FOUR DEAD IN OHIO
rick endres
Posted 2007-05-04 5:32 PM (#101901)
Subject: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
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Posts: 616

Location: cincinnati, ohio
Thirty-seven years ago today. I'm gonna play the song tonight -- don't care if it ticks anybody off.

May 5th, 1970 -- I was down at the University of Cincinnati to go to class. A desk flew from a third story window, landed at my feet. Missed turning me into a grease spot by four inches.
I went home. Classes were cancelled for the rest of the year.

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times..."
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alpep
Posted 2007-05-04 5:38 PM (#101902 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
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Posts: 10583

Location: NJ
saw that on the news today.

I remember reading it in the paper and saying to my dad "the only reason you want me to go to college is so they shoot me"

yes they were troubled times in more way than one
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schroeder
Posted 2007-05-04 5:49 PM (#101903 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
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Posts: 4413

I almost posted this before you guys were awake, but decided it was your right to mention it not mine.
It made a huge impression on me at the time (I was 19)- I realise now it was a part-time soldier who panicked, but at the time it seemed like the war machine was going to rule the world. It was doubly tragic that it happened in the country where freedom of speech is enshrined in the constitution. A pointless waste of young life.
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Waskel
Posted 2007-05-04 6:10 PM (#101904 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO



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It had nothing to do with freedom of speech. It was a riot started to protest the war, building on looting that had begun 3 days earlier by drunk bikers.
Buildings had been set on fire, the protest had been banned from fear for public safety, the students were legally ordered to disperse, and instead they attacked Americans whose job it was to protect them.

Senseless, yes.
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schroeder
Posted 2007-05-04 6:27 PM (#101905 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


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Posts: 4413

I'm not defending what went before.
But the guys who died were unarmed and were shot by panicking guardsmen.
It made a great impression all around the world.
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ProfessorBB
Posted 2007-05-04 6:30 PM (#101906 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO



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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains
It was a very tough time for me as I was both a full-time college student and an enlisted member in the National Guard.
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bgm2000
Posted 2007-05-04 6:48 PM (#101907 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
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Posts: 109

Location: Alabama
There was a story on msnbc a few days ago about a reel to reel tape made by a college student on which another person says he can hear an order to fire and is selling cd copies. Also he wants the FBI to listen to the tape using all the latest advances in technology. I'll try to find the link this weekend. It is going to be a fun one here with (hopefully appreciated) Cheap Trick playing tonight. Tomorrow the Barenaked Ladies.
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cliff
Posted 2007-05-04 7:25 PM (#101908 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
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Posts: 14842

Location: NJ
A good friend of mine was there (as a student) at the time.
His roommate was the guy who took the (now) famous photo of the girl crying over her slain classmate. He showed me an album of prints taken from those very rolls of film. That particular image was published because of it's composition/impact.
There were a LOT of alternate shots taken of that same particular scene (and others).
Pretty "chilling" to witness something you've heard so much about during your life "unfold" before you in 8x10 b&w images . . .
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Mark in Boise
Posted 2007-05-04 9:08 PM (#101909 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


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Posts: 12761

Location: Boise, Idaho
That has to be one of the century's most famous pictures. It kind of ended the thought of joining the guard in order to avoid Vietnam for a lot of us.
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Beal
Posted 2007-05-04 9:12 PM (#101910 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO



Joined:
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Posts: 14127

Location: 6 String Ranch
37 years. Where's the time go?
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45flint
Posted 2007-05-04 9:39 PM (#101911 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
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Posts: 555

Location: Wooster, Ohio
Was a freshman at Miami of Ohio at the time, sent us home. Visited Kent State several years ago after visiting a client. Had a change to see the place that kind of sticks in your mind from the pictures. Really took me back to that time, affected me more than I thought it would.
Steve
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fillhixx
Posted 2007-05-04 10:06 PM (#101912 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO



Joined:
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Posts: 4833

Location: Campbell River, British Columbia
Originally posted by 45flint:
..... at Miami of Ohio
That would be, what? The Cuban Quarter of Ohio?
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Jeff W.
Posted 2007-05-04 10:08 PM (#101913 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


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Posts: 11039

Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub
Say Allo Too My Leetle Frennnd!
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rick endres
Posted 2007-05-04 11:56 PM (#101914 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
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Posts: 616

Location: cincinnati, ohio
That would be, what? The Cuban Quarter of Ohio?fillhixx
Miami of Ohio is in Oxford, Ohio, north of Cincinnati, and about twenty minutes from my front door. It's a picturesque little college town that, on the surface, seems to be stuck in the Fifties.

