Location: NJ | Not on the three pickups that I'VE taken apart, they can't (unless you BREAK 'em apart) . . .
The black saddle on my LongNeck was the one that was on my CBalladeer til I replaced THAT one w/the bone one. |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Interesting Comments,but it`s really about Hard vs.Soft(er) materials,and weight ,More weight = More Sustain (this counts for the Saddle)when it comes to Bone,it`s quality is a deciding factor,my ZEPEDA ,wich is totally Handmade ,has Bone Nut and Saddle,the Luthier (Sergio Zepeda)found them bones who knows where,the Nut shows even some traces of blood on the upperside,I still have to change that one,Once this happened,the Case (Warwick Rockcase 6mm ply)Fell over,with the Guitar in it,Immediately I took the Guitar out,and Played on it,There was this Awful Buzz on the E-bass,Case had fallen on it`s Lid,weight of guitar had Pushed the E-bass Into the Nut !! Took me sometime to figure that out though,now I`ve slipped a piece of Felt between String and Nut,wich actually Improved the Bass (go figure)that`s the reason why I have n`t changed the Nut yet,so Choice of Hard/Soft materials CAN have a Significant Effect on the Sound, as a Starting Point I use TUSQUE ,on the O`s, I Stick to the original Saddle/P U`s,Might change the Nuts to TUSQUE...but them Nuts have been on them since they left the mothership,they have been holding up well...sooo...but maybe one day....I Refuse to be driven Nuts ..I will not go Nuts......they`re comin`to take me away..they`re comin`to take me away..ahaaa..to the funny farm..with nice young men..in crisp white coats..they`re comin`to take me away..hahaaa....
Vic :cool: |
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Location: Simpsonville, SC | Can't speak for replacement of saddle and/or nut on an O..But I had both replaced on my 31 year Epiphone 2 weeks ago and all I can say is,,@#?*$%!..it took a nice little beater and made that 31 year top SING (it immediately was removed from my 2 and 1/2 year old Grandsons guitar that he can play with list)...My wife asked why I was playing this one a little more than the others..for the type of music (easy acoustic, 60's and 70's) It just rings true. It still can't beat my Elite overall, but I can't wait until it ages some more. (if I live that long)
Jim |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | U mean that you bought a Silent guitar 31 yrs.ago..?..and I bet that in them 60`s-70`s U thought that acoustic was n`t that easy,.. :) Sir , I dare calling U an Experienced Player ;)
Vic :cool: |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Moody, it's the 6 piece top thingy that really is just one piece but looks separate. They can have a bone or ceramic one made and they are around $100. I've got both and the sound is about the same but is MUCH better than the normal delrin plastic. This was something Debanjo got me to do years ago and Damn if that banjo layer didn't have a good idea that worked! |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | " They can have a bone or ceramic one made and they are around $100. I've got both and the sound is about the same but is MUCH better than the normal delrin plastic. "
Does that include the P U ( complete assembly) ?
I`m thinkin`about replacing the P U`s,after all,they`re well over 20 yrs.old,so I guess that the piezo elements have compressed by now.
Vic :cool: |
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Location: Athens, GA & Gnashville | Maybe cwk2 was talking about the ORIGINAL O pickup, which was a Baldwin Prismatone and a one piece saddle? |
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Location: Athens, GA & Gnashville | Originally posted by Goober:
Maybe cwk2 was talking about the ORIGINAL O pickup, which was a Baldwin Prismatone and a one piece saddle? Edit...so...I was wrong. Poo! |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | no it's the metal U channel with all the chrystals and goop in it. just put the bone or ceramic piece on top of that instead of delrin. NOT the old baldwin, the Ovation one that ruled the world for the 70's and most of the 80's. |
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Location: North Cal. mountains | I will leave my fd-14 exactly as it was when I bought it new. The sound is just fine, thank you.
As for the others? I tend to leave well enough alone. If I didn't like them, I would not have brought them home.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | " If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Ah,but us boys like to play with cars... ;)
Vic :cool: |
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Posts: 97
Location: North Cal. mountains | By the way, somebody mentioned nostalgia.
Did any of you ever fill a nut groove with super glue to get rid of fret buzz? Or put a bit of matchbook board in your bridge?
Always remember from whence you came.
Simple was good, when it needed to to be. |
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Location: North Cal. mountains | I bought and sold cars for years. I don't get my hands dirty anymore.
Also dealt in antiques. Altered artifacts are always less valuable.
So go for it. You'll make me rich.
Of course, ebony, ivory and bone will not decrease the value. Even.
But that poor one on oo-bay needs saving. (The one with the gorgeous top and the sad head?.)
Save that. |
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Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | "They can have a bone or ceramic one made and they are around $100" ...
Hmmmm ... sounds like a good idea. Almost all of my O plastic saddles have developed significant wear and have those annoying groves in them. Perhaps I'll save up and start switching them out. (AFTER I pay for my daughters wedding) ): |
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Location: Simpsonville, SC | U mean that you bought a Silent guitar 31 yrs.ago..?..and I bet that in them 60`s-70`s U thought that acoustic was n`t that easy,.. Sir , I dare calling U an Experienced Player Enfant, this was my first guitar and it wasn't as loud compared to my O's..unfortunatly after about five years of playing it went in the case and closet. 25 years later I have returned to playing..I prefer to call myself a Refound, Renewed Beginner. (and having the time of my life).
A luthier suggested that I not replace the saddle on my 1867 with bone because it may not transfer the vibrations consistently or correctly to the pickups. What do you experts think? Have you done this ? How does it sound?
Jim |
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Saddle & nut - bone, fossil or fresh ivory?