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Location: Bluffton, SC | Thoughts, hopes and prayers go out to all those affected by the tragedy that happened in Virginia today. I know it's probably a little too much to hope for that none of you or your loved ones ever experience a truly senseless act such as this one but I'm going to say a prayer for it tonight nonetheless.
Tonight kiss your wives, your kids and your significant others. No matter what tomorrow brings, you'll be glad you did. |
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Location: ranson,wva | i just read about the shooting in blacksburg at the virginia tech campus....thats a terriable thing....jason |
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Location: Up North | Taking a knee for all those affected. words seem entirely inadequate. |
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Location: Hicksville, NY | It was around 4 p.m. when I heard of the news for the first time ... I just finished a session with a child, and was driving on my way to my next student's home when I turned the radio on NPR. Given the explanations and testimonies by the reporters, officials, and witnesses, it sounds terrible and horrible.
My sympathies and condolences to the victims' families and loved ones... |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Having a kid away at college is scary. Having kids is scary. They just arrested a kid here who had been going around the West, killing his boyhood friends because they were "messing with his aura." My daughter's boyfriend was at a party in Portland and witnessed a murder. Some kid pulled out a gun and shot another kid in the head. No fight or any warning before hand. The kid acted like he didn't realize that people die. There seems to be a lack of respect for life.
I am offended at the media accusations already that the cops should have shut down campus after the first shooting. I can't imagine any reasonable person anticipating that even a double murder would escalate into a rampage. |
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Location: Marlton, NJ | Mark - you're absolutely right - having kids is scary. Once they're out of the house doing whatever - they're totally out of our control and protection. We can only hope that whatever we've tried to teach them has sunk in and common sense will prevail. Of course common sense had nothing to do with what happened today. I for one am glad that the weather forced all three of my kids schools to be closed today and that they were home with me. |
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Location: East Tennessee | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
I am offended at the media accusations already that the cops should have shut down campus after the first shooting. I can't imagine any reasonable person anticipating that even a double murder would escalate into a rampage. I agree but they will look for someone,(besides the shooter), to put the blame on.
This is a tragedy and my prayers go out to the families of the victims. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Not to belittle the situation... This is a terrible thing!
Everyone is looking for a reason, (like this person's logic would make anyone feel better).
Too many video games!
No! really... Think about it.
I'm not advocating banning video games, but for some people with a psychopathic leaning, who cannot empathize with others feelings, the people a just targets. Some folks have a tenuous grasp on reality, anyway. And for them, life is a game, and there is a reset button... Or so they believe.
These are the childish thoughts that go like, "Their gonna miss me when I'm gone" and "I'll show them" and the winner, "I'll be Famous!" |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Completely senseless. The Oklahoma City bombing changed the way we address facility security in government buildings. The Columbine tragedy here in Colorado changed the way high schools view the need for safety and security. This will undoubtedly do the same for colleges and universities. However, no matter how hard we try, we cannot create a shield big enough and strong enough to protect the innocent from such senseless acts. The answer is not easy. |
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Location: New South Wales, Australia | "Imagine all the people living life in peace"...John Lennon
This is a terrible terrible thing. Our thoughts are with all those who lost loved ones, and with all the parents in the world. |
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Location: Central Florida | My heart and prayers go out to everyone and their famililies afffected by this senseless act... God be with them all.
And I have to agree with Old Man Arthur, I think violent video games really have gone a long way towards desensitising many young people with regard to the sanctity of life. |
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Location: south east Michigan | I just can't understand how someone can sustain that amount of rage over that period of time while inflicting so much damage.
About a month ago my son Dustin made a career choice to go to college for Criminal Justice. He does not want to be a patrol officer but his studies can lead him into the boarder patrol, insurance fraud and airport or casino security. Turns out that the CIA recruits from the school he is looking into.
It's sad to say but it looks like he has choosen a "growth industry". |
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Location: SE Michigan | What a sad waste of lives. I agree that violent video games are a bad influence. But take it a step further. Look at all the violent and death-glorifying content on television and at the movies.
Look at the most popular television shows: Law & Order: Special Victim's Unit, Cold Case, C-S-I: Crime Scene Investigation, Without a Trace, etc. How much blood and how many dead bodies has a kid seen on TV by the time they are 15?