Maybe not such a bad idea, actually.

Well, I played the song tonight at the country club. CSNY's "Ohio," in honor of the anniversary. Weren't a whole lot of boomers in the audience -- mostly 30 somethings -- but, surprisingly, they all sang along. I made it the last song of a set, because I knew I'd need a little time to get over it. Still get chills when I hear it.

No matter whose fault it was or how it happened, May 4th, 1970, was a pivotal date in the 20th Century. After Kent State, most people my age felt like it was "Us against Them." The "establishment," Nixon -- it seemed they were trying to kill us, either by sending us to Southeast Asia or just "gunning us down" on our campuses.

Still feels that way -- except they're not shooting at us now; they're just trying to drive us to the poorhouse! Gasoline is $3.19 a gallon in Cincinnati, O-hi-o, on May 4th, 2007. :(
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Dr.Tom
Posted 2007-05-05 10:13 PM (#101915 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
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Posts: 302

Location: Buffalo,NY
It really brings back memories for me. I had 2 brothers attending Kent Stae at the time : one in ROTC and the other a consciencious objector.

At family get togethers many years after the tragedy, I used to tell the story that I had two brothers at Kent State at the time, one was in the ROTC bldg and the other was trying to burn it down. This was not a truthful story but it was made to exagerate the differences in opinion. The amazing thing is both of those brothers respected each others choice and remained close all of their lives.

Regards,

Tom
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guitarwannabee
Posted 2007-05-06 11:10 AM (#101916 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
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Posts: 1487

Location: Michigan
I can still remember clearly the picture of the girl putting flowers into the gun barrels of the National guardsmen as they stood at attention.GWB
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2007-05-06 4:59 PM (#101917 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO



Joined:
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
Originally posted by Dr.Tom:
It really brings back memories for me. I had 2 brothers attending Kent Stae at the time : one in ROTC and the other a consciencious objector.
...The amazing thing is both of those brothers respected each others choice and remained close all of their lives.

Regards,

Tom
I'm an Draft-Dodgin' Army Brat. Born at Ft. Campbell, KY. My (blood) Father did three tours.
I was at The Capitol with Coretta Scott King, Country Joe and the Vietnam Veterans Against The War in '71, wearing one of my Father's Dress Major's uniform jackets... My long hair, his oak leaf, name tag, campaign ribbons and all. He was "In Country".
[My Father heard some crap from his superiors about that, cuz the Feds got pictures of everybody!]
We weren't protesting the Troops! We we SUPPORTING them. We were protesting the War! We just wanted everybody Home! Either win the War, or Come Home! It was a Civil War, that we had no business interfering in. (Sound Familiar?)
We welcomed the vets home, and tried to help them out when they hit the dirt over a backfire or a jack-hammer. They are our Brothers!
If there was a draft today, this war would be over!
An All-Volunteer Army means that only the Poor, and Career Military go. (And sub-contractors, who make more money than our troops!)
The Rich-F@cks are just watching their Haliburton stock go up.

Excuse the rant...

Add on-- BTW I hear Vietnam is doing just fine since we left.
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FlicKreno aka Solid Top
Posted 2007-05-06 5:05 PM (#101918 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


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Posts: 2491

Location: Copenhagen Denmark
Ain`t that the TRUTH !!...( samo overhere though )
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FlicKreno aka Solid Top
Posted 2007-05-06 5:09 PM (#101919 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
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Posts: 2491

Location: Copenhagen Denmark
( could not edit anymore )

(Q OMA ) " It was a Civil War, that we had no business interfering in. (Sound Familiar?) "

Ain`t that the TRUTH !!.....(samo overhere though )
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2007-05-06 5:30 PM (#101920 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO



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Posts: 10777

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
Image upload ain't working. So Click here

I'm getting this for a friend of mine...
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FlicKreno aka Solid Top
Posted 2007-05-06 6:24 PM (#101921 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
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Posts: 2491

Location: Copenhagen Denmark
"I'm getting this for a friend of mine..."


