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| Anyone know how Ovation grades their tops? Are they chosen strictly on a cosmetic basis like Martin does, or some other way? My early 80's Legend has a AAA grade top, and my Anniversary has a Hand Picked grade. I had a Custom Legend that also had the Hand Picked top. At some point, I'm not sure when, the Legend switched to AA grade, and the Custom Legend to AAA grade. I don't even know if they use the Hand Picked tops any more. Just wondered if they actually sound better, or just look nicer.
Mike |
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Location: Athens, GA & Gnashville | I heard that they hold the tops up against artificial sunlight to see if there are any religious icons in the grain.
AA=Mother Teresa
;) :D |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | And if they find a shadowy image of Jesus, it's heading for eBay! |
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Location: Athens, GA & Gnashville | Buddha tops are reserved for deep bowl only! |
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Location: big island | Complete this sentence:
"And if they find a shadowy image of Al:____________" |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Buddha tops are reserved for deep bowl only! Just pat the Belly for Luck!
And this needs it's own thread:
Complete this sentence:
"And if they find a shadowy image of Al:____________" |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Can you say "Marketing Spew" ???
My own personal theory is that, at any given time the best stuff in the house is called AAA, followed by AA, etc. Note that todays AAA might be inferior to last weeks AA. Starting to see the spew? When a new model is introduced and the ad space has room for 4 lines of text, but the MP's only have 3 lines of truth they come up with something like "hand selected", etc. for the 4th line. You gettin it, now? Isn't ALL wood hand selected? What, they got some R2D2 that picks out and grades the wood. Come on ... |
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Location: Rocky River, Ohio | R2D2....
that, was funny. |
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Location: Cherry Hill, NJ | I think it has something to do with those small batteries. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | you have to leave the light off when grading tops. |
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Location: NJ | . . . that's what she said . . . |
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Location: Athens, GA & Gnashville | ...last night... |
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Location: Navarre Beach, FL | Practically everyone on this board is far more knowledgeable than I; however, I may be able to give you some insight into grading as a general rule. Of course there are many variables that go into the grading process, such as grain density and taptone: however, taptone (or voicing the top) is considered very subjective and requires a very experienced person to properly assess a top for tonal quality. If you are interested, the URL below contains an article concerning toning from a widely recognized authority, Dana Bourgeois:
http://www.pantheonguitars.com/voicing.htm
Basically, The primary attributes that are most commonly used to grade soundboards for Master, AAA, AA, and A have to do with grain density, stiffness, and runoff. Frankly, the higher the density the stiffer/harder the wood.
Master Grade: This MAY be what Ovation considers "hand select", but I would be skeptical of that due to the apparent rarity. A Master grade top will only occurs in maybe 1 out of 500 tops produced, and will have 20+ grain lines per inch, no run out, no coloration and straight, even grain over the entire guitar top.
AAA: a soundboard with a grain count of 16 - 20 per inch and should have consistent annular ring spacing, and be exceptionally stiff.
AA: is a good grade with slightly wider grain spacing consisting of a grain count of 12+ grains per inch, with some color variations and runout.
A: is good "tonewood", it may sound as good as AA with some deep lows, but may have wide grain spacing, less cross grain stiffness and thicker “winter” grain (the dark part of the annular rings).
When I was first researching grading, runoff was somewhat confusing, but it primarily has to do with the way the cut is made. Below is an excerpt from a lutherie article.
"If the tops have been cut from radially sawn planks as is often the case with German spruce, there can be some grain runout through the length of the top. If the angle of the runout is steep enough, this can cause a weakening along the grain. It is visible in guitars and other instrument tops as a “two tone” effect".
Finally, who can say with complete assurance that Ovation is adhering to the generally accepted grade standards; however, I would assert with reasonable assurance that they are very close, if not exact in their gradings. Please keep in mind that this is generalized description of grading,which is a complex subject; however, I feel it is reasonably accurate from a layman's perspective.
I hope this help in some small way to explain, at least superficially the grades. |
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Location: Up North | Thanks for demystifying top grading BlackOps and Welcome |
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Location: big island | aloha BlackOps! mahalo for the insight and welcome a"board" ` pun intended. |
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Location: Navarre Beach, FL | Thanks for the warm reception guys... Since I joined, I've been very impressed with the friendliness of members and the immensity of the combined knowledge on this board. I've learn a great deal...