As a society we wallow like pigs at the trough of gratuitous violence. We celebrate blood, guns and death. Using force to redress grievences has become the American way. And then we sit around looking puzzled, and offer prayers of condolence when some unstable individual takes things a bit too far. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Desensitizing? Have you seen a quentin tarantino movie? How about the chappelle show? How about snoop doggy dog? I could make a list as long as my arm of so called "leaders", "performers" in our country who have coarsened us. Video games are just a symptom of a deeper sickness. Why do we let them do it?
As to the actual case, as I understand it, the guy's a naturalized alien, so he partook of a culture that wasn't exclusively american. So to imply it's solely our culture is wrong. Could be world wide. What's going on in Dafur? What's going on Iraq? Is the coarsening of society connected to events oversears?
Could be he was just crazy and got a hold of a gun. We don't know yet. So many questions and so few answers. |
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Location: SoCal | If we're going to be placing blame, let's also mention the breakup of families in this country (hell, and around the world). Young men grow up without fathers and don't know how to act.
But Rick is right. We don't know yet what caused this tragedy. Until we do, we're all (myself included), just venting on what's wrong with society...
Damn. |
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Location: NJ | People (for whatever reason) just sometimes "snap".
It's unfortunate (and often tragic), but it "happens" (and will unfortunately continue to do so).
In 1966, television and movies were (relatively) tame and video games were in the somewhat distant future.
That didn't stop Charles Whitman from hauling a footlocker full of firepower up a University clocktower, killing 15 and wounding 31.
It's an extreme tragedy nonetheless . . . |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | As there will be poor with us always, so will there be the sick. Fortunately we have the generous, the funny, the reliable, and thousands of others who hopelessly outnumber them.
All in all, it's still the best of all possible worlds. (With the possible exception of the Planet of Naked Women.) |
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Location: SE Michigan | Charles Whitman was found to have a severe brain tumor at his autopsy. It was thought that this greatly affected his brain's ability to function.
It's true that things like this have happened throughout history, it just seems to be getting more and more common.
And I concede that maybe it's not completely an American phenominon, however the U.S. certainly seems to be at the vanguard of psycho-rampage style violence. |
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Location: Warren,Pa. | My wife has worked for the Fed. Bureau of Prisons for 18 years. Ove r the course of that time, the BOP has been building prisons as fast as they possibly can to accomadate the "growing inmate population." They can not keep up.
John <>{ |
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Location: NJ | Whitman's tumor theory was later discredited.
You're right, it HAS indeed become more and more prevalent, in recent years.
The Billy Joel song "Pressure" comes to mind.
Oftimes, there are those that unfortunately just succumb to it.
I haven't read through all the details, but wasn't there some "theory" that the intial shootings may have stemmed from some type of urequited love, or something like that?? |
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Location: Bluffton, SC | Initially it was thought to be a response to failed relationship. I jhaven't heard if any other potential reason has surfaced or not but, unfortunately, you're right, Cliff - sometimes people just "snap" and I don't think anyone really ever knows in these instances, it could have been the mail was 10 minutes late. |
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Location: NJ | ". . I Don't Like Mondays . ." |
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Location: big island | sanctity of/for life becomes a non-issue in a world where its young people are taught they are simply a matter of chance and not children of a Loving Creator. the tendency towards violence in any form, but especially as "entertainment", is merely a symptom of the deep void in the value of life.
if we allow our children to be exposed to the idea that there exists a Loving Creator and that human life is not an "accident" merely occurring through an evolutionary process, the mind and spirit are elevated to respect all life, our own and the lives of others. |
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Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | Well-said Lanaki. |
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Location: Central Florida | Originally posted by an4340:
Desensitizing? Have you seen a quentin tarantino movie? How about the chappelle show? How about snoop doggy dog? I could make a list as long as my arm of so called "leaders", "performers" in our country who have coarsened us. Video games are just a symptom of a deeper sickness. I've never seen a Quinton Tarantino movie, nor have I watched the Chappelle show or listened to Snoop Dog, but I'm aware of all three and what they represent, and that's why I don't give them my attention.