Which one ?....the natural ?

(Gotta get a gallery together 1 o`these days...)

Vic :cool:
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Omaha
Posted 2007-05-06 7:09 PM (#101922 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
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Posts: 1126

Location: Omaha, NE
Originally posted by cliff:
A good friend of mine was there (as a student) at the time.
His roommate was the guy who took the (now) famous photo of the girl crying over her slain classmate.
My name ("Jeff Miller") is pretty common. I run into it all the time. But the strangest one ever was from that event...the guy lying on the sidewalk with the girl crying over his was also named "Jeff Miller".

FWIW, the girl in the photo was not a student. She was a 14 year old runaway named Mary Ann Vecchio.
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rick endres
Posted 2007-05-07 8:51 AM (#101923 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
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Posts: 616

Location: cincinnati, ohio
My name ("Jeff Miller") is pretty common. I run into it all the time. But the strangest one ever was from that event...the guy lying on the sidewalk with the girl crying over his was also named "Jeff Miller". by Omaha
Man, that's creepy. Like looking at your own tombstone.
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Northcountry
Posted 2007-05-07 10:18 AM (#101924 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 2487

One of the songs I have on my set list. I play it all the time. Does not matter if you agree with it's sentiments or not..... it makes a great statement and it is a piece of political and American history that should never be forgotten.

I just like to thump that bass note through the amp. It is a fun and very easy song to play. Always gets applause.......well except for those dead/zombie crowd type gig's. Hope ya played it loud!

Randy
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FlicKreno aka Solid Top
Posted 2007-05-07 10:31 AM (#101925 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
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Posts: 2491

Location: Copenhagen Denmark
....Ehr...What Song is that people are talkin`about..??....( forgive me for being an ignorant pleb ) :)

Vic
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FlicKreno aka Solid Top
Posted 2007-05-07 11:31 AM (#101926 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


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Posts: 2491

Location: Copenhagen Denmark
..No-one wants to tell me..??!....is it "We Shall Overcome"..?

Vic
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Omaha
Posted 2007-05-07 11:33 AM (#101927 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
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Posts: 1126

Location: Omaha, NE
Originally posted by Enfant Terrible aka V-Elite:
What Song is that people are talkin`about..??
"Ohio" by Crosby, Stills and Nash.
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rick endres
Posted 2007-05-07 11:35 AM (#101928 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
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Posts: 616

Location: cincinnati, ohio
"Ohio," by Neil Young, recorded as a single by Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young in response to the fatal shooting of four college students by National Guardsmen at Kent State University in Ohio. It was included on the compilation CD "So Far," by CSNY.

This tab from www.hyperrust.org is the best acoustic tab I've seen for the song.

Chords/Tabulature for
Ohio


Chords:
D5 D F C(I) C(II) Gm7(I) Gm7(II)
D|---0-----0------x-----x-----x------3------0----|
B|---3-----10-----1-----1-----8------3------3----|
G|---2-----0------2-----0-----0------3------0----|
D|---0-----12-----3-----2-----10-----3------0----|
A|---0-----x------x-----3-----x------5------5----|
D|---0-----12-----x-----x-----10-----5------5----|

Main riff:
D5 F C(I) D5 F C(I)
D|-------------------------|-------------------------|
B|--3----3--3--------------|--3----3--3--------------|
G|--0h2--2--0-----0--------|--0h2--2--0-----0--------|
D|-------------3--------0--|-------------3-----------|
A|-------------------3-----|-------------------3-----|
D|-------------------------|-------------------------|