Again, thank you for the hearty welcome. As for the pun Lanaki... the pain, oh the pain! :)
Aloha! |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | the A tops get to be AAAs at closing time.... |
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Location: NJ | I've heard that . . (or something similar) . . |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Goggles on, gents... |
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Location: Alberta, Canada | Originally posted by cwk2:
you have to leave the light off when grading tops. The best are better with the lights on. |
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Location: South of most, North of few | BlackOps has given a great deal of insight on this one, but I would have to agree with Tupp, I would guess they only have whats in stock to compare to. Bottom line is: looks are nice, but the sound is the thing that makes a guitar a "keeper". |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | So, what's a colorless, no-runout, 35-to-40 grains-per-inch spruce top grade-out to? Happens I know a guy, who knows a guy...... |
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Location: ranson,wva | how owes a guy..... |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Geez, if BlackOps criteria is generally accurate, the price-o'-poker may be goin' up real fast in YakiVegas! |
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Location: Rocky River, Ohio | I always wondered where that 2 tone effect came from.
I've seen many ovation tops that have clear differences in color between the left and right sides. |
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| One would think that these wouldn't get out the door, but I've seen this on high dollar Martin's, as well. So, it's hard to say what the stained tops might look like underneath.
Mike |
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Location: NJ | Alot of the left/right tonal differences can be attribited to light be refracted/reflected thru the finish off of tha grain(s) in different directions (due the grain being a "mirror image").
The effect is often accentuated in flash/digital photographs. |
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Location: Tennessee | Originally posted by cliff:
Alot of the left/right tonal differences can be attribited to light be refracted/reflected thru the finish off of tha grain(s) in different directions (due the grain being a "mirror image").
The effect is often accentuated in flash/digital photographs. Case in point, here is a photo of my Viper. It has a beautiful book matched top and looks perfectly normal under normal conditions. But when the light hits it just right:
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Location: Alberta, Canada | Bingo...perfect call, guys. Wood is an amazing material. I sometimes marvel at how different the book matched backs can look from one side to the other with such a small amount of material removed from between to two pieces. You may have to really look to determine that it is indeed book matched. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | BlackOps is pretty accurate. Think of all he said as a big scale where everything is relative to each other. That relation doesn't change but in the overall they can slide left or right as needed for production and what is available. I also suspect that this happened more in "the old days" because retail prices were lower. Today's customer is more demanding and as prices rise above $2000 and $5000 (well, not Ovations) or over $10,000 he has every right to be very picky.
Think of it as grading tests on a curve, remember that from school? |
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Location: Rocky River, Ohio | On a somewhat related subject....
What's the proper term (or buzz word) for the way the wood reflects in certain light. tough to explain, but my 1980 Legend has this beautiful sheen when the light hits it at certain angles. It's as if the top lights up with different patterns, like diamonds. this effect is not present in my 2000 legend.
both are natural tops. Not sure if aging brings this out more, or if it's locked in when the clearcoat is applied.
Thought someone called a top like that as having a lot of "silk" ???
Any ideas? |
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| It's called silking. If a top is perfectly quarter-sawn, these rays, or stripes, run perpendicular to the grain. This is very desirable in a guitar top, and looks much better than bearclaw, in my opinion. Of course, this is a totally different subject. One has nothing to do with the other. |
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Location: ranson,wva | my(now noel's) 1981 1624-4 has a perfect matched top untill you look at it from the side with the light sheen hitting it right,then it looks like the trebel side of the top set is about 3 shadeds darker more like a aged ceader than stika spruce....jason |
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| I would call that a definite case of run-out. |
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| Every guitar top that I have seen with severe run-out will not show any signs of silking, an indication that the top was not properly quartersawn. One side of the top will look much darker than the other when viewing it at different angles. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | FD14- #39...
Has 14 rings per inch measured from widest-lower-bout center "bookmatch" line...
Rings get tighter going out...
39 rings per inch measured from the widest part of the lower bout from inside edge of purfling.
No wonder. |
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Ovation Top Grading