I was simply agreeing with a point that was made in an earlier post. I wasn't singling out video games as the sole ill of what's wrong us (humankind) as a people, nor was I trying suggest any theories as to what set off that kook in VA. I was simply agreeing with another posters observation. I also agree wholeheartedly with you that we've become an extremely coarse society. And, like you, I could laundry list hundreds of symptoms / causes / reasons for this. I also think Moody brought up an excellent point; the breakdown of the family and parents that are afraid to be parents. |
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Location: Central Florida | Originally posted by Lanaki:
sanctity of/for life becomes a non-issue in a world where its young people are taught they are simply a matter of chance and not children of a Loving Creator. the tendency towards violence in any form, but especially as "entertainment", is merely a symptom of the deep void in the value of life.
if we allow our children to be exposed to the idea that there exists a Loving Creator and that human life is not an "accident" merely occurring through an evolutionary process, the mind and spirit are elevated to respect all life, our own and the lives of others. Wonderful post, Lanaki. |
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| "if we allow our children to be exposed to the idea that there exists a Loving Creator and that human life is not an "accident" merely occurring through an evolutionary process, the mind and spirit are elevated to respect all life, our own and the lives of others."
Complete bollocks.
Explain The Crusades, the current world-wide Muslim uprising, the Salem witch trials, the Holocaust. Belief in a "Loving Creator " has only ever inspired people to kill other people who believe in a different "Loving Creator".
Only Buddhists have taken the message to heart. Anybody says different is lying through their teeth. The devoutest of Americans would subscribe to what Lanaki says and then claim that Virginia Tech had nothing to do with gun availability. Have the courage of your convictions or don't post sanctimonius crap. |
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| God is not the problem. The crusades where not God's idea, Muslim uprising's are not God's idea, the witch trials were not God's idea, and the holocaust was not God's idea. But God does have spiritual enemies who tempt the heart of man to do things such as ocurred at VA Tech yesterday. We can outlaw all the guns on the planet, but it will not change the heart of man... |
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| A man with a bad heart can't shoot 32 people. A man with a gun can. |
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Location: Up North | Schroeder, anyone can claim "this is the reason why it happened". But how can you make sense of a senseless act?
I do agree with you that through the ages there has been far too much killing in the name of religion.
Gun availability hasn't stopped mass killings in countries like Canada or the UK (L'Ecole Polytechnique or the Hungerford massacre for instance). Where there's a will... |
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Location: NJ | ". . Where there's a Will..."
Please, . . let's NOT bring Lawyers into this one! . .. |
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Location: Marlton, NJ | schroeder - what does teaching children that they "come from a loving creator" have to do with all of the despicable things that you mentioned? All of those events were the result of some person or group in power with an agenda. They use that power to their own means. You can take all of that away and the notion of a loving creator still exists - or even a non-loving creator. Whatever form of loving creator Randy talks about is irrelevent. Everyone has their own interpretation. What gives you the right to call him a liar? Are you the ultimate authority on religion? You've pretty much insulted most people of faith, americans and Randy in particular all in one post... good job. |
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Location: big island | aloha schroeder,
i am speaking of a belief that impacts and transforms the heart of an individual not mere lip-service to some idealogy that becomes skewed away from the Creator's intent as is evidenced through the human tragedies you mention.
TRUE belief in a Loving Creator leads one to esteem others better than himself and causes him to consider "whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure. whatsoever things are lovely and are of good report and are virtuous."
mankind has misrepresented God's character throughout the ages bolstered by the opposing force. there is indeed a Great Controversy going on and it is between the forces of good and evil.
in this life we've been granted we will see evidence of both sides and decide for ourselves which one we will subscribe and cling to.
good music played on ovation guitars is but a glimpse of heaven. |
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Location: New South Wales, Australia | Originally posted by Lanaki:
good music played on ovation guitars is but a glimpse of heaven. So true Randy. I've said it before......if every child was given a guitar at birth there might be less hate and bloodshed in the world.
I'm not religious but I do have respect and love for my fellow man, and even bad music (in my case) played on an Ovation is a spiritual experience. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Here's an interesting fact: Murder and suicide rate among athiests is lower than in any other known relegion. Explain that!
But let's not get this discussion sidetracked. I feel absolutely aweful about this tragedy. Especially having college age kids myself living far away from home. It could have just as easily been them.
I wish that Al Sharpton was an engineering student at Va Tech.