Verse:
D5 F C(I)
Tin soldiers and Nixon coming,
D5 F C(I)
We're finally on our own
D5 F C(I)
This Summer I hear them drumming,
D5 F C(I)
Four dead in Ohio

Chorus:
Gm7(I) C(I)
Gotta get down to it, soldiers are cutting us down
Gm7(II) C(II)
Should have been done long ago
Gm7(I) C(I)
What if you knew her and, found her dead on the ground
Gm7(II) C(II)
How can you run when you know?
D

(main riff)

Verse:
La la la la, la la, la la
La la la la, la la, la
La la la la, la la, la la
La la la la, la la, la

Chorus

Repeat Verse 1
repeating last line as often as you feel happy with.
Finish on D5
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Waskel
Posted 2007-05-07 11:59 AM (#101929 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO



Joined:
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Posts: 11840

Location: closely held secret
My apologies, Miles, Al... I can't let this one go unopposed. Delete my post, delete the thread, do what you must.

Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
We weren't protesting the Troops! We we SUPPORTING them. We were protesting the War! We just wanted everybody Home! Either win the War, or Come Home! It was a Civil War, that we had no business interfering in. (Sound Familiar?)
We welcomed the vets home, and tried to help them out when they hit the dirt over a backfire or a jack-hammer. They are our Brothers!
That explains the egg throwing, spitting and cries of 'baby killers' that greeted our soldiers returning from Vietnam. Such as my brother. Believe me, they didn't feel supported. The same way today's soldiers don't feel supported by today's 'concerned' protesters.

Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
If there was a draft today, this war would be over!
An All-Volunteer Army means that only the Poor, and Career Military go. (And sub-contractors, who make more money than our troops!)
The Rich-F@cks are just watching their Haliburton stock go up.
“You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you can do well. If you don’t you get stuck in Iraq.”
- Senator John Kerry
Now THAT's what I call support! Our soldiers are not only baby killers, they're idiots as well. How friggin hypocritical can you get. Some of our finest young men and women are putting their lives on the line every hour, and you arrogantly insult and demean them??

Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
Either win the War, or Come Home! It was a Civil War, that we had no business interfering in. (Sound Familiar?)
You don't know your history. We were WINNING the war... until the Democrats stirred up the radicals into forming protests to embarrass the Republicans. They 'defunded' our troops (as they would do today, but don't have the guts to), smeared them unjustly in the press, leaving them no alternative but to withdraw. Does that sound familiar?
By the way, certain Demos, including Kerry, managed to turn huge profits by negotiating oil deals with the North Vietnamese government after the war... Haliburton could take lessons from them.
It wasn't a civil war, any more than Iraq is. Communist China was the primary agent behind the North Vietnamese aggression.

Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
Add on-- BTW I hear Vietnam is doing just fine since we left.
Sure. Thirty years later.
Following the fall of Saigon more than one million South Vietnamese were either massacred or thrown into prison (euphemistically called “re-education camps”), where many were tortured and starved to death. Often their only crime was owning property or allowing a family member to leave the country.
Didn't hear about that on CBS, did ya?


Sorry, OMA. You've been drinking the kool-aid too long. Start thinking for yourself and try getting your information from somewhere other than the news re-mixers. You might be surprised at what's 'really' going on in the world.

In the meantime please stop insulting people who DO have the guts (which you, or I, for that matter didn't show when we had the chance) to step up and protect our country.
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Weaser P
Posted 2007-05-07 12:20 PM (#101930 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 5332

Location: Bluffton, SC
...click...
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fillhixx
Posted 2007-05-07 12:23 PM (#101931 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO



Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 4833

Location: Campbell River, British Columbia
\]
Oh goody!
Americans fighting over songs written by Canadians!
What will it be next?
The Night They Drove Old Dixue Down?
or If I Had A Rocket Launcher?
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cliff
Posted 2007-05-07 12:30 PM (#101932 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
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Posts: 14842

Location: NJ
fill;
Can y'work the "Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" into an Al-Qaida plot??
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Omaha
Posted 2007-05-07 12:30 PM (#101933 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 1126

Location: Omaha, NE
These events are really just vessels that we fill with our own ideas of how things are and how things ought to be.

I always wondered why there weren't any popular songs written about Ruby Ridge.
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fillhixx
Posted 2007-05-07 12:37 PM (#101934 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO



Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 4833

Location: Campbell River, British Columbia
Originally posted by cliff:
"Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald"
Way to wreck a good mood, Cliff!
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Tony Calman
Posted 2007-05-07 12:38 PM (#101935 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO



Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 4619

Location: SoCal
Wabbit, well said.

For the record, I joined the Marines 4/04/68.
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Waskel
Posted 2007-05-07 12:43 PM (#101936 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO



Joined:
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Location: closely held secret
Originally posted by Tony Calman:
For the record, I joined the Marines 4/04/68.
And for that I thank you, Tony.
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FlicKreno aka Solid Top
Posted 2007-05-07 5:34 PM (#101937 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
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Posts: 2491

Location: Copenhagen Denmark
Now WABBIT,I`m Surprised about your reaction,there`s No glory in war,soldiers are No romantic poets,and many have been killed in war,soldiers and civilians alike,I have had Soldier-friends who served there(Vietnam),those ,who were lucky enough to survive the guns and came back,only to perish later of agent orange,None of them thought of themselves as "Heroes",and as far as being treated badly,well ,they all had a few words to say about treatment by the government,Bernie told me about getting a "nine-month tuition offer" on a GI bill,and that would be it,then He was on his own,and.. USA had lost-out in Vietnam,does not really matter who was behind it,and I do not see anybody "winning" in Iraq,...But...I Do See a Lot of Hardship looming on the horizon,in my Opinion ,Arthur was not "attacking" any-one,merely described a rotten situation,now I understand that you are busy ,and work hard ,but if you can take a moment to watch : "the Killing Fields"....or..."Full Metal Jacket"...those are epics that are rather true to reality,as being pointed out by Marines that I`ve known Personally,yes,have...for most have buckled under due to....anyway Arthur is not the culprit ..
the Battle is Not here...

Vic
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FlicKreno aka Solid Top
Posted 2007-05-07 5:42 PM (#101938 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 2491

Location: Copenhagen Denmark
Thank you for the Song/Tab , Rick,I appreciate it :)

Vic
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Tony Calman
Posted 2007-05-07 6:48 PM (#101939 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO



Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 4619

Location: SoCal
"can take a moment to watch..."Full Metal Jacket".

Really enjoy the first 45 min or so, watched it again last night...hard ass DI which former DI R.Lee Ermey does so well.

That was not a time of peace and love, it was a time of anarchy. I sat in Univ. of Oregon classes having to study the writing of Nguyen Sinh Cung (Ho Chi Minh) and Mao Zedong (Tse-tung). And that was just in English Composition. It wasn't until years later (1973) when I took a grad class (War & Civilization) where we had one Marine (me), two Australian Army Officers, four Royal Marines, a former Ambassador, and six former flower children (one of which we found out later was a former member of the Weathermen). Facts were on the table, not slogans.

As now, this wasn't an isolated conflict...USSR and Chinese pilots and advisors, as well as equipment.

Interesting, at least to me, is that the most outspoken were those with the least facts and didn't vote. They loved challenging military wives and screaming at them about their husbands being baby killers. Couple instances of where a couple of Marines came nearby, they just crawled away. Four accosted my wife at church.

Where were the liberals - didn't hear them protesting the treatment of Vietnamese, Cambodian, and Laotian who were being slaughtered?

UCSD still has the Che Guevara Cafe.

OhhRah!
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Waskel
Posted 2007-05-07 7:09 PM (#101940 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO



Joined:
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Posts: 11840

Location: closely held secret
Vic, I really mean nothing personal here, but please don't use those condescending tones to tell me I should watch movies so I can see what reality was. I had a brother there for 16 months, and he described it all to clearly for me. Had the draft not been canceled, I would have shortly found out for myself.

We didn't 'lose-out' in Vietnam, we were sold out - and it's happening again.