Dave |
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Location: big island | Originally posted by schroeder:
A man with a bad heart can't shoot 32 people. A man with a gun can. a man with a bad heart doesn't necessarily have to have a gun to kill 32 people. he will find other means. the gun is not the issue.
government sponsored gun control will remove guns from men with good hearts and the man with the bad heart will still find one if he wants to. |
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Location: big island | Originally posted by Tupperware:
Here's an interesting fact: Murder and suicide rate among athiests is lower than in any other known relegion. Explain that
Dave first, i think this info is very skewed by an agenda and secondly, i reiterate "TRUE belief..." |
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Location: south east Michigan | It is very unfair to lump Lanaki with those who have hi-jacked a faith and used it to their own ends.
If I may make the assumption I beleive Lanaki, like myself and others here, are trying to teach a belief system that in the end boils down to the OFC motto. Be Kind To Eachother! My main responsibilty is to make sure my children are let loose on the world with a good sense of right & wrong... good & evil.
Personally, I don't care what form of belief or NON-belief is used just as long as we have half a chance of ending up on the same page.
edit:
are trying to teach a belief system By this I mean within our own house. As I conduct myself out in the wide world I can only hope that I conduct myself in a way that a person of any faith or any NON-faith would find worth if friendship. |
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Location: south east Michigan | ..WORTHY OF friendship..
darn edit time! |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Mark and Dave mentioned having kids in college,I have a kid in college too,He`s studying Jura,and his reaction to the dreadful news was that of anger, and I sense anger in schroeder`s comment,and I too ,fail to see that children who have been wronged,or did not receive love or were not told of Jesus,are more prone to crime,and it is much easier to kill with a gun,but I also sense a defiance with the american crowd,to them I say,do not feel guilty,there was nothing that you could have done to prevent that from happening,look,in danmark people in general do not have firearms,yet,in 1994 a similarity occurred at the university of Aarhus ( DK),student walked into the uni`s canteen,fired several times,two female students down,several wounded,perpetrator committed suicide,it does happen outside the USA , so, now we mourn, and then let us find out how we can stop a crazy maniac from harming us !!
Vic |
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Location: Tennessee | Originally posted by cliff:
". . I Don't Like Mondays . ." Sir Bob's words once again give pause to reflect. |
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| You are all wilfully misreading me.
I did not say that a belief in a "Loving Creator" means you belive in murder.
Read it again.
What I said was that belief in a "Loving Creator" is absolutely no guarantee that you won't commit murder.
The Crusaders believed they were doing the right thing - the current wave of Muslim suicide-bombers believe without a doubt that they are doing God's will. The Salem elders believed they were doing right. The medieval witch-finders of England believed they were doing right. And so it goes.
The way an intellectual argument works is that you propose a statemnent ("if you teach children about a Loving Creator") and I counter it with an argument that negates that fact. It's how all universities teach and have taught for the last thousand years. With all due respect nothing anybody has written remotely approaches my argument. I have cast no doubts or insults at anybody's beliefs. My children attend church EVERY week and are very active in our church. I have never attempted to take them away from their beliefs, nor would I ever do such a thing.
I state, clearly and openly, that a declared belief in a "Loving Creator" does not in any way stop mass, random murder; nor does it stop premeditated mass murder on the grounds of truly held beliefs.
I have no arguments that could be refuted in any department of Philosophy in any Western Country. If you can't make an intellectual case for yourself, bow out. Whether or not I am anti-religious is somethinmg you can't infer from anything I have written.
What I object to is academically retarded arguments that have no respect for the meaning of words. If you can't defend your belief in an acceptable manner, don't bother. From Erasmus to Desmond Tutu there is a perfectly easy argument to make for faith. If ypou're too stupid to make it, don't try. It is that simple. There are departments of theology in almost every university in the world. It doesn't take a half-baked apologist on a guitar site to dream up an argument to defend the Crusades or anything else. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Thanks to those who have attempted to keep this on topic, which is about the tragedy that happened. I received an email from a friend in that area who attended classes in the places where this occurred, and for him, it just hit a little close to home.
As this has nothing really to do with guitars, and it seems to have run it's course I am freezing this thread. It's a good read, but there is nothing else to say that hasn't already been said. |
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VA Tragedy