Originally posted by Enfant Terrible aka V-Elite:
I do not see anybody "winning" in Iraq,...But...I Do See a Lot of Hardship looming on the horizon
Damn right. If we don't fight them there, we'll be fighting them here. But since my 'here' is not your 'here', I can see why you might not be as concerned.
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FlicKreno aka Solid Top
Posted 2007-05-07 7:37 PM (#101941 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 2491

Location: Copenhagen Denmark
WABBIT,I do Not Mean to be Condescending,and I do APOLOGIZE to You and Tony for coming across as such,I was Surprised for you being ,can I say " agressive"...?!..I know you ( here on the board ) as a rather intelligent person,..and I am Indignified to hear about Tony`s wife being acosted by COWARDS !!..WABBIT,overhere the situation is rather Unpleasant,Danish Military Is "Overthere" with American Troops,and ,yes, BodyBags Have Arrived in Danmark,People have thrown Molotov`s at the cops,Ethnic Clashes have ensued,I just pointed out those movies,for those ,who knew of those horrors Firsthand, told me,that those films depicted reality, as the reality that they had witnessed ,that`s all . :)

Vic
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Waskel
Posted 2007-05-07 9:05 PM (#101942 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO



Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 11840

Location: closely held secret
My apologies as well, Vic, and my condolences for the countrymen you've lost.
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MusicMishka
Posted 2007-05-07 9:45 PM (#101943 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 5567

Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
Tony, I joined the Marines in Dec. 71 after my draft number was 106 and the Army wanted me...I was an air traffic controller and flew with search and rescue...Lost many good friends. It took me until 1984 to be able to visit the Wall...one of the most moving things I ever encountered...I wrote a song...a true story of one of the 58,350+ names on the Wall named Robbie; we grew up near each other...I'll sing it at the Tour/Jam in CT. Took me awhile to deal with everything from the 60's/70's...Like Iraq, we had booby traps/mines to deal with there as well. My heart goes out to the Vets of Iraq...
"A Picture Paints a Thousand Words but Some Refuse to Pay Attention!"
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Northcountry
Posted 2007-05-07 10:38 PM (#101944 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 2487

Who's Edmund Fitzgerald, and how did he stop a terrorists plot? !

I need to know.
Hey could type nasty words in this thread because it ain't gonna be here much longer.

Ohio was and still is simply a song about an event that is a historical fact.

Anyones beliefs about that war or any war are mute.

The point is there are NO qualified historians who do not completely agree the national guard acted improperly that day and those, young, protesting americans died.

No matter what side of the argument you were on back then or now this incident is what it was....Tragic.....

CSN & Y (written by Young if I remember right)simply put it to music.
The song is great!

Like my Dad always told me; to "Forgive and Forget" is not wise............. we should "always TRY and forgive" this is humanity at it's finest but "NEVER FORGET" this is history. And it's record can be used to help us all to learn from and, hopefully, not repeat our mistakes!

Ohio is history in music. Play it loud and teach while you entertain!

Wow I did a rant! Kewel!
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Beggin
Posted 2007-05-07 10:55 PM (#101945 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
November 2006
Posts: 2241

Location: Simpsonville, SC
Mike,

Thanks for your always calm responses in heated matters. I hope that you will sing your song at the Blue Ridge get together too. I look forward to meeting you and your wife.

Jim
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2007-05-07 11:03 PM (#101946 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
Gee fellas... I didn't mean to piss Everybody off! :eek:
Politics, Religion and Sports... Start an argument everytime!
[and whether Taks are good for kindling]

Fillhixx-- "If I Had A Rocket Launcher" is a GOOD song!
Hadn't thought of it for awhile. Now I gotta look that up...
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FlicKreno aka Solid Top
Posted 2007-05-07 11:24 PM (#101947 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 2491

Location: Copenhagen Denmark
It was a Civilised Conversation among Civilised Men ,in an Uncivilised World....was that with a Z ??

Vic :cool:
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2007-05-07 11:59 PM (#101948 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
OMA Quoting self---
[Fillhixx-- "If I Had A Rocket Launcher" is a GOOD song!
Hadn't thought of it for awhile. Now I gotta look that up...]
Oooh, Oooh I found it! :cool:

I don't believe in guarded borders and I don't believe in hate
I don't believe in generals or their stinking torture states
And when I talk with the survivors of things too sickening to relate
If I had a rocket launcher
If I had a rocket launcher
If I had a rocket launcher
I would retaliate
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fillhixx
Posted 2007-05-08 1:32 AM (#101949 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO



Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 4833

Location: Campbell River, British Columbia
Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
I would retaliate
Danged peaceniks, eh?
;)

Best song ever on the subject

Look Me Up After The War
John Ims
(She's In Love With The Boy)
He played it at a seminar I attended.
Powerful stuff, but I can't find a link or lyrics....
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alpep
Posted 2007-05-08 8:56 AM (#101950 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583

Location: NJ
I am so ready to close this thread.....

songs don't kill people, people kill people.
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2007-05-08 9:08 AM (#101951 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
Politicians start the Wars...

And we argue about them...
As if our opinions had anything to do with their policy.

It's not about Right and Wrong.
It's about Power and Control!
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fillhixx
Posted 2007-05-08 11:48 AM (#101952 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO



Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 4833

Location: Campbell River, British Columbia
Originally posted by alpep:
I am so ready to close this thread.....
While I personally enjoy this kind of exchange, I completely understand it's inappropriateness in this environment. I'm not sure it's good for the long term atmosphere of the OFC.

Some of these comments are more emotionally charged than is good for a group that has another purpose completely.

....BUT!
Joke 'em if they can't take a ....!
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an4340
Posted 2007-05-08 11:59 AM (#101953 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389

Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands
Tin eared guitarists and the tour coming,
We're finally on our own.
This May I hear the strumming,
Four beers for al from the OFC!

Cheers!
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Grif
Posted 2007-05-08 12:23 PM (#101954 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 548

Location: Up North
Hey, a little disagreement is a good thing every now and again! that's how it's supposed to work, free speech and all that jazz.
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lanaki
Posted 2007-05-08 1:27 PM (#101955 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
October 2006
Posts: 5576

Location: big island
life isn't really "all about the O" as a commercial would have us believing...
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FlicKreno aka Solid Top
Posted 2007-05-08 4:06 PM (#101956 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 2491

Location: Copenhagen Denmark
(Quote FILLHIX )" While I personally enjoy this kind of exchange, I completely understand it's inappropriateness in this environment. I'm not sure it's good for the long term atmosphere of the OFC. "

I AGREE !!

Vic
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seesquare
Posted 2007-05-08 6:50 PM (#101957 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3666

Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire
I looked into the eyes of many men, back from Southeast Asia, in'74-'78, as a Psych Tech in the USAF. Many more from Desert Storm. Not particularly looking forward to Iraqi Freedom.
Not a political statement- a humanitarian one, certainly.
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Brian T
Posted 2007-05-08 8:38 PM (#101958 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 425

Location: SE Michigan
It is the duty of a soldier to obey the orders of his commanders. It is the duty of civilians to hold those leaders to account for the decisions they make and the quality of their leadership.

Also there are criminals, abusive, and misguided people on both sides of the debate, the peace-nicks harrassing military families, starting riots, burning buildings. But on the military side there is also abuse; Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse, the rape and murder of innocent people, the My-Lai massacre in Vietnam. On and on it goes.

The important thing to note is that the actions of a selected few individuals on either side of an argument do not validate nor invalidate the position that the seem to represent in the overall argument.
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lanaki
Posted 2007-05-08 8:50 PM (#101959 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
October 2006
Posts: 5576

Location: big island
the real culprits here are the international money lenders who profit on war. they have no national loyalty and simply loan money to one country to wage war against another country whom they have also loaned money for weapons to. they also instigate these wars on political and civilian levels. who does america own all those trillions of dollars (our national debt) to? the same few International Money Families, which is what IMF actually stands for.

they will all have their day in a galactic courtroom.
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Brian T
Posted 2007-05-08 8:55 PM (#101960 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 425

Location: SE Michigan
Also the lessons learned in Vietnam seem to have been forgotten. In Vietnam as in Iraq, the choices really come down to this:

(1) Kill everybody, or almost everybody, or at a minimum roll over the entire country in complete military dominance. Maybe use nukes. Kill them all and let god sort-em out.

(2) Win the hearts and minds of the people, get their support and slowly reform the country. Unfortunately using intensive military force doesnt win over most civilians. People get pissed at you when you bomb their cities and their children die fighting against you. It doesnt really matter if they are right or we are right, they will still hate us.

Vietnam should have taught us this lesson very clearly. But we seem hell-bent on repeating the past.
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an4340
Posted 2007-05-08 9:11 PM (#101961 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389

Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands
I got a better rhyme:

Tin eared guitarists and the tour coming,
We're finally on our own.
This May I hear the strumming,
Four beers at the Bloomfield O!
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cliff
Posted 2007-05-08 9:23 PM (#101962 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842

Location: NJ
Thanks.

We'll "call ya' " . . . .
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cliff
Posted 2007-05-10 11:30 AM (#101963 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842

Location: NJ
SOMEwhat On Topic:

If you're a Neil Young fan, I HIGHLY recommend the recently-released "Live at Massey Hall".

Strictly acoustic solo performance recorded in '71 (not long after "Ohio" was released, and right around the time of the "4WayStreet" CSN&Y tour). There are performances of JUST-written songs from "Harvest" that weren't even recorded yet.

Considering it's from 1971, it's a live show that was BRILLiantly recorded.

If you're a fan of GoldRush/Harvest-era NY, this is a must-have . . .
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Waskel
Posted 2007-05-10 11:35 AM (#101964 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO



Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 11840

Location: closely held secret
I'll check it out. Live Rust is one of my long-term favorites.
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cliff
Posted 2007-05-10 11:40 AM (#101965 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842

Location: NJ
Live at Massey Hall
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Northcountry
Posted 2007-05-10 12:25 PM (#101966 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 2487

I would like to see these guys do another great album before this run is over.
Thanks for the mention of the Live stuff Cliff, I did not know about this one.

Randy
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Waskel
Posted 2007-05-10 12:36 PM (#101967 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO



Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 11840

Location: closely held secret
You're right, Cliff. This is a great album! (listening to it now)
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Waskel
Posted 2007-05-10 1:30 PM (#101968 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO



Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 11840

Location: closely held secret
He does spend a lot of time tuning, doesn't he. Not changing tunings, just keeping it in tune.
Should'a played an O.
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cliff
Posted 2007-05-10 1:46 PM (#101969 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842

Location: NJ
Like a Martin's gonna' stay in tune . . . in Canada!!
(besides, how many times did YOU re-tune your guitar when you were stoned??)
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Waskel
Posted 2007-05-10 1:54 PM (#101970 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO



Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 11840

Location: closely held secret
Watching those vids I'm surprised he was able to stay in his chair.
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dvd
Posted 2007-05-10 1:55 PM (#101971 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO



Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 1889

Location: Central Massachusetts
Lots of tuning, but at least his in-between song commentary is amusing. I like the part where he nags about the cameras. Great album.
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Waskel
Posted 2007-05-10 2:09 PM (#101972 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO



Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 11840

Location: closely held secret
I had to laugh about the old man that came with his property when he bought it.
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FlicKreno aka Solid Top
Posted 2007-05-10 8:17 PM (#101973 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO


Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 2491

Location: Copenhagen Denmark
Thanks for the Link Cliff, I Appreciate it :)

Vic
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2007-05-10 9:43 PM (#101974 - in reply to #101901)
Subject: Re: FOUR DEAD IN OHIO



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
Originally posted by dvd:
Lots of tuning, but at least his in-between song commentary is amusing. I like the part where he nags about the cameras. Great album.
I gotta find me some clips from this...
But from what yose guys are saying, he was just stoned, and wanted something to do with his hands while he rambled.
I've seen a coupla clips of him, solo on stage, interacting with the audience while fumbling with a harmonica neck-brace and tuning... Yeah, he was stoned then too.
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